What is my next plane?

swingwing

swingwing

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Swingwing
Well my family is growing up and I am starting to look for my next plane. We are outgrowing the 172. Also, my business is streching its legs and a faster plane would help ( and there is the justification :wink2:) Here is the must haves in my next plane, what fits the bill?

True 4 adults with bagage
Good IFR platform
700 miles plus- non stop
150 knot plus cruise
Must be able to operate out of a 2000' grass strip ( we have a vacation house 100 miles away on a field that we fly into a few weekends per month. Right now the 172 is ideal for this.)
Not a must, but Know Ice a plus
Purchase price less than 400k
 
I don't think there are any FIKI options until you get to the 200 series on the Cessna side. Thinking a FIKI 210 if you can find one would cover all the bases you mentioned.

The TR182 will do all the other stuff but not FIKI. You can get ice protection for a 182 but not certified FIKI.

Some Bo's have FIKI too - there's a guy with one in the hangar next to mine. Wait... I'm not sure his is FIKI certified.

Not sure about the Cirrus as far as short field capability but they exist that do all the other stuff (I'm just assuming there are used FIKI models out there under $400k)

Saratogas
 
the usual suspects: A36, Saratoga, C210. If you want to fill 4 seats then you need 6.

If you want known ice that's another step up, IMO in additon to the boots/props/windshield you need turbos and minimum 500HP.
 
210 or Bo or high end Mooney...a Malibu would get you there also

for half a mil and C-90 might work, I'd stretch for it.
 
swingwing said:
Well my family is growing up and I am starting to look for my next plane. We are outgrowing the 172. Also, my business is streching its legs and a faster plane would help ( and there is the justification :wink2:) Here is the must haves in my next plane, what fits the bill?

True 4 adults with bagage
Good IFR platform
700 miles plus- non stop
150 knot plus cruise
Must be able to operate out of a 2000' grass strip ( we have a vacation house 100 miles away on a field that we fly into a few weekends per month. Right now the 172 is ideal for this.)
Not a must, but Know Ice a plus
Purchase price less than 400k
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SR.-22 but you are limited on baggage. An A-36 Bonanza, a big bore long body Mooney, a PA-46. I'd also seriously upgrading to a twin, a 310, Baron, or potentially Seneca.
 
JHW said:
the usual suspects: A36, Saratoga, C210. If you want to fill 4 seats then you need 6.

If you want known ice that's another step up, IMO in additon to the boots/props/windshield you need turbos and minimum 500HP.
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The TKS people said they would do a windshield system for my 310. I was thinking about getting deicing back and didn't want alcohol or a hot strip/plate, I hate those. The hot pad airframe stuff from Kelly shows real promise, I tried to buy it, but they don't seem to want to market the stuff for retrofit though.:dunno:
 
Clark1961 said:
good thing for me I don't have a half a mil laying around...
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give me a little warning if you're coming to look at it, so i can hose off some of the sheep manure from the underside
 
Bonanza A36 or Cessna 210. The Cessna Skylane 182 could possibly work as well since there are plenty of STOL mods for short strips.
 
JHW said:
give me a little warning if you're coming to look at it, so i can hose off some of the sheep manure from the underside
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Don't worry, I don't even know where Tas is...
 
$400K?

You will never outgrow or overload a turbo Stationair.

If ultra short field performance fully loaded is wanted, .... King Katmai.
 
Malibu is a mini airliner. Gorgeous plane and in your price range. Saratoga would also be a great option.
 
swingwing said:
Well my family is growing up and I am starting to look for my next plane. We are outgrowing the 172. Also, my business is streching its legs and a faster plane would help ( and there is the justification :wink2:) Here is the must haves in my next plane, what fits the bill?

True 4 adults with bagage
Good IFR platform
700 miles plus- non stop
150 knot plus cruise
Must be able to operate out of a 2000' grass strip ( we have a vacation house 100 miles away on a field that we fly into a few weekends per month. Right now the 172 is ideal for this.)
Not a must, but Know Ice a plus
Purchase price less than 400k
Click to expand...

get proficient in it, and will do the job well
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1964/Cessna/210D/1761386.html

with a lot of budget left to upgrade.
 
You got that much cash, f' it and just buy a turbine 210.

FIKI, pressurized, easily meets your requirments, less of a failure rate, real deice systems based on turbine bleed air, done.
 
Clark1961 said:
210 or Bo or high end Mooney...a Malibu would get you there also

for half a mil and C-90 might work, I'd stretch for it.
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A Malibu into a 2,000 ft grass field isn't doable with any degree of safety. Everything would have to be absolutely perfect for you to get off the ground and you'd be doing so with no runway left. There would have to be no obstacles for a considerable distance after that. Make the grass long or soft and a crash would be the result.

Might be doable with a turbine up front but I've never flown one with a turbine.
 
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Commander 114/115, Trinidad TB-20, no FIKI on those but it meets the other qualifications. 114B range would be a bit shy all loaded up, but I think it'll get 700NM+ on full fuel with the 70 gal tanks and 55% power (150kts).
 
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Swingwing you need to add to your list what you're prepared to pay on an hourly basis. Otherwise you're going to get endless nutty suggestions that are low on the up front cost but high on the hourly cost. Just sayin'
 
SoonerAviator said:
Commander 114/115, Trinidad TB-20, no FIKI on those but it meets the other qualifications. (150kts).
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Are those planes going to work on a 2000' grass strip with four passengers and fuel for 700nm? I wouldn't have thought so, but maybe I'm underestimating them.

The A36/C210/C206 suggestions above seem more appropriate for the situation to me. Not sure 4 seats is really going to cut it.
 
dukeblue219 said:
Are those planes going to work on a 2000' grass strip with four passengers and fuel for 700nm? I wouldn't have thought so, but maybe I'm underestimating them.

The A36/C210/C206 suggestions above seem more appropriate for the situation to me. Not sure 4 seats is really going to cut it.
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To my knowledge (which is limited), they'll both clear 50ft in 2,000 ft at max gross and enough fuel for 700nm, but that leaves ~700lbs or so for pax, so the weight of the pax is the key issue.
 
Henning said:
The TKS people said they would do a windshield system for my 310. I was thinking about getting deicing back and didn't want alcohol or a hot strip/plate, I hate those. The hot pad airframe stuff from Kelly shows real promise, I tried to buy it, but they don't seem to want to market the stuff for retrofit though.:dunno:
Click to expand...

Good to know I'm not the only one who thinks that ThermaWing technology looks very interesting. There should be enough value in the retrofit market for someone to license the technology from Kelly and make it available to the bugsmasher retrofit market... well maybe.

The trouble with FIKI retrofitting is the prohibitive cost of certification. And if I'm not certified then I'm still not gonna risk my ticket by getting busted flying in what could be considered 'known' ice (I've read the threads on its definition... :mad2: ). So if I'm staying away from ice for that reason, then the relative value of ice protection is much lower.

So I'm guessing all that reduces the size of the potential retrofit market and is why Kelly isn't bothering with it.:dunno:

Anyway ThermaWing looks badass.
 
swingwing said:
Well my family is growing up and I am starting to look for my next plane. We are outgrowing the 172. Also, my business is streching its legs and a faster plane would help ( and there is the justification :wink2:) Here is the must haves in my next plane, what fits the bill?

True 4 adults with bagage
Good IFR platform
700 miles plus- non stop
150 knot plus cruise
Must be able to operate out of a 2000' grass strip ( we have a vacation house 100 miles away on a field that we fly into a few weekends per month. Right now the 172 is ideal for this.)
Not a must, but Know Ice a plus
Purchase price less than 400k
Click to expand...


Just thinking a little outside the box here....

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-AIRVAN/2003-GIPPSAERO-GA8-AIRVAN/1346101.htm
 
You don't need FIKI to save your life, you need FIKI certification to continue on a revenue flight. To save your life Pt 91, all you need is equipment that works. There is no Pt.91 flight that should depart into Known Icing in my opinion. Hell, I know 757 captains that aren't fond of it either.
 
falcon1.jpg
 
Henning said:
There is no Pt.91 flight that should depart into Known Icing in my opinion.
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I agree. If I need to get somewhere I'll fly commercial. Although that still doesn't guarantee me getting to my destination:D
 
jordane93 said:
I agree. If I need to get somewhere I'll fly commercial. Although that still doesn't guarantee me getting to my destination:D
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I just stay underneath, I love crossing the country at 250' or below and 180kts. I have gotten through when airlines sat.:D
 
Henning said:
You don't need FIKI to save your life, you need FIKI certification to continue on a revenue flight. To save your life Pt 91, all you need is equipment that works. There is no Pt.91 flight that should depart into Known Icing in my opinion. Hell, I know 757 captains that aren't fond of it either.
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Concur.

I'm not getting anywhere near any kind of possible icing conditions without certified FIKI. It's just not worth my ticket to try and decipher whether I should have known or not. So it causes me to give freezing clouds a pretty wide berth - many would say excessively wide. Having certification would allow me to narrow that somewhat. But yeah I have no desire to fly into truly known ice.
 
Henning said:
Never buy a product like that from a place where the national work and engineering standard is "She be right mate." :nonod::nonod::nonod:
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At least now they don't have to worry about outsourcing the customer service to India.... India owns them... :rofl:
 
Henning said:
You don't need FIKI to save your life, you need FIKI certification to continue on a revenue flight. To save your life Pt 91, all you need is equipment that works. There is no Pt.91 flight that should depart into Known Icing in my opinion. Hell, I know 757 captains that aren't fond of it either.
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Icing in a small GA airplane is a whole world difference from icing in a large transport jet. The only thing that ever kept me on the ground in a jet was moderate or better freezing rain.
 
Great advise. FIKI is out. When I really consider what I would fly in it is not needed. Just an unnecessary cost.

I like 210s but the ones I'm familiar with are mantenance pigs. A guy was ready to give me his after a 60k annual.

No twins. Too much fuel

I had a straight legged 182 that I really miss. I wasn't even consider an 182RG until I just looked at the specs. A lot faster than I expected. For most of my missions it would be ideal. Economical to operate and good on grass.


Also I need to rethink what I am willing to spend. First off I don't have 400 laying around to spend on something with little ROI and more importantly the divorce that ensure after telling my wife I just spent more on a plane than our house would not be fun:D

Thanks for the help!
 
Look at a Katmai, pretty good speed with straight legs and unreal low speed performance.
 
180/185 hasn't been mentioned, but it would be perfect for four people and a 2000' strip.

It's the same as a 182 minus the nose wheel. You could buy a cherry for 100-150$K.

And your swag factor would increase exponentially...:rockon:
 
txflyer said:
180/185 hasn't been mentioned, but it would be perfect for four people and a 2000' strip.

It's the same as a 182 minus the nose wheel. You could buy a cherry for 100-150$K.

And your swag factor would increase exponentially...:rockon:
Click to expand...

No it's not, unless you are buying an old 182, the 182 will be wider with more shoulder room than a 180 or 185.
 
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