What do you learn on X-Country?

Shawn said:
You learn why a Gatorade bottle is better than a water bottle and its direct correlation to turbulence.

You don't learn that in the pattern.
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Truer words were never spoken!
 
I learned how it feels to be lost and 100 miles from home...when I was 16. Pilots can still learn this if they leave the GPS home. Navigation used to be the paramount lesson in cross country flying. With a smart phone and a free app you can take some long cross country flights and never be lost. I flew a champ without a radio or Garmin on a 1000 mile cross country a few years ago. I just used a free phone app, sectionals and brains to make the trip. I learned that I can do it. Now that is worth something to me.
 
JCranford said:
Might be *your* point. Its not mine, otherwise I'd fly commercial
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You are right, it is my main driver for having my own plane and license.
I can take trips with my wife and dog faster than I can do commercial (and my dog is not getting killed along the way).

For me to get to a commercial airport is 1hour drive, plus TSA, plus waiting.... they are hard pressed to make this up in the air.
Besides it is cheaper in my own plane
 
SkyDog58 said:
Airport Dining Management.
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Truth.

I learned on my coast to coast trip how to land a random Podunk airport, availability of courtesy car (and I use that term "car" loosely") and who to ask for the best local eats joint in town. That was half the fun of the trip.

I love their video series but John King never taught me that in training.

I also learned how little hills up ahead suddenly become big hills taking off from a 5000' elevation at 95 degrees at max gross..."oh, THAT is density altitude". You can book learn it all you want...things are a different ballgame once you actually EXPERIENCE them!
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
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What's your plan when all the GPS devices in your aircraft fail at the same time?

Happened to me once on a XC from Tucson to Colorado Springs (happened to everyone else in the area too; all the airliners were also asking if someone reported a GPS outage). No GPS service at all basically between Deming and Albuquerque, because of something DoD was doing. In this case no big deal, because it's a super easy route to fly with basic pilotage anyway, and there's a convenient string of VORs to follow if you want/need. If you're trusting the AP to follow your 430 in the situation though, it's as likely to put you into a restricted area as not.
 
Shawn said:
You learn why a Gatorade bottle is better than a water bottle and its direct correlation to turbulence.

You don't learn that in the pattern.
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My primary instructor shared that wisdom plus "any flavor other than lemon-lime. And don't ask how I figured that out."
 
Another one I learned last year was that not all little airports have things you might assume they would have. I stopped for the night in Santa Rosa because I was getting tired and didn't want to push the rest of the way. I learned that the runway there has 1-2 foot tufts of grass growing out of the centerline, and the taxiway signs and reflectors are completely buried in grass. Also, Santa Rosa has no Uber (no surprise), no Lyft (no surprise), and no taxi service of any kind (!!). How to get from the airport to a hotel was not a problem I anticipated. :)
 
deyoung said:
What's your plan when all the GPS devices in your aircraft fail at the same time?
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The "C's" of getting unlost have been upgraded to 6 versus just 5 as the older books used.

Confess
Climb
Circle
Communicate
Comply

And the new one, Cash.... you need to purchase additional GPS devices.
 
Some things not mentioned:

How to put gas on a plane. A lot of students renting never have to do this. On a X/C if you want to top off you might find yourself at the self serve. Perplexed. And if its a high wing...searching for a ladder.

To bring change because the candy bar you want is right behind that f'ing glass. Its probably 9yrs old. But the machine doesn't take bills or a credit card or Apple Pay - LOL.
 
wayne said:
Yep, dealing with "stuff". Weather is a biggie. The farther you go the more likely it is to not match the forecast. This can be a huge problem for VFR flight and a concern for IFR flight as well.

Then there is breakage; alternator, battery, flat tire, whatever. Stopping for fuel and finding they are out of fuel, or the pump broke, or the credit card reader died, whatever, but you're not getting fuel there today.

Or you get nearby your destination and find that someone had a gear collapse on the runway. How are you fuel reserves? This happened to me several weeks ago, but the airport has three runways, so not a big deal; plus I had plenty of fuel. But, if it had one runway then do you hold somewhere or land, and how far is the nearest airport to land and wait for clean-up?



Works fine when flying VFR. Not so much for flying in IMC. You could dial-up some VOR's and validate your location. But if you lost your 430 you most likely are missing at least one of your Nav radios too, unless you just lost GPS and not the 430/power.
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yes. I was talking VFR. if IFR, have a jepp book, or if it's really just the third backup, you can keep a VFR sectional plus the government IFR plates (pretty cheap)
 
Sinistar said:
Some things not mentioned:

How to put gas on a plane. A lot of students renting never have to do this. On a X/C if you want to top off you might find yourself at the self serve. Perplexed. And if its a high wing...searching for a ladder.
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I am lucky, on a night flight my CFI and I had to fill up the plane on self serve, that is how I learned before my student XC, and being 6'6" I can easily get on top as long as there is a strut.
 
deyoung said:
What's your plan when all the GPS devices in your aircraft fail at the same time?

Happened to me once on a XC from Tucson to Colorado Springs (happened to everyone else in the area too; all the airliners were also asking if someone reported a GPS outage). No GPS service at all basically between Deming and Albuquerque, because of something DoD was doing. In this case no big deal, because it's a super easy route to fly with basic pilotage anyway, and there's a convenient string of VORs to follow if you want/need. If you're trusting the AP to follow your 430 in the situation though, it's as likely to put you into a restricted area as not.
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... here I am others making fun of me for planning my xc's from VOR to VOR and using the DME in addition to 2 GPS's...
 
JCranford said:
Yeah, see when I learned to fly I wanted to be a bit more than a button pusher. Push the buttons on the 430, push the buttons on the AP, nap till I get there. Theres a bit more to flying than that. Maybe hand fly an entire X/C. You might learn something

Edit: I see Tawood beat me to it
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See what happens when they train in a Cirrus. :rolleyes:
 
TimRF79 said:
Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
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Only if you are flying a Boeing.
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... starting to makes sense.
I enjoy hanging under a parachute and enjoy the quite-ness fresh air and view.
Aerobatics, is something that sounds appealing, but financially prohibitive.
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powered parachute or regular? i think it'd be a hoot to learn powered parachute, in addition to airplane ratings
 
TimRF79 said:
Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
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If you want to get from point A to point B, you do not learn to fly, but buy a ticket at United.
 
deyoung said:
What's your plan when all the GPS devices in your aircraft fail at the same time?
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CFI: And then what are going to do?
CHUCK: I dunno... Scream like a little girl, maybe?
CFI: I guess, I'll do too! But seriously¸ what is the procedure?
CHUCK: There is a procedure?!

Last time my GPS conked up, and VOR was INOP (in a rental), I almost landed at a military airbase. Thought that getting arrested was better than trying to land in a gully. Eventually I found a highway and even landed with 7 gallons remaining. At least back then we had paper maps that didn't need any batteries.
 
I learned that "Maine" is a real place! Who knew? :)

I learned that there is a good reason they don't pipe cockpit conversation to passengers, like they used to do with ATC on Channel 9. Think of the panic, if passengers could hear the two people up front saying things like "I'm pretty sure that's Biddeford." "No, that's Portland." "No, that airport only has one runway, and Portland is supposed to have two. Besides, it's a small city." "That city is plenty big. And it's by the coast." "It's Maine; they're *all* by the coast!" etc etc.

Later, I learned that there's a serene peace when you're alone with nothing but your own thoughts, an amazing view, and the adventure of a new place ahead.
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
From there on out it is monitoring of the plane.
Engine performance matches the POH.
ATC doesn't talk much to me other than to change frequencies and confirm altitude.

What is ADM?
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ADM is what you use with flight planning and SI so you don’t run out of gas.
 
TimRF79 said:
Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
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Surely for many it is. But they likely aren't spending their free time hanging out here.

TimRF79 said:
Good point, if my AP goes out, I would hand-fly the course.
If the 430 goes out, I would go with the tablet, if that also quits, the phone... Now if all 3 quit... then I probably be in trouble as I may not have a paper sectional.
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Hopefully having a map does not affect your ability to fly the plane. Maybe that's something you learn on a cross country flight.
 
How easy it is to "get lost" without a GPS, how unreliable the airplane/engine is, especially at night and/or over water, how radically different fuel prices are from airport to airport, and how few places have fuel when you need it most, how you should pee before you got in the plane, even if it's only 15 minutes between airports, and (left and right coast specific) how few places there are to set down in an emergency.
Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going out in the Cub this morning and see how many of the above I can experience.
 
Shepherd said:
Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going out in the Cub this morning and see how many of the above I can experience.
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I see you are located just above West Point. Take a cross country down my way and we can fly the Waco. 50PA
 
Cross countries are a great way to build your confidence.. 50nm from home is one thing, you could still Uber back or get a ride home if things go south.. but once you are 300nm (or more) from home now you really are depending on your machine and your skills to navigate. Proper cross countries (>200nm) bring me closer to both the plane, and myself

I sometimes am reminded of the saying in long distance and extended passage sailing. It is boring until it gets scary. It's tongue in cheek, but if you fly enough you'll eventually find yourself in a situation that is more than just humming along at 4K following the track on the 430
*what do you do when you are VFR only and the cloud layer that was supposed to be few at 3K at your destination doesn't burn off and turns into scattered, broken, then overcast?
*what's going to happen when you are IFR in a non FIKI plane and you start picking up ice that wasn't forecast?
*what will you do when the engine skips a beat every couple seconds... just a little water in the tank? Picking up carb ice? Mag going?
*what will you do when you have an electrical failure (which are more common than you think.. had mine at less 250 hrs, most pilots I know have had some time of elec failure)
--what will you do when you lose your navigation.. go to iPad?
--what about your comms. If you're VFR that's one thing, what about if you're IFR? Do you know your lost comms procedures? Can you quickly find where you are on your iPad and get the MEA, etc.?
--what if you forgot to charge your iPad and you're trying to do all this on a 4inch phone screen?

Sound planning and good ADM will mitigate many of the above, but eventually that cross country is going to turn into a little more than you were anticipating and that's what builds that confidence and experience, that you won't get bouncing around your pattern or local area..

kath said:
Later, I learned that there's a serene peace when you're alone with nothing but your own thoughts, an amazing view, and the adventure of a new place ahead.
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That's one of the most peaceful and meditative things for me, is solo flying. Really nothing quite like it. It never gets old
 
JCranford said:
Yeah, see when I learned to fly I wanted to be a bit more than a button pusher. Push the buttons on the 430, push the buttons on the AP, nap till I get there. Theres a bit more to flying than that. Maybe hand fly an entire X/C. You might learn something

Edit: I see Tawood beat me to it
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If you are looking for auto-takeoff and auto-landing, with a nap during cruise, I would suggest taking an airline, or greyhound. It is a lot cheaper, and more comfortable too.
 
A8A3F79C-DA56-4B0F-8A5C-111595BA24CF.jpeg And you see neat stuff. In grade school I learned about the pioneers crossing the Mississippi. Now it is my turn. I am on my own carving my way west in an open plane. I look at the tach needle at 1800, the altitude about 1800’ agl and enjoy the trip. Well planned cross county flying is a blessing. Do it.
 

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BTW: I had a very pleasant time in the Cub today.
I flew from GBR to NY1 shot some landings, then flew back. Burned up a little over an hours worth of fuel and enjoyed the scenery and the warm weather.
 
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