What is your success rate...

Success Rate?

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EdFred

EdFred

Taxi to Parking
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White Chocolate
...in obtaining VFR Class Bravo Transition?
 
For me there has only been one opportunity. I was offered but turned it down as I didn't really need it.
 
If I hadn't tried to go to Phoenix, it would be 100%. That includes:Dallas (many times), Houston, Memphis, Atlanta, Miami, LA, San Francisco, Charlotte, Philly, Cinncinati, NY, and a bunch of Class C.
 
I'm based at an airport under DEN's Bravo and frequently fly VFR. About all I can say about a Bravo clearance is that it depends on route and time of day.

At 5 a.m., they almost always let me in the Bravo at some point. Last trip to Wyoming, 5:30 a.m. departure, they wouldn't clear me into the Bravo until I was airborne and climbing to the east (even though I wanted to go NW). I think I annoyed the controller a bit when I called Denver CD from the ramp at FTG. Instead of establishing contact first I just gave all information on the first call. Got to repeat myself. Same controller was handling departure. The didn't let me turn on course until I was about 5 miles east of FTG. Did get to fly over the northern portion of DEN. The only other aircraft on freq was FlightCheck.

From about eight until after the evening push and going east to west or west to east, forget it. Coming from the north or south and staying east or west of the approach/departure corridors seems to help but even then they get you below the shelves pretty quick. I've had them tell me to get really low when they're bringing slow IFR traffic from the east into APA.
 
I'm based under a B and inside the SFRA and am routinely told to remain clear of the B but then again I don't ask for it. I have asked a few times when departing and I've had good luck getting it in those cases.
 
I honestly can't think of a single time that I've been denied at the moment...MSP never really denied me, they just kind of nudged me around their airspace when flying into MIC.

I may be missing something, but I can't recall.
 
i guess i know when to ask. hint don't ask chicago, ask kansas city
 
Dean said:
I believe that makes a big difference, KC and St.Louis are pretty good about it.
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Funny, Denver was much better about it back when the airport was the old Stapleton which was further west. In that case you needed a Class B clearance to go up and down the I-25 corridor and it was easy to get.
 
100% in the last decade or so. But I've only needed them
a few times, mostly going into JFK or sightseeing in the PHL area.
 
:Dallas - : Dallas - ha
 
Highly dependent on time of day and day of the week. Sunday morning...no problem... 5 PM on a weekday is another story.
 
I hit the wrong one by mistake. I rarely get refused class b transition, but I do accept vectors and altitude changes and announce that upon request.
 
I live (and fly) from the east side of the Dallas/Ft. Worth Class Bravo airspace - in Rockwall, TX (F46) or at our private airport (T14). Getting a VFR transition through the airspace completely depends on the time of day. On the weekdays, it's almost a sure shot that you're going to get vectored around. On the weekends, I can get a transition about 75% of the time.

It all depends on how busy they are at the moment.
 
Only done it once, transitioned across SEA through their B space. No problem at all.
 
Never denied thru San Diego Class B. Los Angeles has a the VFR corridor. Don't bother asking LA.
 
andybean said:
Never denied thru San Diego Class B. Los Angeles has a the VFR corridor. Don't bother asking LA.
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I've actually never requested a bravo clearance to enter LA, but I have cancelled IFR within it and flew out under a Bravo clearance no problem. Never had a problem getting in and out of San Diego or SFO airspace with a bravo clearance.
 
I've had good luck, but I know when not to ask:

Through IAD's space unless it's the middle of the night
Through the DCA/BWI east-west route during BWI busy times.

All other times, I've been good - through PHL, NYC, BOS, PIT.
 
100%, I'm one for one. Probably not a statistically valid sample size...
 
LAX, SAN, SFO, PHX, SEA, SLC, LAS.

Two times up, twice denied LAS. All others cleared no matter the condition.

Good question.
 
andybean said:
Never denied thru San Diego Class B. Los Angeles has a the VFR corridor. Don't bother asking LA.
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If I'm transiting east/west I'm not gonna go to an entry point just for a few miles. It doesn't make sense to the pilot or to ATC.

ARR/DEP under even an inner shelf has not been a problem. I have found ZLA and SoCal APP to be the most professional I have worked with.
 
I would have picked 100% but got a standby once from Philly and by the time they came back I was ready to switch to allentown.
 
Well, that depends.

Las Vegas? 0%.

Chicago? Meh... I've gotten through VFR once (midnight on a Sunday), but I mostly know better than to bother even asking.

Dallas, Houston, Tampa, Miami, Philadelphia, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Denver, Detroit, Kansas City? 100%.

I'm sensing a theme... Chicago and Las Vegas kinda suck.

BTW, SFO gave me a Bravo clearance before I even had a chance to ask for it, and a couple days later let me tool around not only inside their airspace but very close in to the airport. Hands down the best class B experience I've ever had.
 
100%

Only once though. I asked for, and received, flight following under a class bravo shelf...and the controller offered me the chance to climb into bravo space to get past some congested airspace (TFR, 2 class deltas). I of course accepted the chance to simply flight a straight line to the airport I wanted.
 
Only been denied one time around MEM but it was during a peak hour for Northwest and Fed-Ex and I was transitioning opposite airport direction (traffic taking off South and me transitioning North). Other than that there hasn't been an issue.
 
Guess it depends where.

PHL >95%, lots of times, it has been a while but do remember the "remain clear of Bravo" once.
NYC 100%, never remember being refused, didn't always like the routing, but...
BOS 75%, small sample size, refused once out of four attempts
WSH (pre-sfra) 100%, only did it a few times, never a problem.
PIT 100%, single time

So... really don't have that many experiences overall.

What made you ask the question? How would you evaluate the responses?

Gary
 
Just curious. I hear people make comments that they always get denied in places where I never have - even during a push.
 
Gotta say, the NY controllers are top notch. I've rarely been denied and have been given it without asking when approaching the big B on FF
 
100% for me also. I only tried it once through Pittsburg, and Got in no problem.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, that depends.

Las Vegas? 0%.

Chicago? Meh... I've gotten through VFR once (midnight on a Sunday), but I mostly know better than to bother even asking.

Dallas, Houston, Tampa, Miami, Philadelphia, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Denver, Detroit, Kansas City? 100%.

I'm sensing a theme... Chicago and Las Vegas kinda suck.

BTW, SFO gave me a Bravo clearance before I even had a chance to ask for it, and a couple days later let me tool around not only inside their airspace but very close in to the airport. Hands down the best class B experience I've ever had.
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I still don't understand the hate for Las Vegas. They've always been VERY helpful to me. I've even gone into LAS at a very busy time. Getting out was harder than getting in.
 
I fly out of Beaver co just under the upper shelf of the Pitt bravo. Pretty sure I've only been denied once and vectored through maybe three times. Pitt might as well be a charlie.
 
SkyHog said:
I still don't understand the hate for Las Vegas. They've always been VERY helpful to me. I've even gone into LAS at a very busy time. Getting out was harder than getting in.
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Meh... Small sample size (1) in my case. But someone else mentioned 'em too.

I think I called about 7 times as I was transitioning all the way out and around their airspace, sandwiched between the Bravo and the rocks and they finally said "stand by, we'll get to you" and I was on the ground at Boulder City before they did.

It's one thing for a flatland Bravo to ignore you... But I did not like where I was one bit. I could kind of see some of the terrain, and I had the 496 as well, but had I lost my engine at any point in that zone I'd have been hosed. Really would have liked to be higher.
 
It helps to be on FF, I think. I've been delayed but never denied entry/transition vfr
 
Hmm, needs more categories...

Transitions DOWN through the Bravo after a high X-C, almost 100%.

(Even with the cranky controllers at KLAS who wanted me down NOW, even though it was pitch black outside (night), I could see the 50,000 candlepower on the 737 headed my direction easily, and there was a ridgeline passing underneath the aircraft only 1000' below the wings. I refused since I already had a Bravo clearance but said I'd expedite and turn farther south and that I had the traffic in sight. Hell, I almost needed sunglasses at night.)

Transitions to "cut the corner" on a Bravo, completely dependent on where the controllers were vectoring the traffic for the main/hub airport. I'd give it 20% on a pop-up around DEN, and maybe a little higher chances if you were on a discreet squawk, FF, and they saw you coming for miles and miles so you were already in their mental picture and they knew where you were going.

Transitions that were almost over the top of the Bravo, but not quite, I'm 100% but have only done it once in California years and years ago. Also have gone over the top of a lot of Class Charlie and Delta airspace... fun to look straight down at the airliners waaaay below at the bigger airports.

In all, since I've tried more "cut the corner" pop-ups with places than anything, even though the above percentages would seem to indicate a high success rate, I'd call it 50/50 overall.

But... I could easily raise that percentage by knocking off the "could I cut this corner" calls, which lately -- I mostly have. You can also raise it significantly by flying in off-hours, like late at night.

Instead of asking to cut the corners, I now do FF underneath the shelf, and if the controller has a lot of traffic under the shelf, or nothing between me and the destination, they much more often OFFER to let you cut the corner, than respond well to a pop-up that wants to wander through.

It's either an "I'm not busy, cleared into the class Bravo, direct... KXXX. Current ATIS is Yankee." Or it's "There's way too much traffic over there VFR that's setting off my alerts on your target, and you're on a squawk code... if I move your chess piece over HERE... Cleared into the Bravo..."

I have also clipped the corner of one un-named Bravo by zooming too far in on a GPS moving map and missing a small section that juts out of it. And I filed an ASRS report on myself for doing so, too.

"No airliners were harmed or their protected airspace violated, in the making of this stupidity."
 
I've only asked for Bravo clearance from DTW and CLE, and I've been made to wait, once in fact until I no longer needed the clearance, but I've never been turned down in probably 6 or 7 tries. Most recently I was coming back from BVI south of Cleveland in March, and asked to go through the CLE Bravo as soon as I was handed off to them, about 20 nm before I would enter the airspace at the altitude I was at. They kept me on the edge of my seat until I was less than 2 nm from the ring and had started to descend to duck under the shelf, but they did clear me through. It was after dark, definitely not during a push time, but they did have some traffic and sent me halfway to MFD, but it was better than going over the lake with the ice breaking up, or puttering over an unfamiliar area at 2000 AGL.
 
Always except for once.
 
60% of the time, I get a clearance every time.
 
Like others have said, San Diego is probably one of the easiest to get a Class B clearance, they practically invite you in. PHX is a pain - I have only been sucessful once and that was for the VFR corridor over PHX. Haven't had much success with BOS either - think I was 25% there.
 
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