What is your clearance limit when cleared for the approach and then you loose coms? What Do You do.

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by Sammie, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello folks

    Here is a question that I am told is being ask at various airline interviews, and I can’t seem to find the exact answer. Please remember the official answer is what I am looking for not the, what I would really do. So here is the question.

    What is your clearance limit when cleared for the approach and then you loose coms?
    ie: United 1234 you are cleared for the ILS 24 approach into XYZ, you respond with your read back and then 3 mins later you lose comms, what do u do, and why?..

    Thank you
     
  2. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Cleared for the approach but not cleared to land?
    Are the airlines really that strict during interviews that they want an FAA regulated answer rather than a common sense one which will result in a safe outcome with no inconvenience to anyone?
     
  3. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    Either that or they just want to see what you would do.

    Thanks
     
  4. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Kinda takes away from the interview process when you poll for the answer on the internet doesn't it? Do you plan on polling the passengers, I can see it now...
    This is your captain, we've seem to have lost communications, despite the training we don't have a clue what to do next, our internet link down so I can't get on POA, our flight attendants are now going to take a poll...
     
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  5. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    I know my answer. What do you think the right answer is? Cite your sources. Then we can pick that apart...
     
  6. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

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    Man tough crowd. But the question does seem a little silly. Where does the approach terminate? How many options do you expect there to be? You're cleared for the approach, so you fly it. Where else do you think you would go? Do you expect to hold at the missed approach point while waiting on further guidance?
     
  7. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello Folks

    I am not polling for the answer, I am looking to see if the correct answer is what I am thinking.....

    Checking all equipment and related and
    Assuming radar contact....
    1) 7600 for one minute then assigned code
    2) If before ETA stated on flight plan enter published hold then depart hold and start approach assigned as close to ETA
    or if at ETA start approach assigned, look for light signals.
     
  8. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

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    You are making this harder than it needs to be. You have been cleared for the approach, you don't need to wait to begin.
     
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  9. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    Thank you for your answer.
     
  10. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    "Cleared for the approach" doesn't change the clearance limit. I can almost bet the original clearance limit was the airport. You go ahead and land if in IMC. If in VMC you look for a light signal.
     
  11. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    Great point thank you
     
  12. wayneda40

    wayneda40 Filing Flight Plan

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    Clearance Limit... my guess... the (per Clearance Delivery) "cleared to" destination airport, or if required/filed, the alternate airport.
     
  13. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

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    VMC or VFR. If I break out at 400 feet, I'm not going around unless I see a conflict. If I can maintain clear of clouds in the VFR pattern, I would go around until I get a light signal.
     
  14. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'd venture to say the tower would be expecting you to land regardless if you saw a light gun signal or not, but they will (Shirley they will) be displaying a light signal to land. Especially if you squawked 7600.
     
  15. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Just tell them you are looking at it from atc's standpoint, which, from the tower, will be, "Land the damn airplane!"
     
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  16. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    All great points thank you all for the constructive input.
     
  17. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    This is good discussion. I think the OPs initial response is exactly what they’re NOT looking for...ie rote memorization without analysis of the situation. As has been noted, you’re cleared for the approach and your clearance limit is the airport. You’ve been cleared to 1 inch above the runway. You need still need a landing clearance. What you do them will be subject to judgement. Break out at minimums? Look towards the tower for a red signal. If you see a signal to not land, go around. If you see nothing, exercise emergency authority and land.
     
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  18. Sammie

    Sammie Filing Flight Plan

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    Wonderful point..... The discussion is getting good.
    Thank you
     
  19. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    My guess is what they are fishing for is to see if you know that the Missed Approach is as much a part of the Procedure as the initial, intermediate and final segements. Even though the last time ATC said "cleared to" it was the airport, that the Missed Approach Fix is your 'de facto' clearance limit.
     
  20. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    God help them if there is more than one POA'er on the plane
     
  21. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    So I was looking for videos of people getting thrown out of airplanes. Found this

     
  22. Witmo

    Witmo Pattern Altitude

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    Airlines must be desperate if they can't think of more challenging questions/scenarios to ask prospective aircrew.
     
  23. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    I would think you are cleared all the way through the missed published approach provided you were not given alternate missed instructions. Fly the approach, see runway, land. Don’t see runway, published missed approach.

    Zero comms not resolved, transition to nearest IAF for another approach.
     
  24. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Line Up and Wait

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    Your clearance limit is unchanged. It is still the destination airport. Even if you miss the approach, the clearance limit is still the airport.
     
  25. Sundancer

    Sundancer Pattern Altitude

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    Probably just back up your decision during the discussion; my answer would be to land; that's likely what approach and tower will be expecting, and what they're planning for; if the weather is close to minimums, they'll know you might have to go missed, and have that in mind as well. What I wouldn't do is fly it to the MAP and then go blasting off on the missed, unless I really hadn't broken out. I figure it's already a burden on ATC that I'm driving around NORDO, and it'll serve everyone's interest if I get this terminated sooner rather than later.

    Caveat - I'm not a professional, and likely to get more "slack" than one; this might not be the "legal" answer, but the course i'd choose, and which would probably sit well with ATC.
     
  26. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If the com is loose just knock it back in place :D
     
  27. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    VFR pattern at 300'? "Broken out" doesn't equate to VMC.
     
  28. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    If landing or going missed, depending upon what you see, is a wrong answer, you don't want to work there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  29. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    Good point, I think you are correct. But if there is a need to go missed, what then? I suppose the alternate as mentioned below?
     
  30. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    But how do you tighten up a loose comm? And what if you lose your screw driver.
     
  31. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Give them the best of both worlds. Ask if they want the FAA-lawyer type of response or if they want a real world response. Be prepared to give both.
     
  32. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    There is a school of thought that when going NORDO you must proceed to your Clearance Limit and then proceed to an Approach Fix and then do an approach. This school of thought treats the Airport as an airborne waypoint. I'm wondering if they have been encountering folk would actually do such a thing 'after' they have been cleared for the approach.
     
  33. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    Coming from the prospect of someone who conducts interviews, I suspect the evaluation is as much how and why you answer the question the way you do as to what the content of the answer is. Personally I do not want to see someone reciting the rote answer, even if it's correct. I want to know the attitude and the thinking behind it. My thought is the priorities should be 1) safety of the passengers and 2) then crew, 3) safety of the aircraft, 4) compliance with regulations (many of which play into safety) and then 5) delivery of the passengers to their destination.

    Why would you say that they're different? NORDO in IFR is slightly less of an emergency than losing instruments but that's like being slightly less pregnant. Squawk 7600, fly the approach, look for light signals and absent seeing any, land under emergency authority in order to get my passengers, crew and myself safely on the ground again. That is both the real world and the FAA lawyer type of response.

    Don't ask what they want. Give your answer and be decisive about it. If I get everyone safely on the ground again, they can execute me later.
     
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  34. coloradobluesky

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    Here's my answer. "The goal is to get the plane on the ground safely. Cleared for an approach, fly the approach. Lost Com, squawk 7600. If I can land safely, land. If not follow published missed approach procedures."

    How did I do?
     
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  35. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    Need more information:

    On radar vector or own nav? Location when lost comm becomes apparent. Approach chart for IAP in question.
     
  36. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    Squawk 7500 and wait for the F16s to escort you down.
     
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  37. luvflyin

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    Yer hired. Be there at 7am. You got the walk around and it's your turn to bring donuts
     
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  38. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You forgot to tell him he gets the fat one.
     
  39. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    We save that for after he gets buckled in. Don't want to scare him away
     
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  40. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    wow...banker's hours!