What good is my AOPA membership?

SkyHog said:
Who is above Phil at AOPA? I cannot find an official hierarchy, but he is listed as the "President" of AOPA, which leads me to believe that he does not report to anyone except the members.

One does not have to talk with someone in person to know about them. Meeting them in person gives them the ability to smooth talk you. I listen more to actions than words.
Click to expand...
AOPA has a Board of Trustees no differently than any other organization, commercial or non-profit, alike. You would have to contact AOPA for a list of the board members.
 
It's true that AOPA sometimes tries to take too much credit for keeping airports open, when often it is the local airport association that does the heavy lifting, but they do give the issue a lot of publicity - in the magazine and otherwise. I must have read at least three articles on the fight to keep Oceanside open, for example. That is good.

And Phil B. really took on FAA and the airlines on User Fees, I mean he got out there in front and didn't pull any punches or try to make nice with Blakey like whassisname from EAA. How disappointing was that! I got the sense that AOPA used up a lot of stored gunpowder on this one, politically speaking - let's hope there's some in reserve because we may need it. If FAA ever gets its way on fees the consequences to AOPA would be very serious IMO, and I'm sure this is well understood. If GA in the U.S. goes the way of western Europe things could get a bit ugly at annual meetings .....

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet: AOPA has been working for some time to end the present Class 3 Medical system for GA, which FAA has itself tacitly admitted to be worthless bureaucracy by allowing SP flight on a drivers license. I know that AOPA is working quietly behind the scenes here and good luck to them. IMO AOPA is way out in front of most of the GA community on this one, but then again that doesn't take much.

I did give my renewal some thought this time around l will admit. I do wish AOPA would ease up on the constant sales job aimed at its own members, it really does get tiresome and besides, why not just let your actions speak for themselves?

But if not AOPA, then what exactly?
 
Well all of you can pontificate all you want about good vs. evil deeds regarding the AOPA...but for this young-ish (38) fairly new pilot and aircraft owner...they will continue to get my money.

As will the EAA even though MUCH of their advocacy does not affect me.

Why?

Simple....who the hell else is going to do it.

Some of you want to see a perfect organization, or one that does everything right all of the time...it ain't gonna happen. Not too mention some seem to think we can dictate to Washington or the bleeting masses on big issues, again it ain't gonna happen.

I think the ADIZ is an abominiation, however no amount of logic, facts, or data will assague the fears of the masses that already have it in their mind that little planes are "evvviiiillllllllll", owned by the hated rich, and are a threat. This is an emotional issue, one that the politicians are going to appease their constituents on.

Be glad it was actually shrunk and not expanded!
 
smoore said:
Forgive the multiple posts, for I know not of the multi-quote. It's function eludes me.

Dispel the myth that misunderstood things are not hated. They very frequently are. I think in this case hated and misunderstood are synonyms.
Click to expand...

Greg Bockelman said:
Cut and paste. :yes:
Click to expand...

Nah. Click on the |"| under each of the posts you wish to quote then press a |Quote| button.
 
mikea said:
Nah. Click on the |"| under each of the posts you wish to quote then press a |Quote| button.
Click to expand...
He means this button:
multiquote_off.gif
 
mikea said:
Nah. Click on the |"| under each of the posts you wish to quote then press a |Quote| button.
Click to expand...

Greebo said:
He means this button:
multiquote_off.gif
Click to expand...

mikea said:
Yeah that. Then this button
quote.gif




Deres always some guy who makes ya do more research work. Sheesh.
Click to expand...
:D

And don't hit the first button on the same post you hit the second button - you don't need to cause the 2nd button will make the reply have its text anyway.
 
Geez. Whole lot of ****ing and moaning on this thread. Sounds a lot like the purple boarders.
 
Nick, every organization needs a figurehead. Phil Boyer is the "face" of general aviation. In a sense, the buck stops there.

Send him an email with your concerns. I guarantee you'll get a response within 48hrs, from the man himself.

He's a talking head, because that's what we pay him to do. As such, I believe he is highly visible. DOes AOPA take credit for keeping airports open. Yeah, but they provide a ton of assistance to locals involved in the effort. Do they take credit for the battle vs the airlines, Yeah, but only the NBAA is helping, so I think it's fair to give credit where credit is due.

Can we fly whereever we want, whenever we want, and FAA take the hindmost? No. That's an unreasonable expectation. Consider where GA would be without the ONLY advocacy group working on our behalf (EAA is focused on homebuilders, a subset of GA) inside the Beltway. You're somewhat removed from that nonsense out west, but let me tell you, without someone pounding the tables inside the Beltway, you might as well fold up your tent and fly RC models.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Send him an email with your concerns. I guarantee you'll get a response within 48hrs, from the man himself.
Click to expand...

I did, and he didn't respond, and it was a very important email, IMHO, as it was the final culmination of what had caused me to cancel my membership.
 
Capt Binkley said:
Geez. Whole lot of ****ing and moaning on this thread. Sounds a lot like the purple boarders.
Click to expand...
Hey now, lets treat the purple board with the same respect we treat other aviation related sites, k?

Thanks.
 
Greebo said:
Hey now, lets treat the purple board with the same respect we treat other aviation related sites, k?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but there was a whole lot of P&M going on around the Red Board leading up to the start of the Purple Board. It was getting quite tiring.
 
Skydog,

If responding to a personal email or phone message were a criterion for supporting a lobbying group, I doubt many of them would have more than a handfull of members.

As to the history of Phil B.'s aggressiveness in taking on GA causes, I would have to state the opposite (but I've only got about 5 years in AOPA): in the whole User Fee debate, far and away the #1 threat to the future of GA in the U.S. IMO, he has shown me that he can and will go to the mat when necessary. It's hard to see what else he and AOPA could have done. Prior to this debate I was much more skeptical about him, since I agree with some of your criticisms. But he's a career politico, what do you expect? :rolleyes: AOPA staff (not just Phil, of course) have really done their research on fees, including getting data from experience in Europe and running the numbers on real world scenarios, and Phil has been banging away on it pretty much all year to whoever might listen. I sense that AOPA has been picking their battles over the years, you can't fight everything with the same intensity in Washington or you won't have any credibility with the pols.

How effective is he and AOPA in Congress? A good question and it's hard to tell, but I'm sure there's a lot more going on than meets the eye. That's the nature of lobbying of course. Taking too much credit for staving off airport closures ? - I agree with you there. I hope he reads threads like this, and I'll tell him when I get the chance - at a local AOPA meeting. He usually stands at the back by the door after delivering his spiel.
 
Last edited:
Capt Binkley said:
Geez. Whole lot of ****ing and moaning on this thread. Sounds a lot like the purple boarders.
Click to expand...
LOL.

You want to hear some REAL p***ing and moaning, spend some time on british aviation forums like I've been doing lately. Those guys have a lot more to complain about than us, but it's a great view into how things might turn out over here, worst case scenario. Some of those landing fees are just outrageous (much more than those in France, apparently), including landing at grass fields under VFR and just getting the QFE from some idle sod on Unicom.
 
Last edited:
Chas said:
and just getting the QFE from some idle sod in Unicom.
Click to expand...

In case anyone was wondering, QFE is the altimeter setting:

QFE barometric altimeter setting which will cause an altimeter to read zero when at the reference datum of a particular airfield (generally a runway threshold). In ISA temperature conditions the altimeter will read height above the datum in the vicinity of the airfield.
Click to expand...
 
nick, why would he respond? he probably realizes that there is nothing he can say to change your mind, so whats the point?

when i had some hair brained idea for promoting GA by taking out ads on the walls at airports where people would be lined up waiting for TSA, phil replied to me in less than 6 hrs.
 
tonycondon said:
when i had some hair brained idea for promoting GA by taking out ads on the walls at airports where people would be lined up waiting for TSA, phil replied to me in less than 6 hrs.
Click to expand...
Great idea!
 
tonycondon said:
when i had some hair brained idea for promoting GA by taking out ads on the walls at airports where people would be lined up waiting for TSA, phil replied to me in less than 6 hrs.
Click to expand...
Was it a restraining order? ;) ;)


serioulsy that is a good idea. I don't think I have ever seen such and ad , what was his reply?
 
tonycondon said:
nick, why would he respond? he probably realizes that there is nothing he can say to change your mind, so whats the point?

when i had some hair brained idea for promoting GA by taking out ads on the walls at airports where people would be lined up waiting for TSA, phil replied to me in less than 6 hrs.
Click to expand...

When I emailed asking him about the sweeps and why not push towards introducing more people to GA rather than giving away an aircraft that a number of people who get it are going to have to sell it, he also replied to me within a day.

Luck of the draw maybe?
 
wbarnhill said:
When I emailed asking him about the sweeps and why not push towards introducing more people to GA rather than giving away an aircraft that a number of people who get it are going to have to sell it, he also replied to me within a day.

Luck of the draw maybe?
Click to expand...
I'm still curious of his reply to Tony and now yours. Is it a secret?
 
smigaldi said:
Was it a restraining order? ;) ;)


serioulsy that is a good idea. I don't think I have ever seen such and ad , what was his reply?
Click to expand...

My email:

Me said:
Phil,

I see after the latest round of terrorism arrests, Alert levels are
through the roof and the TSA is overreacting as normal. Seems to me
that in the not so distant future carry on baggage will be something we
tell our grandkids about and they laugh. This is going to alienate the
business travelers that the airlines havent already pushed away. I
think our organization needs to take advantage of this, rather than
sitting by the sidelines and watching. My suggestion is large banner
ads hanging on the walls near security checkpoints lauding the virtues
(and time savings) of earning the private pilots license and traveling
with no security, on your own time. With TSA now recommending 2 hours
early arrival for airline flights, it will help our cause in 2 ways:

1) Travelers will have plenty of time to look at these ads and write
down websites or phone numbers to get info on how to become a pilot
2) Now even a 172 will often beat the airlines, thanks to long waits
and hub and spoke nonsense.

Seems to me this would help solve our problems of new pilot starts and
generally declining pilot numbers across the board. Maybe a couple more
airlines will fold and then not so many will be clamoring for users
fees.

Just one mans feelings, thanks for listening.

Feel free to stay in contact to discuss this issue. I check my email
frequently and will get back to you as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

His Reply:

Phil said:
The tactic you propose ... Ads at the checkpoints may not be feasible,
but the overall strategy is a direction we and NBAA have been taking
(even had discussion this morning thinking just like you).

Yet, we must be careful how many we drive from the airliens or we feed
the airline rhetoric that says GA should pay more - they are capturing
our best customers. I wouldn't want to be in a Congressional hearing
with the airlines pleading those lines and holding up ads, etc. It
would not help our cause to fight against user fees.

Also, to publicize our lack of security lines, etc. can come around to
bite us in the back.

No easy answer to the tactics, but in the end we are in total sync on
strategy.

--Phil
Click to expand...
 
Nick,

Didja ever consider that maybe he didn't even get your message? Email is often unreliable, a lot more so than you'd think.
 
From Feb. 2006 (Mine was sent Feb. 14, 2006 at 11:47PM, Response received on Feb. 15, 2006 at 8:30AM):

Mr. Boyer,

After looking through previous years of sweepstakes, an almost sad trend seems to occur, as most winners sell the sweepstakes aircraft soon after receiving it. If the hope of AOPA is to entice pilots to join the organization or renew membership with the sweepstakes, perhaps it would be better for AOPA to spend the sweepstakes budget on multiple aircraft with fewer upgrades rather than spending it all on an aircraft whose value will cause tax headaches for a multitude of potential winners. Not only would this help winners to keep their prized possessions (pun intended), but I believe it would also bring in more members to AOPA due to the increased odds of winning. I do hope that you take this into consideration, and always remember that so many pilots just want to get in the air, whether it be in a fully loaded Commander 112 or simply in a working and freshly annualled Cessna 150. I believe that this approach would enable so many more pilots to enter the world of ownership. Thanks for your time.

--
William Barnhill

PS- Another idea is possibly assisting in paying for training. Always nice to get a few extra bucks to assist in paying those hourly bills! Thanks again!
Click to expand...
And his response:

William ...
Thanks for writing ... the SWEEPS airplane is not just a membership promotion, but also provides (unlike most other aviation organizations and businesses) a chance to write-up what many of our members do each year (never to this extent all at once - but some portion) and that is FIX up an older airplane. The PILOT magazine stories provide valuable insights into PAINT, AVIONICS UPGRADES, INTERIOR, ENGINE, MODS, etc.​

In doing these things, that make us very different we do end up with a high $$$ airplane. ​

In the end, however, we're not disappointed that winners sell the plane - that's a fact of their personal finances, etc. In each of those stories that were in the DEC magazine, they were all very much winners. Some had airplanes they were comfortable with, others needed the $$$$ to finance college for their kids, others used it to pursue an aviation fast track career ... so they won, without necessarily keeping the plane ... for what the current SWEEPS COMMANDER is worth anyone could sell it, pay the taxes and then choose whatever as you state "more affordable" airplane to own from the proceeds.​

That's our thinking, at least and a little more of the strategy of owner education versus just a prize ...​

In terms of training - YES - in most cases this comes with the prize. The TWIN COMANCHE winner got specialized training, his twin rating, etc. all paid - but once again - that's taxable.​

Hoep this shed some light on the AOPA Sweeps.​

--Phil​
Click to expand...
 
Interesting point Phil makes about the potentially strengthened airline argument to FAA in favor of user fees, in the unlikely event GA actually does manage to take away a significant chunk of their high-value customers. We don't want GA to get hoist by its own petard .... That's partly what the guy gets paid for, to factor in possible consequences like this.
 
NRA, EAA and AOPA are the three advocacy organizations I joined because they represent something I stand for in Federal, state and local governments, not because of the benefits they provide me directly. Indeed, my little donation is a drop in a sea of funding and no one would notice if I stopped membership dues. Guess I am just the type who does not like to get something for nothing - they support my interests, I support their membership drives. While not the only factor, bet you that without EAA and AOPA's efforts we would be much closer to having user fees on all aircraft operations now.


Alex Beylin
N30876@KPTK
 
Like some others here, I think AOPA is extremely valuable.

We all want to keep flying, we'll all have some common needs as they relate to aviation. Yes, AOPA isn't always perfect, but for a large organization, it's amazing that their president personally replies to emails. How many organizations like that do you know?

Overall, I think AOPA has done an amazing job balancing the views of the public, of politicians, and of all the other interest groups. I give them as much money as possible. Without them, quite frankly, GA wouldn't exist today.

Here's a challenge - give them $1 for every hour you fly. I'm sure everyone here can afford that, and it would go a long way toward making sure we can continue flying.

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
...for a large organization, it's amazing that their president personally replies to emails. How many organizations like that do you know?

....
Click to expand...

That's what I think - I was pleasantly surprised to see that. And outright shocked to hear that the reply was within a matter of hours, not days or weeks.

Heck, those replies even had some typos in them. Which tells me that: 1) they weren't "form" responses; and 2) Phil Boyer wrote them himself. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. That really impresses me.

It's also nice to see that there is a lobbying group, regardless of its interests, that has some class. Good for AOPA for not stooping to the level of mudslinging. The ends only justify the means in one arena - war. Politics is about the farthest thing from.
 
Chas said:
Interesting point Phil makes about the potentially strengthened airline argument to FAA in favor of user fees, in the unlikely event GA actually does manage to take away a significant chunk of their high-value customers. We don't want GA to get hoist by its own petard .... That's partly what the guy gets paid for, to factor in possible consequences like this.
Click to expand...

I was rereading some old sci-fi the other day, and in "Lifeline" by Robert A. Heinlein, there's a scene where life insurance companies are suing for an injunction to stop Dr. Pinero from using his invention which can tell a person the date and time they are going to die (which of course takes the bet out of life insurance, and is ruining the companies).

The judge says (to the insurance companies):
"...There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back".

In my mind, the airlines have done a terrific job of convicing Congress that the health of the nation depends on their profitability and continued operation. This is the argument they will use as more travellers flee to private and charter operations as a way around the hassles and poor service of airline transportation.

I will grant that we'd suffer grevious harm if ALL airlines stopped operating, but I believe that letting operators that can't operate in the black go bankrupt, and forcing them to cease operations, would in the long run do more good than harm.

Now, I'll also grant that the airlines have a point in complaining that they are subject to security restrictions that smaller operators are not, and this may affect their ability to compete. But the counter argument can be that smaller operators have less risk per flight (fewer passengers to die, and smaller airplanes to crash into targets), and thus require fewer restrictions. Personally, I'd just as soon go back to the older style of airport security, but increase air marshals and keep the flight deck locked and the crew armed.
 
TMetzinger said:
I was rereading some old sci-fi the other day, and in "Lifeline" by Robert A. Heinlein, there's a scene where life insurance companies are suing for an injunction to stop Dr. Pinero from using his invention which can tell a person the date and time they are going to die (which of course takes the bet out of life insurance, and is ruining the companies).

The judge says (to the insurance companies):
"...There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back".
...
Click to expand...

Man is THAT prophetic. It's not just airlines, I shining example of such is teh recording industry.

If we had the current guvmint and courts when the horse carriage trade was flourishing we'd be living like they do on Mackinaw Island, where cars and trucks are banned.
 
The airlines broght a huge part of the added security on themselves. They were all in favor of creating the TSA as it got them out of the business and the expense. It has come back to haunt them.
 
Face it...

Our dedication to AOPA and EAA are our best defense against those who would love to remove our privileges.

QAWXXSDUVAWGLWASFVCR.jpg
 
I let my AOPA membership lapse last year -- renewed it a few months ago.

I missed the red board. I miss my fellow pilots over there and their constant bickering, one-upmanship, and need to waggle their junk at one another. I get to watch them abuse Doc Bruce and watch him pout and move to a different board in a huff. Hilarious.

I've paid way more for way less entertainment. The rest of it doesn't interest me.

I haven't even received any of my magazines... dunno where they wound up. Someone must be enjoying them :D
 
just saw that on a reposted blog post from Van on facebook. Got a chuckle out of it.
 
wbarnhill said:
The time came again that I was asked for that yearly donation of AOPA dues, and unfortunately I was paying off a debt and couldn't get to it, so right now my AOPA membership is void. Now that I do have some cash flow again, I've begun to think:

What purpose does the AOPA membership have for me?

I don't get to attend the big fly-ins because I just don't have that much money to fly. Turbomedical is nice, but since filling out the form pretty much consists of "No Change" for me now, I don't see the point in that. I don't currently take advantage of renter's insurance, owner's insurance, legal plan, etc etc (see the point about limited cash flow).

About the only thing that I've seen worthwhile is the attempt to hold off user fees. So should that be the only reason I renew my membership?

Perhaps I'm just missing something.
Click to expand...
The card makes a handy frost scraper.
 
sba55 said:
Here's a challenge - give them $1 for every hour you fly.
Click to expand...
That's going to go a long way towards paying for their cigar club.

Frankly NRA is much less corrupt than AOPA despite sitting on a far larger budget. It has something to do with specific leadership.

BTW, got my EAA card two days ago.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top