What is the overhead for a DPE?

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DCR

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What are the main expenses for a DPE? Wondering about ongoing expenses, not the thousands of hours it takes to get to that status.
 
DCR said:
What are the main expenses for a DPE? Wondering about ongoing expenses, not the thousands of hours it takes to get to that status.
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Gasoline and payroll taxes.
 
DCR said:
What are the main expenses for a DPE? Wondering about ongoing expenses, not the thousands of hours it takes to get to that status.
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Apparently you are looking for some arbitrary answer since you won’t allow questions to help define what you are looking for.

There is no one size that fits all.
 
DCR said:
This is a really funny way of saying "I don't know", but also exceedingly common in aviation.
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It's really just a short way of saying, "It depends on the details, if you tell us more about the specific circumstance, perhaps why you're asking and what you're trying to figure out, we could provide useful information."

I'm sure for some, like those who have no office, do no check rides, do nothing to maintain their designation, and carry no insurance, texasclouds is correct. For others, it's way off. So do you want an arbitrary number, or do you want something that's relevant to the actual situation you're inquiring about?
 
DCR said:
This is a really funny way of saying "I don't know", but also exceedingly common in aviation.
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No. It's like saying, you, the questioner, need to give more info so a relevant answer can be given. What part of the country? How much driving? Full spectrum DPE, or more specific, like helicopter or glider vs run-of-the-mill private pilot stuff or multi-focused all could factor in.
 
DCR said:
What are the main expenses for a DPE? Wondering about ongoing expenses, not the thousands of hours it takes to get to that status.
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From the little I know, DPE's must maintain a valid flight instructor certificate, all the usual recency experience for serving as PIC, and 60 hours of PIC time every 12 months (checkride time does not count). I am sure there is more.

There was a reddit post some time ago. Take it for what it's worth -
https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/17waqo5/demystifying_dpe_checkride_fees_a_personal_and
 
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Doc Holliday said:
How do you know that I don’t know?
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Sorry, there is a second option. You either:

A) Don't know, or...
B) Don't know how to answer a question

Watch this:

"Hey Bob, how much does a plane cost"

Would you say:

A) Why?
B) It depends
C) Do you want a jet or a piston aircraft?
D) About $100k for a weekend traveller and a few mil for a jet

Broad questions get broad answers - no big deal! If I want more I'll ask a follow up.
 
DCR said:
Sorry, there is a second option. You either:

A) Don't know, or...
B) Don't know how to answer a question

Watch this:

"Hey Bob, how much does a plane cost"

Would you say:

A) Why?
B) It depends
C) Do you want a jet or a piston aircraft?
D) About $100k for a weekend traveller and a few mil for a jet

Broad questions get broad answers - no big deal! If I want more I'll ask a follow up.
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Third option is you don't want to hear a rational answer. ;)
 
Answer to your original question:

"I'm curious what DPEs pay for overhead. Don't care about the details, just want to know some common ones."
 
4RNB said:
I asked a DPE friend to respond, they took a look at the OP not answering valid questions pertaining to his own topic and thus decided not to answer.
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Then he or she is also option B) from my second to last post! Not surprising, apparently most of the aviation community doesn't know how to answer a question.
 
DCR said:
Answer to your original question:

"I'm curious what DPEs pay for overhead. Don't care about the details, just want to know some common ones."
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A very basic answer to your question is going to assume it is someone who is essentially a full-time DPE, i.e., the overhead costs they incur are not also related to other aviation activities they are involved in.

For simplicity, assume they maintain a home office. That has expenses associated with it, same as any other professional who maintains a home office.

They will likely maintain some form of non-renters/CFI insurance. The cost/coverage could vary widely depending on the type of DPE/CFI work they do.

Costs for required recurrent training and to remain proficient (I think it is 60 hours PIC per yer). They have to remain proficient in whatever they are doing DPE work in (i.e., tailwheel, multi engine, etc). Keep in mind that the time needed for the recurrent training and proficiency flying is going to come out of the time they are available to give exams.

Regular payroll-type taxes, full share of FICA taxes, etc.
Health insurance (this could easily run $25k/year or more).

Costs for what would otherwise be overhead labor expenses if a regular employee - i.e., making enough to cover the equivalent of paid-time-off and sick time. (Figure on about 8% of the pay)

I would guesstimate that a DPE seeking the equivalent "salary" of $200,000/yr (which isn't unreasonable for high cost of living area, and probably on-par with what they could earn as a 135 Captain on a corporate jet) would need to charge the equivalent of about $1,500/day to make the numbers work.
 
Something, something, flies and honey. Sheesh what a rooster wagon way to extract answers out of an aviation community.


A few of the DPEs we preferred when we had the flight school had offices to maintain but I'm pretty sure it was a chicken and egg "which came first? the expense or the need for the writeoff?" situation.

I don't think actual overheads are anything more than cheeto dust in dollar terms. The costs for a DPE from where I sit are approximately in this order:

1. Opportunity cost. Most DPEs have quite lucrative flying jobs that pay a hell of a lot more than any checkride
2. Asspain cost. Most DPEs I know have the FAA way up their business, consistently, randomly, capriciously.
3. Straight up risk to person. Flying primary students is like 90+% of most DPE work I see. Those fools will kill you.
 
DCR said:
What are the main expenses for a DPE? Wondering about ongoing expenses, not the thousands of hours it takes to get to that status.
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Depends. I know a DPE that is busy enough to employ a full time scheduler/coordinator. Gives PPL - CFI and II, single and multi-fixed and rotary wing.

I know of another who operates off nothing but google docs.

Then there’s a third that maintains an office at the airport.

All of those things are just some ongoing expenses. I’m guessing they all also maintain an EFB.
 
In my experience, it seems to be pretty much all over the place.

- Some DPEs just have a home office (or even a "car" office). Others have an office they rent at the airport.
- Some DPEs just work at the nearest airport to their house. So, minimal transportation cost. Others travel all over a large area. Most drive, but some even fly to their checkrides.
- I believe there is some travel to OKC for DPE training.
- Professional liability insurance - I'm not sure if most DPEs have this or not.
- While most of the DPEs I've worked with are the one-person operation, call them directly to set up an appointment - type of DPEs, there are DPEs out there with website scheduling software and other similar business software products that have a cost.
- As mentioned above, some DPEs even hire a scheduling assistant.
- Of course, all the common office tools like computers and printers, paper and pens.

Then there's the flying-related stuff, which is possibly harder to categorize as whether it's for the DPE's DPE-ing, or other flying activities. I'd guess that most DPEs do at least some paid flying outside of checkrides, so how do you consider their iPad and EFB software costs? DPE overhead or equipment for their flying job? Same question for medical certification, various tools, even the clothes they wear.

If they have to pay to rent an airplane to get their 60 hours a year, that's clear overhead, but if they get it via a paid flying job, it's clearly not. What if they own a plane and fly it around for leisure or business? Overhead or not? Lots of crossover. Tax time must be entertaining.

I think it's fair to say that most DPEs have fairly low overhead compared to other professions, but it's definitely not zero. In this they are like most flight instructors - and really, in the aviation hierarchy a DPE is essentially the next higher level of instructor after all. So it makes sense that it would be pretty comparable.
 
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DCR said:
Sorry, there is a second option. You either:

A) Don't know, or...
B) Don't know how to answer a question

Watch this:

"Hey Bob, how much does a plane cost"

Would you say:

A) Why?
B) It depends
C) Do you want a jet or a piston aircraft?
D) About $100k for a weekend traveller and a few mil for a jet

Broad questions get broad answers - no big deal! If I want more I'll ask a follow up.
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It seems you think everyone here works for you or owes you something. You want your questions answered? That comes with overhead.
 
yes it did! Lots of complicated and esoteric answers to a simple question. There must be a back story here that I missed!

I have no idea, just speculation from a PPL's perspective that is a lot of years past his last checkride.....
so just spitballing a guess
- maintaining his FAA licenses and medical
- some sort of insurance
- maintaining a computer to do the paperwork stuff with the FAA (back when I did my checkrides the examiner used a portable typewriter and I assume submitted everything by us mail), scheduling, etc...
- commuting expenses (maybe, unless they restrict their rides to their own home airport)
- and I have no idea if there are any registration fees or similar to maintain the DPE status with the FAA... or costs to actually earn the DPE in the first place
 
Lindberg said:
It seems you think everyone here works for you or owes you something. You want your questions answered? That comes with overhead.
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Do you enjoy arguing on the internet? This is starting to get old.

Thanks to those who actually answered - I was simply curious and thought it might be interesting to talk about.
 
How do you evaluate headache and aggravation? Several of the DPEs I know have repeatedly expressed frustration with the increasing bureaucratic workload the FAA is placing on DPEs, to the point of several giving it up.
 
DCR said:
What are the main expenses for a DPE? Wondering about ongoing expenses, not the thousands of hours it takes to get to that status.
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Depends…is the IRS asking?

In all seriousness, the disposition of the OP leaves a lot to be desired. There are a lot of credible folks on this forum, and your disrespect for their honest questions seeking clarification doesn’t bode well.
 
Overhead basically zero( computer and cellphone), opportunity cost huge. Assuming someone qualified to be DPE could be a major airline or 135 pic making 200-500k with benefits that range from free healthcare (netjets) to 18% DC for 401k and MBCBP contributions

To make equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd year FO you probably need to bring in 300k in check ride fees. Cause you gotta cover medical, taxes, retirement. Except the FO at southwest is working 15 days a month, paid sick time, paid vacation, ability to swap and drop trips. DPE's gotta deal(assuming 300 checkrides a year at 1k a pop) with 300 applicants in various states of preparedness, scheduling, rescheduling, paperwork shenanigans, flying with dumbassess in 90 degree heat, and having tough conversations with 20-25% of them. Commercial pilot flys with another super qualified pilot, in an airconditioned jet, with dedicated support staff and has probably double the off days and whose only non flying responsibilities is an hour to two of CBTs once a quarter (that youre paid for).

So you could DPE with a cellphone and laptop from walmart for 200 bucks but your giving up a lot to do it full time.
 
falconkidding said:
So you could DPE with a cellphone and laptop from walmart for 200 bucks but your giving up a lot to do it full time.
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I dunno man, your version of opportunity cost and mine are clearly different. But setting that aside, by your description of the tradeoff they'd ought be hella easy to get, yet the "major FO" job is factually, statistically way easier to attain. Kinda crumbles the opportunity cost argument.

And before you ask, I have been a military DPE, with 15 years in the .mil equivalent of a training department; doesn't get more on-the-nose direct work experience than that. BL, there's more at play wit what's going on in the FAA DPE space than what you highlight.
 
Randomskylane said:
How about interest on the debt to get the rating?
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fwiw nobody does it to get to DPE. DPE is just a victory lap on the grab-a-nickel tour from the cripple kid's jar at the gas station, proverbially speaking. I'm no purist, I want in on the action, but according to my wife, my mouth keeps getting between what I want, and what I have in life. She says she loves me for it, username checks I guess.
 
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