What is the fascination with talking fast on the radio?

If you can't keep up with 95% of the controllers should you really be flying? They have a lot of other traffic to keep up with and speaking to you like you're a 5 year old child isn't doing anyone any favors.

"Chandler ground, good morning, Skylane 1234E. Chandler Air Service. South with Victor"
Boom. Done. couple seconds MAX. I don't need to be spoon fed, and neither do they.
 
I try to emulate ATC. If they're rushed sounding, I try to be quicker on the radio. During slower times, I talk at a normal conversation pace.
 
ClimbnSink said:
You talk fast in NY, because it is busy and it is NY. Just be happy they don't drop F bombs every sentence.
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They do, it just goes by so fast that you don't notice.
 
MAKG1 said:
XXX Ground Bugsmasher 12345 at YYY taxi 18 with Papa.

That's 10 words, same information.

Just say it like Forrest Gump so they can understand....
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Nothing wrong with saying 'information blah' its proper terminology and if you speak with even cadence, the point gets made without undue time on transmission.

Also using 'roger' 'wilco' 'over' 'affirmative or affirm' 'negative' 'copy' 'say again' are key.

Saying altitude correctly - one-two-thousand, not twelve thousand, tree for three, and niner, not nine is as important as trying to eliminate clarity or connecting words.

The key is not to shoot out a stochastic, fast, terse, almost code like sentences. Its to use accepted terminology, in the proper order, with a clear tone and without big pauses or incorrect information.

If you ever want to hear improper radio use, fly into Unicom and listen to all the personal and improper comms going on. And bite your tongue, most of them are locals and don't want you messing with their 'fun'
 
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When you know what to expect from the controller's NEXT transmission is when you become at ease and with confidence on talking to ATC.

Naturally, when you start out, you won't know that.

In some way's the airliners have it easier, they just listen to the previous guy they are following in. US VFR wanderers do everything different. Some VFR, some flight following VFR and some IFR. Some students. Those controllers never know what we're going to do next!
 
One if the best things that happened to me a a student was getting chewed out by another instructor for talking too fast. I didn't have a clue I was even doing it.
 
Z06_Mir said:
If you can't keep up with 95% of the controllers should you really be flying? They have a lot of other traffic to keep up with and speaking to you like you're a 5 year old child isn't doing anyone any favors.

"Chandler ground, good morning, Skylane 1234E. Chandler Air Service. South with Victor"
Boom. Done. couple seconds MAX. I don't need to be spoon fed, and neither do they.
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I agree. There are very few times I've heard controllers not pronouncing their words clearly while talking fast.

I really don't see a problem with people talking fast these days only people who can't keep up. I don't know how many times I've heard students or junior pilots read back the wrong instructions from ATC because 1) they can't compartmentalize the act of flying from talking and 2) they're clueless on what's required to be read back so they try everything verbatim and it comes out sounding like crap. Then of course there's the old guys who simply can't remember or can't hear anymore. ATC gets frustrated and all it does is take time away from calls that they need to be making calls to other aircraft.
 
CTLSi said:
Saying altitude correctly - one-two-thousand, not twelve thousand, tree for three, and niner, not nine is as important as trying to eliminate clarity or connecting words.
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I've have found personally that if clarity is of most importance, then actually saying your altitude 'normally' is more clear. "N1234, eleven-thousand-five-hundred-feet" is more readily understandable than "N1234, one-one thousand five hundred feet". It's a bit like when you look at a steam gauge or a watch - you can immediately tell the altitude or time, whereas with a speed tape number or digital watch you have to 'compute' the information first. In fact, I hear ATC all the time clarify their altitudes by saying first the correct phraseology and then saying it again in plain language just because it's more clear. Very often you hear: "Southwest 1234, descent maintain one seven thousand, that's seventeen thousand, report arriving" or something along them lines.

I know it's not correct, but it's just less ambiguous in plain language and needs no computing.
 
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stratobee said:
I've have found personally that if clarity is of most importance, then actually saying your altitude 'normally' is more clear. "N1234, eleven-thousand-five-hundred-feet" is more readily understandable than "N1234, one-one thousand five hundred feet". It's a bit like when you look at a steam gauge or a watch - you can immediately tell the altitude or time, whereas with a speed tape number or digital watch you have to 'compute' the information first. In fact, I hear ATC all the time clarify their altitudes by saying first the correct phraseology and then saying it again in plain language just because it's more clear. Very often you hear: "Southwest 1234, descent maintain one seven thousand, that's seventeen thousand, report arriving" or something along them lines.

I know it's not correct, but it's just less ambiguous in plain language and needs no computing.
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I've told ATC at more than one class d that I am "one zero miles" in some direction and they flip out thinking that I am 1 mile from them. Etc. Etc. I finally just say ten and haven't had a problem.
 
jesse said:
I've told ATC at more than one class d that I am "one zero miles" in some direction and they flip out thinking that I am 1 mile from them. Etc. Etc. I finally just say ten and haven't had a problem.
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Exactly. I do the same.

Funny story, I had an old instructor that taught me how to fly my current plane. He's got 18000hrs in type alone, so pretty weathered. When he calls up with his call sign, he just does it plain language: N Two Zero Ess Rrrr (for N20SR), hissing like an old snake. I thought ATC would finally tell him off on a long cross country, but not only did they not, they never missed his callsign either! I was amazed.
 
CTLSi said:
Nothing wrong with saying 'information blah' its proper terminology and if you speak with even cadence, the point gets made without undue time on transmission.

Also using 'roger' 'wilco' 'over' 'affirmative or affirm' 'negative' 'copy' 'say again' are key.

Saying altitude correctly - one-two-thousand, not twelve thousand, tree for three, and niner, not nine is as important as trying to eliminate clarity or connecting words.

The key is not to shoot out a stochastic, fast, terse, almost code like sentences. Its to use accepted terminology, in the proper order, with a clear tone and without big pauses or incorrect information.

If you ever want to hear improper radio use, fly into Unicom and listen to all the personal and improper comms going on. And bite your tongue, most of them are locals and don't want you messing with their 'fun'
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"Shawnee traffic, base, Shawnee traffic"

That's the worst one I've heard so far. Also going back through logs and hearing uuuuhhhhh on a lot of calls is pretty irritating too. I heard myself for the first time in the logs and I couldn't understand myself and I made the call!

Since then I've slowed down a lot. Most of the transmissions are only like 4 seconds long it it feels like eternity when you're talking. Being concise and annunciating properly only takes like two seconds more!
 
If you break your message up to the funadamentals like Jordan suggests, it might sound fast but it really isn't.

My typical comms:
'Good morning Gillespie Ground, Citabria 1682G is Speer with Alpha for the Left'

They reply with taxi instructions and I read back just the important bits:

'27L via Delta, cross 35, 82G'.

Same for takeoff:

'Good morning Gillespie Tower, Citabria 1682G, holding short 27L for North departure.'

Coming back in the area I usually give them position, information and intention (landing) 'with request' then ask for the overhead or close pattern with early turns and short approaches, etc.

If you keep it simple you don't need to increase your pace unless the frequency is really busy, and then I do it to avoid blocking/getting blocked - that sense comes with experience so if you are new, just be clear and brief.

'Gimp
 
AcroGimp said:
Coming back in the area I usually give them position, information and intention (landing) 'with request' then ask for the overhead or close pattern with early turns and short approaches, etc.

If you keep it simple you don't need to increase your pace unless the frequency is really busy, and then I do it to avoid blocking/getting blocked - that sense comes with experience so if you are new, just be clear and brief.

'Gimp
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Do they still allow LAHSO for 35 out there? I used to report STOL and req 35 LASHO cuz I parked on the SE side. There was a guy waiting to cross 35 once as I slipped hard down final to hit the numbers and stop before 27 and he looked at me like I was gonna dent his shiny little Cessna/Piper something. :yesnod:
 
stratobee said:
Exactly. I do the same.

Funny story, I had an old instructor that taught me how to fly my current plane. He's got 18000hrs in type alone, so pretty weathered. When he calls up with his call sign, he just does it plain language: N Two Zero Ess Rrrr (for N20SR), hissing like an old snake. I thought ATC would finally tell him off on a long cross country, but not only did they not, they never missed his callsign either! I was amazed.
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Genius. For me, the difference in call sign length would be 4 syllables. From seven to three. Doesn't sound like that much but 6JS the one way is much quicker than the other.

Not sure I have enough gravel in my voice to keep from getting bitched at tho. :D

I do hear a fair number of pilots throw out plain language 3-digit call signs after initial callup. "two eff tee" instead of "two foxtrot tango" for example.
 
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petrolero said:
And read back the #}%^* runway number every time ATC says it.
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Yes! This is key. Every time tower gives you a runway number read it back! There are countless times I've heard tower say, "Cessna 12345, runway XX cleared for takeoff." And they will get a response, "Cleared for take off, Cessna 12345." Saying the numbers helps and makes sure pilots are lining up on the correct runway.
 
jordane93 said:
I've noticed it more and more. 9/10 times ATC tells the pilot "say again" and it causes more clutter on the frequency. We really need to teach students to slow things down, enunciate with proper phraseology, and teach them that comms. are not a race who can speak the fastest. What say you POA?
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Little boys get excited in their toys and talk fast :goofy:
 
docmirror said:
Do they still allow LAHSO for 35 out there? I used to report STOL and req 35 LASHO cuz I parked on the SE side. There was a guy waiting to cross 35 once as I slipped hard down final to hit the numbers and stop before 27 and he looked at me like I was gonna dent his shiny little Cessna/Piper something. :yesnod:
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I haven't heard LAHSO in a while at KSEE or elsewhere but 35 would be OK (~3300-3500' I think to 27L), not sure about 17 unless you're in a bushplane (~800').

I can get the Citabria's down and stopped at the first taxiway (D4) on 27L (~700'), usually cleared to cross 35 on taxi, seldom hold but usually it's for helo traffic coming out of Skid Row (SE) and departing over 35.

'Gimp
 
Velocity173 said:
I agree. There are very few times I've heard controllers not pronouncing their words clearly while talking fast.

I really don't see a problem with people talking fast these days only people who can't keep up. I don't know how many times I've heard students or junior pilots read back the wrong instructions from ATC because 1) they can't compartmentalize the act of flying from talking and 2) they're clueless on what's required to be read back so they try everything verbatim and it comes out sounding like crap. Then of course there's the old guys who simply can't remember or can't hear anymore. ATC gets frustrated and all it does is take time away from calls that they need to be making calls to other aircraft.
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I flew with an instrument rated private pilot who couldn't do basic stuff on the radios. He talked fine but wrote down every word, including the entire atis. I don't see any need for that or when ATC says turn 050 you need to write it. But that's another story. He couldn't compartmentalize at all, he wasn't trained to sadly.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I flew with an instrument rated private pilot who couldn't do basic stuff on the radios. He talked fine but wrote down every word, including the entire atis. I don't see any need for that or when ATC says turn 050 you need to write it. But that's another story. He couldn't compartmentalize at all, he wasn't trained to sadly.
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That's not good at all. Especially if he is flying and actual and has to multi task. In my limited time in actual, I've never felt overwhelmed even though I was getting descents, vectors to the ILS, frequency changes, setting the approach up in the GPS, etc. I was trained properly and I'm able to handle it as every properly trained IR pilot should be.I 've also seen pilots who couldn't fly and talk at the same time. For example, I was flying with a pilot to KRIC and we were shooting an ILS. We were in IMC pretty much from 3000 ft to 700 when we broke out. ATC told us, "Cherokee 12345, turn heading XXX, descend and maintain XXXX until established on the localizer, cleared ILS XX." The pilot could did not turn or descend until he was finished and by the time he finished transmitting he almost blew past the approach course. I was taught not to wait to descend/climb or change headings and start changes while still talking to ATC.
 
jordane93 said:
That's not good at all. Especially if he is flying and actual and has to multi task. In my limited time in actual, I've never felt overwhelmed even though I was getting descents, vectors to the ILS, frequency changes, setting the approach up in the GPS, etc. I was trained properly and I'm able to handle it as every properly trained IR pilot should be.I 've also seen pilots who couldn't fly and talk at the same time. For example, I was flying with a pilot to KRIC and we were shooting an ILS. We were in IMC pretty much from 3000 ft to 700 when we broke out. ATC told us, "Cherokee 12345, turn heading XXX, descend and maintain XXXX until established on the localizer, cleared ILS XX." The pilot could did not turn or descend until he was finished and by the time he finished transmitting he almost blew past the approach course. I was taught not to wait to descend/climb or change headings and start changes while still talking to ATC.
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Not waiting till ATC is finished giving instruction before acting? Sounds like Russian Roulette.

Suppose you get: 'turn to heading 110, descend and maintain 1500' you make the turn and begin descent and the rest comes 'avoid traffic westbound at 9 o'clock' which is right at you at decent altitude and just off your heading? Wouldn't you want to hear before acknowledging and complying?
 
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CTLSi said:
Not waiting till ATC is finished giving instruction before acting? Sounds like Russian Roulette.

Suppose you get: 'turn to heading 110, descend and maintain 1500' you make the turn and begin descent and the rest comes 'avoid traffic westbound at 9 o'clock' which is right at you at decent altitude and just off your heading? Wouldn't you want to hear before acknowledging and complying?
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If you're IFR that shouldn't be a problem. That is the controllers fault for not giving you good separation. I'd much rather start the turn and descent than blow through the localizer in IMC.
 
jordane93 said:
If you're IFR that shouldn't be a problem. That is the controllers fault for not giving you good separation. I'd much rather start the turn and descent than blow through the localizer in IMC.
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Agreed. And I say it's the controllers fault in your example that didn't allow your friend to make his maneuver after listening to the entire call first...
 
Mistake Not... said:
"Memphis Center, Mooney 999AB, departing Cape Girardeau, request"
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Request is spurious.
"Mooney 999AB is a M20P, like to get flight following to Huntsville (Hotel, Sierra, Victor) at 7500"
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Sounds fine to me other than the omission of the current altitude if not 7500.

Is your callsign really 999AB? That's probably part of the problem. We've found that ATC has a hard time with repeated digits.

I tend to put all the information in the same transmission however.

Memphis Center, Navion FIFE TREE TOO SEVEN KEE-LO.

Navion 5327K, Memphis Center.

Navion 5327K is five miles east of Cape Giradeau at 5,500 climing 7,500, request flight following at 7500 to Hotel Sierra Victor Huntsville.

usually the only issue I get is that they don't know what the code for a Navion is.
 
jordane93 said:
I would even shorten that to, "XXX Ground, Bugshmasher 12345, YYY, Taxi with Papa"
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You usually need to tell them where you are. Short at an airport in a class B or C where they already know what you're going to do: "Dulles Ground Navion 5327K, Landmark, Taxi." (CD usually checks whether you have the ATIS). They don't assume you're going to somewhere other than the runway if you've gotten a departure clearance.
 
Ground, 123AB, Flight school, Papa, taxi, northbound departure.
 
After being a pilot for a while, the Fast Talking High Trousers seem preeeeettttyyyy sssslooooooooooowww. :D

I absolutely agree on the pauses on frequency being annoying. But I am a sinner too. :( I am aware of is sometimes inserting an "uhhhhhh" when I don't remember WTF airplane I am flying today. :) Sometimes there's a placard on the dash, sometimes there's a post-it and sometimes I find a bandaid with the tail number. :lol:
So if you hear me on the frequency reading back fast and then pausing "uhhhhhh four-tango-kilo", please please forgive an old fart who can't remember which metal tube he's in.
 
flyingron said:
You usually need to tell them where you are. Short at an airport in a class B or C where they already know what you're going to do: "Dulles Ground Navion 5327K, Landmark, Taxi." (CD usually checks whether you have the ATIS). They don't assume you're going to somewhere other than the runway if you've gotten a departure clearance.
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YYY is where I'm at.
 
flyingron said:
Request is spurious.
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I know I've seen a recommendation to ask this way, but they do seem, well, weary, when I do it and when I hear other people do it.

Is your callsign really 999AB? That's probably part of the problem. We've found that ATC has a hard time with repeated digits.
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Nope, but mine does have a couple of repeating digits.

I tend to put all the information in the same transmission however.

Navion 5327K, Memphis Center.

Navion 5327K is five miles east of Cape Giradeau at 5,500 climing 7,500, request flight following at 7500 to Hotel Sierra Victor Huntsville.
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Nice. I'll try this next time.

usually the only issue I get is that they don't know what the code for a Navion is.
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Or a mooney, most of the time. :)
 
jordane93 said:
Yes! This is key. Every time tower gives you a runway number read it back! There are countless times I've heard tower say, "Cessna 12345, runway XX cleared for takeoff." And they will get a response, "Cleared for take off, Cessna 12345." Saying the numbers helps and makes sure pilots are lining up on the correct runway.
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I am guilty of this...

When I call up tower after my run up I tell them the runway I am at:

"XXX Tower, Cessna 1234, ready at 17R south departure."

"Cessna 1234, cleared for takeoff 17R, south departure approved"

"Cleared for takeoff, 234"

I guess I just don't see the point of reading back the runway assignment a third time.
 
FWTxPilot said:
I am guilty of this...

When I call up tower after my run up I tell them the runway I am at:

"XXX Tower, Cessna 1234, ready at 17R south departure."

"Cessna 1234, cleared for takeoff 17R, south departure approved"

"Cleared for takeoff, 234"

I guess I just don't see the point of reading back the runway assignment a third time.
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I can dig that. I don't think controllers are given much discretion about this any longer, at least at towered fields with parallel rwys. The rash of rwy incursions caused them to become sticklers for runway and hold short readbacks.
 
warthog1984 said:
XXX Ground, Bugsmasher 1 2 3 4 5, at YYY, with Information Papa, Request Taxi to the Active. 18 words, sometimes a few more. Hard to pare it down much more without getting cryptic.
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Xxx ground, graveldragger 234A, YYY, (cardinal direction), papa. 7-9 words. Ground is expecting to hear certain information and if you say that information without the unnecessary "we are at", " with information", "would like to taxi" (really, why are you calling ground if you aren't requesting a taxi clearance?) I teach my students to get concise information across clearly without the umms and annnds. It doesn't mean talking fast like an auctioneer, but to cut out the fat and bundle it in a package that can be understood by everyone listening.
 
docmirror said:
Graveldragger 234A, say intention/request.
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So if you want to fly west bound, it would sound like "XXX graveldigger 1234A, east ramp, west bound, bravo." Is the word "departing" necessary? No. You only do a few things and taxiing westbound is not one of them. Taxing to a specific part of the airport is a location and ground would give you taxi instructions with taxi ways, hold shorts, intersections. West bound is a direction. You must depart.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Clear communication is one thing but adding unnecessary words that are redundant is not needed and if everyone does the droll of unnecessary words, it makes communication clogged especially during that first sunny weekend of the summer.

Lets put it this way: if you requested a taxi clearance from your plane to the fuel pumps, would you say "I would like to request a taxi clearance from the central ramp to the fuel pump to fill up my airplane with gas" or would you say "central ramp, request taxi to fuel pumps". Both get the same exact information across but one is longer and takes up more radio time. The first one has a lot of unnecessary information because it is redundant since you only do one thing at the fuel pumps. The second has the request for a taxi to the fuel pumps where you will fill up your plane with gas. Just like with the cardnial direction thing, you can try to taxi westbound all you want, but eventually you run out of airport, so logic says you are departing.
 
FWTxPilot said:
I am guilty of this...

When I call up tower after my run up I tell them the runway I am at:

"XXX Tower, Cessna 1234, ready at 17R south departure."

"Cessna 1234, cleared for takeoff 17R, south departure approved"

"Cleared for takeoff, 234"

I guess I just don't see the point of reading back the runway assignment a third time.
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Yesterday when I was waiting to take off from torrance

"Torrance Tower, N366CA holding short 29R for right downwind departure"

"6CA hold short of 29R"

"holding short 29R"

"6CA I need your call sign with hold short readback"

"sorry 6CA holding short 29R"

I just missed my call sign and didn't even realize it, but from talking with a controller this is a legal issue. They have to have it on their tapes because of runway incursions. Basically saves their ass if you go somewhere you shouldn't and cause an incident. Sometimes if it's a single runway airport they will let you slide on the numbers, but by the book you are supposed to read back all runway assignments and hold short instructions. It's even printed in big letters on every airport diagram I've seen.
 
StinkBug said:
Yesterday when I was waiting to take off from torrance

"Torrance Tower, N366CA holding short 29R for right downwind departure"

"6CA hold short of 29R"

"holding short 29R"

"6CA I need your call sign with hold short readback"

"sorry 6CA holding short 29R"

I just missed my call sign and didn't even realize it, but from talking with a controller this is a legal issue. They have to have it on their tapes because of runway incursions. Basically saves their ass if you go somewhere you shouldn't and cause an incident. Sometimes if it's a single runway airport they will let you slide on the numbers, but by the book you are supposed to read back all runway assignments and hold short instructions. It's even printed in big letters on every airport diagram I've seen.
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Yep. It's especially important to readback runway assignments on parallel runways.
 
If I don't state my request on initial call up with approach, they'll just guess and clear me for something.
 
StinkBug said:
Yesterday when I was waiting to take off from torrance

"Torrance Tower, N366CA holding short 29R for right downwind departure"

"6CA hold short of 29R"

"holding short 29R"

"6CA I need your call sign with hold short readback"

"sorry 6CA holding short 29R"

I just missed my call sign and didn't even realize it, but from talking with a controller this is a legal issue. They have to have it on their tapes because of runway incursions. Basically saves their ass if you go somewhere you shouldn't and cause an incident. Sometimes if it's a single runway airport they will let you slide on the numbers, but by the book you are supposed to read back all runway assignments and hold short instructions. It's even printed in big letters on every airport diagram I've seen.
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At least you read back "holding short of 29R." A lot of pilots just come back with a roger. That won't cut it. They need your callsign and the reaffirmation of holding short of the runway.
 
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