What punishment is appropriate?

JeffDG

JeffDG

Touchdown! Greaser!
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JeffDG
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/...l-with-webcam-helps-identify-1000-pedophiles/
A Dutch rights group said Monday it had identified over 1,000 paedophiles around the world by offering online sex with a computer-generated 10-year-old Filipina girl called Sweetie.
...
Within a 10-week period, over 20,000 predators from 71 countries approached Sweetie, asking for webcam sex performances.

In one exchange, a man named “Older4young”, identified as a 35-year-old father of two from Atlanta in the United States, asks Sweetie to undress for $10.

“Turn on your cam. I’m horny,” the man wrote.
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As the father of a 10 year old daughter, I can tell you, that castration with a dull rusty blade would be too good for these people.
 
I'm in the camp of dull, rusty knives. Roommates with the big dude in the jail cell, etc.

What amazes me is that these people are stupid enough as to engage in these online setups. It's been well-publicized how there are lots of operations to catch paedophiles. You'd think they'd see the news.
 
I'm thinking, nail his man parts to a pine stump close to a fire ant bed, and pour honey all over him. oh yeah, give him a very dull knife.
 
Just leave him with me....alone.....in my dental chair for 15 minutes......
 
Let him go we are too busy locking up pot smokers/sarcasm
 
painless said:
Just leave him with me....alone.....in my dental chair for 15 minutes......
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My watch doesn't keep very good time. Sometimes 15 minutes can last about 20 hours. That work for you?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My watch doesn't keep very good time. Sometimes 15 minutes can last about 20 hours. That work for you?
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:yes::yes::yes:

Damn, was I supposed to come back at 2:15 Eastern or Pacific...better make it Pacific to be sure.
 
See, I'd take a different approach - blow both his kneecaps out and then drag him through the streets behind a truck - fast enough to be exceedingly painful and slow enough not to kill him.
 
They need to figure out how to take the money first before busting these idiots. They give up a credit card, max it out. Wait and see if the jerks try to contest it.
 
denverpilot said:
They need to figure out how to take the money first before busting these idiots. They give up a credit card, max it out. Wait and see if the jerks try to contest it.
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"Thank you for your exceedingly generous donation to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children."
 
You got to be pretty desperate to have sex with a computer generated girl.
 
Honestly, I can't imagine what these pervs are going through right now themselves. I'd bet some 35yo married guy in Atlanta is pretty much s***ing himself on an hourly basis right now.
 
Legalize prostitution and many (not all) of these problems go away.

The ones that don't we circumcise just below the ears.
 
Tom-D said:
Legalize prostitution and many (not all) of these problems go away.

The ones that don't we circumcise just below the ears.
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Sorry, don't buy that one. Someone looking for a 10 year old girl, well, even with a pretty libertarian view of prostitution, I'm still thinking of a need for a dull rusty blade and some barbed wire. Probably an IV so blood loss won't kill the guy before he experiences a whole lot of pain.

I would seriously support an exception to the 8th Amendment for this type of perp.
 
SCCutler said:
"Thank you for your exceedingly generous donation to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children."
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Love it, hell if you can pull that off leave him to "donate" again, maybe a kidney for the next time, an eye for the third....
 
Wow, 20,000 is a much bigger number than I would have thought. I know the world has always had these types of creeps in it, but maybe ignorance was bliss, before we had access to this type of information. I don't know how the process works internationally, but I hope they are able to act against these a*#holes and make the world a safer place. I would vote for forced castration, as well, but at least lock them up.
 
John221us said:
Wow, 20,000 is a much bigger number than I would have thought. I know the world has always had these types of creeps in it, but maybe ignorance was bliss, before we had access to this type of information. I don't know how the process works internationally, but I hope they are able to act against these a*#holes and make the world a safer place. I would vote for forced castration, as well, but at least lock them up.
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I might be able to get behind basic imprisonment with two caveats:

1) Must be in the "General Population"
2) Must be given a forehead tattoo indicating they are child molesters
 
It seems that the imprisonment method does work pretty well for getting some of these people what they deserve. Nobody's going to ask too many questions when somebody that nobody likes is mysteriously killed by his cell mate or is found having hung himself with a rope that nobody knows where he got it.

Didn't that Castro guy from Cleveland get found dead not long after being imprisoned? And Tsarnaev?
 
How is this any different from the people that watch adult themed Anime?
 
My problem with imprisonment is that prisoners aren't much use to society these days with all the apologists making sure they have three squares and X number of square feet and cable TV and what-not.

Not sure the Chinese system of shooting them and sending the family the bill for the firing squad and ammunition is the correct way either.

I think "rehabilitation" is a myth for a large number of convicts. But there are some that dig deep and learn to behave in society.

We're obviously doing something wrong with the largest per capita number of prisoners in the free world. We've made prisons a profit center for drug enforcer bureaucrats and a selected few businesses based on prisoner labor.

Too bad we can't just ship them all to Australia like the Brits did, eh? LOL.
 
JeffDG said:
As the father of a 10 year old daughter, I can tell you, that castration with a dull rusty blade would be too good for these people.
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Maybe castration of the guys who should not have had daughters, because they are too stupid and gullible. "Predators" my posterior.

If you cannot tell, I had enough with moral panics, and the so-called "child pornography" panic is the worst one yet. The drunk driving one is pretty much up there too.
 
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The difference is they thought they were talking to a real child. This is along the lines of the "have a seat over there" guys. US Federal child porn laws (at least in the US) were not established because the material is indecent, but because the allegation is that the child is harmed by being involved in the pornographic process. That's what distinguishes Anime and other porn where adults pretend to be children.

Might not be your or my cup of tea, but that's the way it is.
 
flyingron said:
The difference is they thought they were talking to a real child. This is along the lines of the "have a seat over there" guys. US Federal child porn laws (at least in the US) were not established because the material is indecent, but because the allegation is that the child is harmed by being involved in the pornographic process. That's what distinguishes Anime and other porn where adults pretend to be children.

Might not be your or my cup of tea, but that's the way it is.
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If computer generated you can still tell it's, well, computer generated. CGI hasn't come that far yet. I could tell immediately it is CGI when I saw the article. Should we start charging people with murder for playing Call of Duty or any other first person shooter where you are killing other "people" because they "look almost real?" Bust people on the FARs for all sorts of violations on X plane and flight simulator. Hell, I should be serving thousands of consecutive life sentences and never be allowed another certificate if that's the case.
 
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I have a real problem with these types of sting operations. You're creating a crime that doesn't exist. What about the people that get caught up in that sting operation that might go though life without ever molesting a child? Is it productive to lock them up for a crime that they may well never have committed in real life?

I feel the same way about prostitution stings. Yeah you catch the habitual perps that regularly engage in that, but you also catch the occasional businessman who probably never would have, had the opportunity not been available.

I don't buy the argument that prosecuting people for thought crimes will make for a safer society.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have a real problem with these types of sting operations. You're creating a crime that doesn't exist. What about the people that get caught up in that sting operation that might go though life without ever molesting a child? Is it productive to lock them up for a crime that they may well never have committed in real life?

I feel the same way about prostitution stings. Yeah you catch the habitual perps that regularly engage in that, but you also catch the occasional businessman who probably never would have, had the opportunity not been available.

I don't buy the argument that prosecuting people for thought crimes will make for a safer society.
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^^^^^ This.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have a real problem with these types of sting operations. You're creating a crime that doesn't exist. What about the people that get caught up in that sting operation that might go though life without ever molesting a child? Is it productive to lock them up for a crime that they may well never have committed in real life?

I feel the same way about prostitution stings. Yeah you catch the habitual perps that regularly engage in that, but you also catch the occasional businessman who probably never would have, had the opportunity not been available.

I don't buy the argument that prosecuting people for thought crimes will make for a safer society.
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But this wasn't a sting operation. It was a group of researchers who admit that they have no prosecutorial power. They turned the results over to the police but...

While they were chatting with the “girl”, researchers gathered information about her customers through social media.

Using this information, researchers identified the abusers and passed the information on to police.

“The biggest problem is that the police don’t take action until child victims file reports, but children almost never report these crimes,” said head of campaigns Hans Guyt.
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Also...

According to the UN and the FBI, there are over 750,000 child predators online at any given moment, Terre des Hommes said, also announcing an online petition to pressure governments to adopt proactive investigation policies.

Yet only six people have been convicted of engaging in webcam child sex tourism in the world, the rights group said.
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So I don't think you need to worry about overcrowding in the prisons. This also involved people from many countries so I believe it would depend on how each jurisdiction's laws interpreted it.
 
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There was a local teacher here who was caught in a sting operation, soliciting sex online from a 13 year old girl (who was really a cop). That's creepy, I don't want a guy like that teaching children.
 
Given the oppurtunity, I would make sure they live a very, very, very long time. ALthough, it wouldnt be much a life with, really.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have a real problem with these types of sting operations. You're creating a crime that doesn't exist. What about the people that get caught up in that sting operation that might go though life without ever molesting a child? Is it productive to lock them up for a crime that they may well never have committed in real life?
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Actually, they're not creating a crime. The crime is attempted child molestation.

Let's say I'm an undercover cop on the street. I offer to sell you a bag of powdered sugar. Now, you think it's cocaine...you buying that is an attempt to purchase a controlled substance...your intent was to buy cocaine. You can't be charged with possession of a controlled substance (you never had any actual cocaine in your possession), but there is still a crime.

Me, I'd rather these folks get caught and punished before they molest real kids...but that's just me. If you'd prefer that someone's kid has to suffer before these people can be prosecuted, you're entitled to your opinion...it's not one that I share, that I can guarantee you.
 
bluee said:
There was a local teacher here who was caught in a sting operation, soliciting sex online from a 13 year old girl (who was really a cop). That's creepy, I don't want a guy like that teaching children.
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But, but, but...he never solicited a child...it was an adult, so that's cool. No punishment needed until he actually hooks up with a child.
 
Can we catch the child molesters and leave the coke heads alone?
JeffDG said:
Actually, they're not creating a crime. The crime is attempted child molestation.

Let's say I'm an undercover cop on the street. I offer to sell you a bag of powdered sugar. Now, you think it's cocaine...you buying that is an attempt to purchase a controlled substance...your intent was to buy cocaine. You can't be charged with possession of a controlled substance (you never had any actual cocaine in your possession), but there is still a crime.

Me, I'd rather these folks get caught and punished before they molest real kids...but that's just me. If you'd prefer that someone's kid has to suffer before these people can be prosecuted, you're entitled to your opinion...it's not one that I share, that I can guarantee you.
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The fact it wasn't a real human being makes it hard for me to see any crime having occurred. That said, it would seem like sufficient cause to keep an eye on these individuals and maybe pay them a visit.


I do think we need to be careful with these things. The problem is that everyone hates child molesters, we all have the image in our minds of the creepy old pervert luring some small child off to do unspeakable things and we all want that evil person to suffer.

Then, later down the line an 18 year old kid gets caught with naked pictures of his 16 year old girlfriend and is prosecuted under the same law and stuck with the same label we put one these creepy perverts for life. Or some college kid is drunk at a party, bathroom is full so he takes a leak in the bushes... cop happens to be watching and now he's a sex offender.

You've got to be very careful with laws like that. My above examples are pretty clear-cut but what if the 18 year old is with a 14 year old. She's a little young but is he on the same level of the creepy pedophile guy? What about a father camping with a 6 year old son and he pees out in the bushes with a cop watching? What about nudist families or old-fashioned type grandmothers who bathe young naked children?

This stuff get really subjective really quick.
 
JeffDG said:
Actually, they're not creating a crime. The crime is attempted child molestation.

Let's say I'm an undercover cop on the street. I offer to sell you a bag of powdered sugar. Now, you think it's cocaine...you buying that is an attempt to purchase a controlled substance...your intent was to buy cocaine. You can't be charged with possession of a controlled substance (you never had any actual cocaine in your possession), but there is still a crime.

Me, I'd rather these folks get caught and punished before they molest real kids...but that's just me. If you'd prefer that someone's kid has to suffer before these people can be prosecuted, you're entitled to your opinion...it's not one that I share, that I can guarantee you.
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I'm sorry, but that IS a manufactured crime. If you hadn't been on the street hawking your confectionary topping, the "crime" wouldn't have happened. Certainly not that instance.

I mean what's going to happen, really. You've stuck some four foot five adult decoy dressed as a little girl in your public library who's job is to talk dirty to fat, unshaven middle aged men. Fine, you've caught a couple of them. They get a ticket and they go on their way. All you really did is identify them as pervs. Small victory. Is that going to stop them from molesting a real child? If that's what their bent is, then history says no.

And even if it was effective to some degree, that approach sounds "fine" when you apply it to clear crimes of moral perpetude. But what about when it extends to activities that are less clear cut? How about when your health coverage is dropped when you bought a cigar from undercover Federal Health and Human Services agents? How about being fined for "intent to speed" when you buy a radar detector from undercover traffic cops?

How about being charged with "intent to destroy evidence" when undercover Internal Affairs cops catch you eating powdered sugar in the evidence room by baiting you with a powdered donut?
 
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