What is the scoop on 777X?

[MountainDude]

DC-8 went from first flight to service in less than 1 year.
(It first flew on March 14, 1966, was certified on September 2, 1966, and entered service with United Airlines in February 1967, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-8).

777X flew in January 2020, and it still has not been certified 5 years later.

How is this possible?

 

[murphey]

Boeing’s busy just trying to stay in business.

 

[Mikey52]

The FAA makes it possible.

 

[MountainDude]

The FAA makes it possible.

I am curious what that means? Boeing has been certifying planes for decades. Did FAA do something unexpected for the 777X?

 

[Doc Holliday]

DC-8 went from first flight to service in less than 1 year.
(It first flew on March 14, 1966, was certified on September 2, 1966, and entered service with United Airlines in February 1967, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-8).

777X flew in January 2020, and it still has not been certified 5 years later.

How is this possible?

The Douglas DC-8 (sometimes McDonnell Douglas DC-8) is an early long-range narrow-body jetliner designed and produced by the American Douglas Aircraft Company. Work began in 1952 towards the United States Air Force's (USAF) requirement for a jet-powered aerial refueling tanker. After losing the USAF's tanker competition to the rival Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker in May 1954, Douglas announced in June 1955 its derived jetliner project marketed to civil operators. In October 1955, Pan Am made the first order along with the competing Boeing 707, and many other airlines soon followed. The first DC-8 was rolled out in Long Beach Airport on April 9, 1958, and flew for the first time on May 30. Following Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification in August 1959, the DC-8 entered service with Delta Air Lines on September 18.

In your quote it refers to the Series 60. By the time that version flew the design was already 11 years old.

As far as the 777X,

Boeing 777X - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2021​

In January 2021, Boeing expected to add two more 777-9s to the test program, aiming for certification in 2021.The delay was due to updated type certification requirements and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on aviation, costing a $6.5 billion charge.

On June 27, 2021, The Seattle Times reported on an FAA letter to Boeing dated May 13 delaying type certification until mid to late 2023, pushing deliveries to 2024. The FAA cited a serious test flight incident involving an "uncommanded pitch event" and a lack of "design maturity".

2022–2024​

In April 2022, after an "updated assessment of the time required to meet certification requirements", Boeing again delayed 777X deliveries, this time to 2025. In November 2022, it was revealed that the GE9X engine on one of the four test 777-9s had suffered a technical issue on October 6. Boeing subsequently paused the test program while GE investigated the issue.

In May 2024, launch customer Lufthansa was expecting its first deliveries in 2026.

In August 2024, routine inspection following a test flight in Hawaii led to Boeing grounding its 777X test fleet. A structural link between the engine and wing was found to be damaged, while cracks were found in the same component on other aircraft in the fleet.

On October 11, 2024, Boeing confirmed that the expected first delivery of the aircraft had slipped to 2026, following development challenges and workplace strikes at the company. Emirates cast doubt on this forecast, noting that Boeing had no clear timeline for resuming certification flights.

 

[MountainDude]

The Douglas DC-8 (sometimes McDonnell Douglas DC-8) is an early long-range narrow-body jetliner designed and produced by the American Douglas Aircraft Company. Work began in 1952 towards the United States Air Force's (USAF) requirement for a jet-powered aerial refueling tanker. After losing the USAF's tanker competition to the rival Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker in May 1954, Douglas announced in June 1955 its derived jetliner project marketed to civil operators. In October 1955, Pan Am made the first order along with the competing Boeing 707, and many other airlines soon followed. The first DC-8 was rolled out in Long Beach Airport on April 9, 1958, and flew for the first time on May 30. Following Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification in August 1959, the DC-8 entered service with Delta Air Lines on September 18.

In your quote it refers to the Series 60. By the time that version flew the design was already 11 years old.

As far as the 777X,

Boeing 777X - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2021​

In January 2021, Boeing expected to add two more 777-9s to the test program, aiming for certification in 2021.The delay was due to updated type certification requirements and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on aviation, costing a $6.5 billion charge.

On June 27, 2021, The Seattle Times reported on an FAA letter to Boeing dated May 13 delaying type certification until mid to late 2023, pushing deliveries to 2024. The FAA cited a serious test flight incident involving an "uncommanded pitch event" and a lack of "design maturity".

2022–2024​

In April 2022, after an "updated assessment of the time required to meet certification requirements", Boeing again delayed 777X deliveries, this time to 2025. In November 2022, it was revealed that the GE9X engine on one of the four test 777-9s had suffered a technical issue on October 6. Boeing subsequently paused the test program while GE investigated the issue.

In May 2024, launch customer Lufthansa was expecting its first deliveries in 2026.

In August 2024, routine inspection following a test flight in Hawaii led to Boeing grounding its 777X test fleet. A structural link between the engine and wing was found to be damaged, while cracks were found in the same component on other aircraft in the fleet.

On October 11, 2024, Boeing confirmed that the expected first delivery of the aircraft had slipped to 2026, following development challenges and workplace strikes at the company. Emirates cast doubt on this forecast, noting that Boeing had no clear timeline for resuming certification flights.

My understanding is that 777X is also another version of 777, just like series 60 was another version of DC-8, which is why I compared the two timelines.

 

[Doc Holliday]

My understanding is that 777X is also another version of 777, just like series 60 was another version of DC-8, which is why I compared the two timelines.

Go back and reread the entire wiki article I posted. It clearly states why the delays are happening and the differences between the models.

 

[Bell206]

My understanding is that 777X is also another version of 777, just like series 60 was another version of DC-8, which is why I compared the two timelines.

After the MAX issues there was a change to how variant certifications where applied on a global level. While believe the 777x retained its variant classification, other "new" designs had to apply for a new TC. Regardless I recall reading the 777x had other issues resulting in several delays as well.

 

[murphey]

My understanding is that 777X is also another version of 777, just like series 60 was another version of DC-8, which is why I compared the two timelines.

Well....the 737-Max was "just another version of the 737" and if you've read the public reports, you understand why the decision was made, instead of a new design.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

DC-8 went from first flight to service in less than 1 year.
(It first flew on March 14, 1966, was certified on September 2, 1966, and entered service with United Airlines in February 1967, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-8).

777X flew in January 2020, and it still has not been certified 5 years later.

How is this possible?

1) It's not 1966 any more.
2) Covid-19.
3) 737 Max issue and the FAA's reluctance to rubber stamp certifications afterwards, especially from Boeing.
4) All of Boeing's business issues leading to slowdowns
5) 777X specific issues posted above by @Doc Holliday above.

 

[clear_prop]

The 777X is advertised as just an improved 777, but has new composite wings, a new wider fuselage and numerous other changes basically making it a new plane that Boeing is pretending is just a 777 variant.

It is having standard new plane with a new engine type issues, with the added challenge of modern CAD allowing designing exactly to the safety margins in theory, but in reality sometimes missing a bit, with the resulting cracks as mentioned up thread.

 

[Velocity173]

Because Tyler Perry is in charge of testing.

 

[Groundpounder]

Because Tyler Perry is in charge of testing.

Dang beat me to it! His R/C airplane collection is amazing.

I had a friend that met him one day cause he wanted to learn all about the HondaJet he was flying. Said he was a really smart guy that asked some good questions, and is an uber aviation enthusiast.

 

[Velocity173]

Dang beat me to it! His R/C airplane collection is amazing.

I had a friend that met him one day cause he wanted to learn all about the HondaJet he was flying. Said he was a really smart guy that asked some good questions, and is an uber aviation enthusiast.

Yeah his custom aircraft are unbelievable. Excellent RC pilot ad well. I used to really be into the ducted fan jets but the increase in rules in recent years has pushed me out of the hobby.

 

[jayhawk74]

What I don't understand is that when the 737-MAXs had to be recertified the 737-MAX7 was used to certify the 737-MAX8 but the FAA won't certify the 737-MAX7

 

[Groundpounder]

What I don't understand is that when the 737-MAXs had to be recertified the 737-MAX7 was used to certify the 737-MAX8 but the FAA won't certify the 737-MAX7

What? The max 7 wasn't used to certify the max 8. The Max 8 was the first 737 Max variant to be certified. The 9 was next, and the 7 and 10 are the last two, which are tied up in certification issues.