well If this study is legit, seems the few pilots that responded only validated the idea that the runway is not needed. But it isn’t until figure 9 the real reasons are shown. But this is another example of failure of all pilots that may be affected provide input.
What is Going on at KBJC (Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport)/Cost to Relocate Port a Port Hangar
- Thread starter Penguinforce
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well If this study is legit, seems the few pilots that responded only validated the idea that the runway is not needed. But it isn’t until figure 9 the real reasons are shown. But this is another example of failure of all pilots that may be affected provide input.
bflynn
Final Approach
to do this in 30 days seems like an unreasonable time frame.
What's the "or else" in your ground lease? There might be an avenue in your lease valuation if the new location is considered less desirable.
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
I’m not 100% sure what the or else is but I believe they would demolish or take possession. As per the lease, we only get a 30 day written notice from the airport manager to relocate the hangar but it doesn’t explicitly say what would happen if we don’t. It does say that upon termination of the lease, the lessee would surrender the premises and if within 10 days of lease termination we don’t remove all of our property, the hangar would become property of the county. But I don’t know if failure to relocate the hangar counts as termination of the lease
I would carefully read your lease line by line and see what your responsibilities are and the consequences for not meeting them. I would recommend doing that each and every time you re-sign a lease even if it's just an extension. I would also at a minimum read the airport board agendas and meeting minutes which include new and renewing leases and see what is being currently written. You need to be really well versed in the current events and policies at the airport before you start fighting them. And you need to fully understand what is in your lease and what you have to do to abide by it. You definitely don't want to get called into default that's a bad look for everyone involved.
AOPA, in my experience with these issues, is more or less useless. They might write a letter but that's about it. NATA and NBAA have been more helpful and in my experience have provided really great resources and connections.
I'm not familiar with BJC so I don't know the board and how they're appointed and who they're appointed by. I would recommend doing some research, meeting with board members, meeting with city council members (or county commissioners if it's owned/operated by the county). You have to get on their level and have them understand the value YOU provide as a community to the airport and why it's important you stay.
Unfortunately if the lease says you have to move them, you're not going to talk your way out of it. You may be able to improve things in the future though.
AOPA, in my experience with these issues, is more or less useless. They might write a letter but that's about it. NATA and NBAA have been more helpful and in my experience have provided really great resources and connections.
I'm not familiar with BJC so I don't know the board and how they're appointed and who they're appointed by. I would recommend doing some research, meeting with board members, meeting with city council members (or county commissioners if it's owned/operated by the county). You have to get on their level and have them understand the value YOU provide as a community to the airport and why it's important you stay.
Unfortunately if the lease says you have to move them, you're not going to talk your way out of it. You may be able to improve things in the future though.
Van Johnston
Pattern Altitude
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
For anyone curious, despite 45 minutes of testimony from many pilots and even some residents from around the airport, not a single person was in favor of shutting the runway down. We pointed out its use as the only crosswind runway of practical use in the immediate area and the glaring holes in the runway feasibility study as well as even explicitly call out they’re shutting the runway down to divert funds to future development (which is the reason we will have to move our hangar eventually). However, our county commissioners apparently had their mind made up before the entire proceeding started and voted unanimously to shut down runway 3-21 at KBJC this morning. Sad day in aviation here in Jefferson County in Colorado
It's not surprising. Keeping a runway open costs a lot of money, and the testimony of light airplane pilots often has little influence on what comes down to a financial decision since it is unlikely that all those testimonies will equate to generating enough money to afford to keep it open. We went through a similar exercise at my local airport about 5 years ago and those that complained the loudest about the runway closure used the airport the least and the city council knew it.
Same thing with the hangar relocation. My guess is that the powers that be want to make room for a project that will increase revenue at the airport and the inconvenience to those with ground leases isn't of concern to them.
Things like this are generally all about money.
For anyone who wants to see the runway study it's on this agenda https://www.jeffco.us/DocumentCenter/View/38775/AAB-Agenda_2023-04-05?bidId=
I can't find the agenda for the June meeting, or minutes from March-June. I would assume one would request a copy of the recording though.
Here's the strategic business plan from 2021, I couldn't find a newer master plan than 2000 with a quick search. I'd recommend all users and stakeholders at BJC read and familiarize themselves with this, it will make things less shocking as they come up and you can take a more offensive approach than defensive when things start happening unfavorably.
https://www.jeffco.us/DocumentCenter/View/29470/RMMA-Strategic-Business-Plan---Final-?bidId=
Unfortunately everyone from hangar tenants, to transient aircraft to the FBO operators are at the mercy of a city or county. They see dollar signs either going into the airport or they see the potential to pull dollar signs from the airport to other entities. It sucks, so it's important to have a good, current working knowledge of what's going on in your airport neighborhood.
Daleandee
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Dale Andee
I stated in an earlier post, "Airport managers, whether good or evil, seem to get things to go their way." I don't know why it is but that's the way it is.
With the recent episode at a nearby airport, we had the entire county council voting unanimously to support the mayor's strange new tactics and rule changes. When one of the council members came to our EAA meeting I asked him why, if as reported the mayor was so unliked in the community, that every council member supported his agenda. His answer was, "we're all afraid of him." He couldn't explain why that was.
So undoubtedly the entire process is extremely flawed. Sad to see what's happening there ...
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
I wish things were like the 50s when aviators were getting new airports all the time and everything they wanted. They had no idea how good they had it!
Penguinforce
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We definitely will be staying caught up on what’s going on. Luckily our local association is modernizing and keeping people informed by email now so the masses of us hangar and plane owners can keep ourselves updated on the progress of the airport development or hopefully lack there of
That is not always the case. At most of the smaller airports I’ve been involved with the city management is telling the airport manager what is going to happen.
Silvaire
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What about the FAA? There is a local city owned airport around here that the managers have been trying to shut down but due to decades of FAA funding and agreements they haven't been able to find a viable way of doing it. They do however go out of there way to make the tenants lives somewhat miserable.
MajorTurbulence
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So, what actually happened to your hangar and it’s move?
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
Sorry I forgot to reply. I was busy traveling this last month.
the runway 3-21 was voted to close down and currently the latest I’ve heard is the airport is planning to force the relocation of Port-a-Port hangars to the land where the closed runway would be at an estimated cost of $20,000 per hangar at the owners expense. They’re planning to force the relocation in about 2 years time but we will see how that unfolds. I will try and update this thread when new updates occur. The current plan is to also demolish the county owned hangar, allow a private developer to build new ones and raise the monthly rent from where it is currently at about $300/month to anywhere from $900-$1200/month, essentially pricing many people out from this airport
Agronomist
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Kurt
They just moved a MASSIVE hangar @ KDSM this year or last. All in one piece. These smaller hangars should be able to be braced internally and jacked up. Set it on a flatbed and roll across the airport. Have you tried contacting the manufacture of the building? Probably not the first time this has needed to be done. They may have a recommendation. Since is sounds like there are multiple hangars to move I would try and organize a group and bid the project out as a whole. You should certainly be able to get a better quote this way than individually.
Bacho
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Moving a bunch of portable hangers at $20,000 a pop sounds like a pretty good contract.
ElPaso Pilot
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Agree. Sounds like the airport is including the asphalt in the new location.
I have flown out of BJC for a long time. Took my PPL at the FAA there in 1968. As for 2-20 (3-21) I can only remember using it a half dozen times, so to me not that big a deal.
My county hangar was the cheapest space available. Below real cost. The hangar is maintained just OK. but does not need replacing. Real world pricing dictates a price increase but not up to $1,000. All this is a money grab to get more corporate money.
My county hangar was the cheapest space available. Below real cost. The hangar is maintained just OK. but does not need replacing. Real world pricing dictates a price increase but not up to $1,000. All this is a money grab to get more corporate money.
Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned, is that the Airport sponsor has to show justification for the crosswind runway, which basically shows the State and/or FAA that funding is needed to maintain and improve it. It's not so simple and easy as having pilots rally in support to keep it. I wish it were as easy as something like that.
Concur.
Yeah, I wish more people understood that. Add inflation to that and the alotted funds just don't go as far as they did before. Projects are more expensive than they ever have been and the State and Federal pot is only so large and still has to be spread amongst everyone. If the runway just doesn't have the traffic or the justification the FAA wants, they become disinterested in it quickly.
Traditionally.
Port-a-Ports are not traditional T-hangars.
ElPaso Pilot
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Agree, but this started out as a Port-a-Port thread.Port-a-Ports are not traditional T-hangars.
Meant to reply to the poster you quoted, but then realized his question was asked three months ago and I aborted the mission.
Good morning, Have you ever resolved or acquired any qoutes for port a port relocation? I may have the specific equipment for that task. If your still in need please feel free to contact me, Thank You, Jeff
Scrapped 4 of mine when the airport lost its lease. Just wasn't worth it and had to get them down or after a certain date the landlord would claim possession. 2 of mine had electric service connected. Its not something you just up and move across the field.
pfarber
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If they accept FAA funding then they are beholden to the FAA funding rules. Call the local FSDO and there is an official complaint process.
Mtns2Skies
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There are no federal rules regarding an airport managers appointment. That is a local decision.
Complaint process for what? The FSDO doesn’t control the management of airports, neither does the ADO.
True enough; but as a recipient of federal IAP grant funds, there are numerous provisions as to what the airport sponsor is and is not allowed to *do* with the airport. It's not just a toy with which the sponsor (through whomever is manager) can do as it wishes without limitation.
Now, it works out that way most frequently because, in order to affect what happens, people of determination, conviction and possessing sufficient time to address it must take concerted action. In this connection, while AOPA is unlikely to be the entity taking direct action, they can surely provide useful information.
Corrupt airport sponsors can be brought to task - and beaten - but it takes work and re$ources.
Correct, and that’s largely where I was going next, pending a response from the quoted user above. That said, as an Airport Manager myself, I’m not greatly aware how an airport sponsor can truly be corrupt. It might be perceived as such from the outside, but in a general sense, I’d say it’s entirely false. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but typically it’s just a case of a disgruntled tenant or group of tenants misunderstanding the process or disagreeing with a management decision and forming negative opinions.
The auditing and oversight that occurs when receiving a grant contract, would make it nearly impossible to play the shell game and misappropriate funds. AOPA, the FSDO (which is for flight operations specifically, hence the name) and the ADO, which most folks don’t even know exists, have no hiring, firing or selection ability over the Airport’s management, as was suggested above.
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
There hasn't been too much movement as of late but it's still on the horizon. Likely at least a couple years out but some construction and development gas happened on the south side of the airport in terms of relocating a road to make space for airport expansion. But I will definitely reach out as the continued process works itself out. I don't think anything is finalized yet but it's definitely daily in motion.
A general update on the overall situation.
A couple of spots on the airport advisory board are up for grabs so us hangar owners are definitely hoping to get some representation on the board and an actual advocate for our voice on the panel.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Sorry to be so dumb, but what is a ”port a port hangar?”
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
Essentially a hangar made from sheet metal and steal bars and were originally meant to be Portable
40YearDream
Pre-takeoff checklist
ElPaso Pilot
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ElPaso Pilot
The "Double Wide Trailer Home" of airplane hangers.
Usually segregated into rusty clusters and delegated off to the slums, or some other remote corner of your neighborhood airport.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
I'm in a Port a Port. After 40+ years in central Florida, it is more rust than steel. Pretty sure if I tried to move mine, it would just collapse in a heap. It barely survived a hurricane near miss last year, and I strongly doubt it would live through another.
That said, the concrete T pad is fine. Anyone know if they still sell them, or if used ones are on the market?
That said, the concrete T pad is fine. Anyone know if they still sell them, or if used ones are on the market?
Penguinforce
Pre-takeoff checklist
Update on the situation at KBJC: Our last airport manager suddenly resigned back in November due to "personnel matters". You can read more about it here where the head of our local airport association, Jeffco Aviation Association, was interviewed. We are all very relieved that he left as he definitely did not have GA in mind at all.
We have a meeting on February 26th where the airport director recruitment team is going to gauge our opinions on what we would like to see in an airport manager. I am cautiously optimistic about the future but only time will tell if we get a manager that is finally looking out for us. More to come!
We have a meeting on February 26th where the airport director recruitment team is going to gauge our opinions on what we would like to see in an airport manager. I am cautiously optimistic about the future but only time will tell if we get a manager that is finally looking out for us. More to come!