what happens

bluerooster said:
Thing is this: you can remove and replace everything except the casting, then you can totally refurbish the casting to factory new specs. Put it all together, and set it up as per the MS mx instructions. And say that you IRAN it, not overhauled it.
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What you document in the record isn't the argument, other than if you just write "repaired", that does not meet the requirement.
We are required to use manufacturers maintenance instructions if they exist. Tom argues that we don't have to, based on AD, STC, etc., which is true, but irrelevant to the general carburetor "repair" discussion.
 
GlennAB1 said:
The FAA uses, actually instructs us, in FAA-8083-30, "manufacturers maintenance instructions" not limiting it solely to "maintenance manual".
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Problem being that is not a regulation. proving you don't even know what a proper maintenance routine is.

Or what this statement in FAR 43. really means.
"or other methods, techniques, and practices acceptable to the Administrator,"
 
I once asked Bill O'Brian if what I was taught in A&P school was an approved method of doing the work of an A&P?

his answer as " why do think we wrote FAR 65 the way we did?"

Almost every thing in FAR 43 and 65 that concerns the A&P and records keeping has his finger prints all over it.
 
Tom-D said:
Problem being that is not a regulation. proving you don't even know what a proper maintenance routine is.

Or what this statement in FAR 43. really means.
"or other methods, techniques, and practices acceptable to the Administrator,"
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65.81 (b) A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless he understands the current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned.

And you're saying "current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned" can be disregarded.
 
GlennAB1 said:
65.81 (b) A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless he understands the current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned.

We already knew that, we can read too.

And you're saying "current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned" can be disregarded.
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Your words not mine.
I never said the instructions could be ignored, I disagreed with your contention that the MM was the only method to comply with the performance standards.

OBTW show me the M/M to maintain the Cessna 120, 140, and the early 150.

Remember the 100 M/M didn't come out until 1968.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I never said that.
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Wrong.. that is what started this Pizzing contest.

Then your actuations of me not following the performance standards was about as crude as it gets.
 
GlennAB1 said:
"actuations" is about as funny as it gets.
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OBTW show me the M/M to maintain the Cessna 120, 140, and the early 150.

You never did show us the answer.
Even with a mis-spelled word,
 
I have no trouble comprehending the following:
"Acceptable Data: methods, techniques, and practices used in the absence of current manufacturer’s maintenance instructions or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness"
 
GlennAB1 said:
I have no trouble comprehending the following:
"Acceptable Data: methods, techniques, and practices used in the absence of current manufacturer’s maintenance instructions or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness"
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But that is all you understand, the rest of the statement is what you don't understand.

show me the acceptable maintenance practices for a Cessna 120, 140, 170. or a PA-11, J3..
How do you repair those and give a proper maintenance entry as per 43.9 ??
 
Tom-D said:
Wrong.. that is what started this Pizzing contest.
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My contention has always been: If there are manufacturers maintenance instructions for a given task, we use them and not "acceptable data", and I proved that, whether you want to "except" it or not is up to you. It's what the FAA instructs.
 
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GlennAB1 said:
If you actually read the service manual you'd see there are 18 different wear measurement points inside the carburetor.
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yep, but 17 of them never wear.
 
GlennAB1 said:
The manual requires the whole pump to be replaced at overhaul, but since you don't overhaul...
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exactly. we repair, but I guess you've you lost that concept.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Sure, that's why the manufacturer has those limits. Erosion, Tom, a moving fluid causes erosion.
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you got to be ****ting me.
what is the speed of a gravity system
that's funny stuff.
And they allow you to touch the transport category aircraft?
 
Tom-D said:
All the MA3-'s had accelerator pumps. I've never seen 0-200 that had a tillotson carburetor, with out a pump.
A-65 thru C-90s did . the C-140 came from Cessna with a tillotson carburetor, but most have been upgraded to a MA3-SPA
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Not as I remember. The MA-3A did not have an accel pump. I did check the TCDS for the C-150, the 0-235 series and the carb itself. It would seem that the carb approved for mounting on the Lyc 0-235-L2C and the Cont 0-200 but the only carb I see on the C-150/152 TCDS is the MA3-SPA. I guess that would mean that what I encountered when I didn't know enough to NOT believe everything my supervisor told me was not an approved use. Well....damn. But what I said before is still valid about the reason for the accel pump being there in the first place. So there is that.

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For those interested in what the manufacturer says about their own product. Acceptable data.
If a 150 was brought to me that had a history of several shops not able to make it run correctly, the troubleshooting showed no other issues (no leaks, adjustments set correctly, performance satisfactory, etc) and the carb had not been overhauled in ages, I would be advocating getting it overhauled. Troubleshooting an issue over the internet is pretty hard to do, so this is just my .02.
I do not have all the specialty tooling and the level of experience to do as good a job as I would want for my customer. So I would want to send it to a specialist. As usual, YMMV.

http://wiki.ad7zj.net/wiki/images/8...ce_Manual_Models_MA3A_MA3PA_MA3SPA_MA4SPA.pdf
 
The MA-3A (P/N10-3983) above my desk has no accel pump. I get a kick out of the Manual's picture showing a (FAA calibrated & certified?) ball peen hammer to do various things.........
 
JAWS said:
For those interested in what the manufacturer says about their own product. Acceptable data.
If a 150 was brought to me that had a history of several shops not able to make it run correctly, the troubleshooting showed no other issues (no leaks, adjustments set correctly, performance satisfactory, etc) and the carb had not been overhauled in ages, I would be advocating getting it overhauled. Troubleshooting an issue over the internet is pretty hard to do, so this is just my .02.
I do not have all the specialty tooling and the level of experience to do as good a job as I would want for my customer. So I would want to send it to a specialist. As usual, YMMV.

http://wiki.ad7zj.net/wiki/images/8...ce_Manual_Models_MA3A_MA3PA_MA3SPA_MA4SPA.pdf
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Notice who wrote that manual. (way down on the last page).
they no longer own the production certificate for the carb. Kelly now owns the production certificate, they now no longer produce a overhaul manual. At least none I can find, and they will not sell you one.

OBTW the carb shown has not been produced since the 50s.
 
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nrpetersen said:
The MA-3A (P/N10-3983) above my desk has no accel pump. I get a kick out of the Manual's picture showing a (FAA calibrated & certified?) ball peen hammer to do various things.........
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In the Army we called that "percussive maintenance". You might (or might not) be surprised how many parts are massaged into place with a hammer on helicopters.

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