What Plane Should I Get

Captain

Captain

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So, I've been dreaming for awhile now about getting a plane. Money is tight and my wife isn't going to let me get crazy. I'm thinking around 30 - 40K is about as much as I'm going to get her to go on a first plane.

I'd like a tail dragger (although I'd have get an endorsement), it need to hold at least 2 and it needs some sort of electrical system as there is no way I'm going to hand prop it.

I do not need IFR capable, but a nav/radio w/ xponder would be swell. (we have class B nearby and getting in would be a plus.

I'd like to eventually teach my boys to fly in it so dual controls would be good too.

Any ideas what fits the bill? Oh yeah, I know it varies, but what's the range of what a T hangar should cost per month?

Thanks
 
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Re: What Plance Should I Get

Cherokee or a 172 if you're on a budget, I think the Cherokee 180's are about the best deal on the market right now. If I were in your position, I'd be buying a Cherokee 180. MX is cheap, flying is cheap and issuance is cheap and it has an O-360 in it and a nice example can be had in your price range. Not a taildragger but...

A WAG for a hangar is $350/mo. I pay $200/mo for a hangar I share with a King Air, Cessna 172RG, Cherokee 6 and 2 Cessna 150s.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

30-40K gives you a lot of options. Which would you prefer - as much speed as you can get, short field/ bush capability, "wind in the hair", etc.?

"Character" or utility?

Certified or E-AB?

T hangar is going to vary a LOT depending on if you are on some grass strip out in the sticks, or at a busy airport near the big city. You are likely to find the rates at the web pages at local airports.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

I don't care about speed. I'd just be happy to go punch holes with my boys. Speed would be important if I could use it to take the fan on trips...but then I need to be able to seat six and that is WAY out of the price range.

Tail dragger just sounds neat but it seems like ones I can afford are inline seating and I'm not sure how I could eventually flight instruct that way...though I guess it could be done.

Grass and asphalt. I don't see bush flying or landing on a beach in my future.

Never really thought about certification. What are pros and cons? I'm not an A&P.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

I have to second Rusty's comments about the Cherokee. You can find some nice deals on Cherokees these days. They are great planes to learn to fly in plus you will have room for your boys. They are also fairly reasonable on maintenance costs. Check out Barnstormers.com to get a feel for what's available in your price range. Good luck with your quest!
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Does anyone learn to fly in a tail dragger? Would I be stupid to solo my boys in one?
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Prior to the 60's just about everyone learned to fly in taildraggers since that was predominately available. With that said, tri-gears are much easier for beginners. I've never heard of ground looping a tri-gear like you can a taildragger.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
Does anyone learn to fly in a tail dragger? Would I be stupid to solo my boys in one?
Click to expand...

Yes they do, and no you wouldn't. Having said that, your insurance company MAY have something to say about it. They would be covered, at a price. I can't say what that price is, however. A question to ask the agent.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

I was looking at some Champs online. Can you fly from the back seat? How could I teach my boys?
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Btw, there is load of time for the instruction thing. My boys are 9 and 7 and are at the stage where Dad is still cool. I'd really like to expose them to flying. Right now they know dad is a pilot and are very interested. I had an opportunity to take them flying on a company plane last weekend and they liked it so much they didn't even complain about the 3 hr drive home. They couldn't wait to tell Mom about their adventure!

So now I've taken them flying twice in their lives. The first was in a rental and that is no longer an option.

So, I'd like to keep this going and not have to wait another 5 years to give them a :45 minute ride. I never fly GA now, but I have kept my CFI, CFII and MEI current through the years.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
I was looking at some Champs online. Can you fly from the back seat? How could I teach my boys?
Click to expand...

Do they have dual controls? Yes they do. Can you solo from the back? I don't think so. Unlike a Cub, you typically solo a champ from the front. But as long as there is someone in the front seat, and the CG is correct, there is no reason that you can't teach from the back seat.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Is it safe to be PIC in the back seat with a non-pilot in front?
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
I was looking at some Champs online. Can you fly from the back seat? How could I teach my boys?
Click to expand...
Champs are designed to be soloed from the front, but trained from the back. They do have controls in both seats. So, you can teach them from the back while they sit in the front and will solo from the front.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

is 30-40K your max budget or have you made allowances for other things outside of that number?

'other things'
prebuy
hangar
insurance
training
gas
oil changes
repairs
everyone wants to do an upgrade to their new plane
that first annual is always a nightmare
incidentals (medical, charts, headsets)
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
So, I've been dreaming for awhile now about getting a plane. Money is tight and my wife isn't going to let me get crazy. I'm thinking around 30 - 40K is about as much as I'm going to get her to go on a first plane.

I'd like a tail dragger (although I'd have get an endorsement), it need to hold at least 2 and it needs some sort of electrical system as there is no way I'm going to hand prop it.

I do not need IFR capable, but a nav/radio w/ xponder would be swell. (we have class B nearby and getting in would be a plus.

I'd like to eventually teach my boys to fly in it so dual controls would be good too.

Any ideas what fits the bill? Oh yeah, I know it varies, but what's the range of what a T hangar should cost per month?

Thanks
Click to expand...

RV-4, Midget Mustang II, and Thorpe T-18 come to mind.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Henning said:
RV-4, Midget Mustang II, and Thorpe T-18 come to mind.
Click to expand...
Given his stated intent to use this as a primary trainer for his kids, I think I'd shy away from E-AB types -- too many quirks for that.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

As long as we're on the subject...

What's the difference between the cheetah and the tiger... I guess I could research it, but its late... and I'm feeling a bit lazy... :)
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Ron Levy said:
When you find a Cherokee or 172 taildragger, let us know.
Click to expand...

A few exist, http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.202178150215.139540.79219185215&type=3

There's another one flying that isn't as nice of a design as Steve's.

And here's your 172


5820A.jpg


P.S. I realized he said taildragger (even stated as much in my post) but not a lot about his post suggested that a nose wheel deficient airplane was what he truly wanted, training his kids, budget etc...
 
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Re: What Plance Should I Get

FlySince9 said:
What's the difference between the cheetah and the tiger...
Click to expand...
30 HP, 200 lb gross weight, about 125 lb useful load, and about 10 knots. Mechanically, the engine (180HP O-360 vs 150 HP O-320), prop (76x63 vs 73x59), induction system (aft feed vs forward feed), and center spar wall thickness (0.300" vs 0.268").
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Ron Levy said:
30 HP, 200 lb gross weight, about 125 lb useful load, and about 10 knots. Mechanically, the engine (180HP O-360 vs 150 HP O-320), prop (76x63 vs 73x59), induction system (aft feed vs forward feed), and center spar wall thickness (0.300" vs 0.268").
Click to expand...

See... Google has nothing on you guys...

Thanx
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
So, I've been dreaming for awhile now about getting a plane. Money is tight and my wife isn't going to let me get crazy. I'm thinking around 30 - 40K is about as much as I'm going to get her to go on a first plane.

I'd like a tail dragger (although I'd have get an endorsement), it need to hold at least 2 and it needs some sort of electrical system as there is no way I'm going to hand prop it.

I do not need IFR capable, but a nav/radio w/ xponder would be swell. (we have class B nearby and getting in would be a plus.

I'd like to eventually teach my boys to fly in it so dual controls would be good too.

Any ideas what fits the bill? Oh yeah, I know it varies, but what's the range of what a T hangar should cost per month?

Thanks
Click to expand...

RV- 4 is perfect for you. Light aerobatics, fast, easy to land and uses little runway.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

I have done many hours of primary instruction in the back of a champ, I like teaching in them. However a citabria might be a better fit in that it adds an electrical system and with some shopping can be had within your budget.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Geico266 said:
RV- 4 is perfect for you. Light aerobatics, fast, easy to land and uses little runway.
Click to expand...


I'm liking it! Thanks, I've never even heard of one before. I think I'm in love!
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Let'sgoflying! said:
is 30-40K your max budget or have you made allowances for other things outside of that number?

'other things'
prebuy
hangar
insurance
training
gas
oil changes
repairs
everyone wants to do an upgrade to their new plane
that first annual is always a nightmare
incidentals (medical, charts, headsets)
Click to expand...


Shhhhhhhhh. You know that. I know that. Don't let my wife find out please...
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
Does anyone learn to fly in a tail dragger? Would I be stupid to solo my boys in one?
Click to expand...

I learned to fly in a tail dragger, my instructor sat behind me and could demonstrate wheel and 3 point landings in it.

I still dislike heel brakes though.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

350/month is high for hangarage. I pay 260/month for my own T hangar at a busy class C (albeit one with not too much GA activity and a lot of empty hangars)
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

pericynthion said:
350/month is high for hangarage. I pay 260/month for my own T hangar at a busy class C (albeit one with not too much GA activity and a lot of empty hangars)
Click to expand...

I checked down the east coast at various places from SC down into to Northeast Florida a couple of Months ago, going rate was 300-350 if you could find one.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Captain said:
I'm liking it! Thanks, I've never even heard of one before. I think I'm in love!
Click to expand...

Just be sure to paint it up with invasion strips and announce your intentions to do overhead breaks on the CTAF at your uncontrolled airport and you should be fine. :D
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

"3 mile final for left break runway 11 right, any traffic please advise......ah, tower am I cleard to land? And ah...wind check"
 
Two seat or light four seat taildraggers off the top of my head in your price range or close and still somewhat common (these are all certified ships, plenty of experimentals too):

Cessna 120/140
Cessna 170/170a
Piper J3
Piper J4 coupe
Piper J5
Piper PA11
Piper PA14
Piper PA15
Piper PA20 (or 22 converted to tailwheel most often advertised as a 22/20)
Taylorcraft BC12
Luscombe 8A/B/C/D
Aeronca Champ
Aeronca Chief
Maule M4 (O-300)
Pre-Bellanca Citabria might be in your price range, particularly the 7ECA.

This is just me, having spent seven years in Alaska around little taildraggers of every variety....for boring holes in the sky for fun with speed not a factor, and for fitting my 6'2" 195lb self and a passenger in comfort, I would spring for a Citabria if I could. If I couldn't I'd get the best Cessna 140 I could find. I've also flown or flown in Chiefs Champs Taylorcrafts and about half of the Piper variants above and with the exception of the PA22/20 none of them were very comfy but that's me. Perhaps you are smaller.

Or you can get a 170. The prices being what they are right now there are great examples of early models going in the low to mid 30s.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

I'm 6'4" if that makes a difference. 230lbs.
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

You sure you want to be seen in an UN-AWESOME not King Air? I was seriously going to suggest a Stinson 108 in that price range and mission category, but that wouldn't be in keeping with your already established character....
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Ron Levy said:
Given his stated intent to use this as a primary trainer for his kids, I think I'd shy away from E-AB types -- too many quirks for that.
Click to expand...


I think any of the above are fine primary trainers, none of them are quirky, 2 are even side by side. E-AB and even Pt 103 make excellent primary training. You can still buy a Swift for a reasonable price, although the IO/TSIO 360 Cont powered with stick, canopy, & other goodies go for more. That's a cool plane, she's got a couple gotchas like a left crosswind takeoff limitation (locking tailwheel helps). What else cool is there, How about a PA-20? On the North side of North Perry on the ramp where the Pawnee operator always has been, there's a red PA-20 (could be 22/20:dunno:) on that north ramp where the fuel & FBO is. I'm pretty sure it's for sale. If you put it on floats and teach them as seaplane pilots in a certified 4 place seaplane, they will have a marketable & insurable skill at 250hrs + 18 and an asset with which to work even if only flight instruction and seaplane ratings. LA-4 series planes are not outrageous either.
 
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Re: What Plance Should I Get

For gosh sakes.... Can you correct the spelling in your topic... ;)
 
Re: What Plance Should I Get

Ron Levy said:
Instructors do it all the time when giving primary training.
Click to expand...
This is true... the only caveat would be that said instructor should have some back-seat time with another qualified PIC up front first. Not a big deal with a Champ, but worth considering.

But if you get a Luscombe 8 or Cessna 120/140 (all of which can be found in great shape at low prices, and very miserly on fuel), there's no front seat/back seat issue, as they have side-by-side seating.
 
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