What do folks pay for ....

[steingar]

I think the all around maint costs were on the lucky level of the low side. $3k for 10 years of avionics use? Annual and all repairs and maint at $1800year?
Not saying it's not possible, but you need some really good karma. Both of those can easily triple in one event. Hell, tires ain't even cheap and it's going to be a primary trainer on some damned hot asphalt. You going to charge students for tires directly?

I never spent more than about $500/year on maintenance for mine. There were not avionics to speak of, so no expense there, though I did have to replace the AI one year. Don't know why I bothered, didn't really need the thing. There isn't that much to break, really. My main concern was the insurance. That was the deal breaker for me.

 

[Henning]

Hell, tires ain't even cheap and it's going to be a primary trainer on some damned hot asphalt. You going to charge students for tires directly?

~~~~~~~ Well, now Henning that's a good question. Remember that thread that went on and on about that student being charged for ruining a tire on his first solo? Have to give that some thought

(NA) So, how's the Indian Ocean at this time of year?[/QUOTE]

Well, since I'm about 5* South, it's pretty much the same as it is all the rest of the year.:wink2:

 

[Henning]

I never spent more than about $500/year on maintenance for mine. There were not avionics to speak of, so no expense there, though I did have to replace the AI one year. Don't know why I bothered, didn't really need the thing. There isn't that much to break, really. My main concern was the insurance. That was the deal breaker for me.

Yeah, now they expect to have radios in planes.... Can you manage a 150 on $500year maint? Yeah. Should it be budgeted so in a business plan, I don't think it's a good idea, especially not something that's going to be used as a primary trainer.

 

[steingar]

Yeah, now they expect to have radios in planes.... Can you manage a 150 on $500year maint? Yeah. Should it be budgeted so in a business plan, I don't think it's a good idea, especially not something that's going to be used as a primary trainer.

Business plan on an aircraft is a pretty sketchy thing. Any airplane can need expensive maintenance at any time, especially 30 year old ones. But in terms of inspection, there isn't that much to inspect. In terms of repair, there aren't that many parts and lots of used ones out there. If you're going to own an airplane on the cheap you can't do much better than a 150.

 

[jesse]

Business plan on an aircraft is a pretty sketchy thing. Any airplane can need expensive maintenance at any time, especially 30 year old ones. But in terms of inspection, there isn't that much to inspect. In terms of repair, there aren't that many parts and lots of used ones out there. If you're going to own an airplane on the cheap you can't do much better than a 150.

Low powered experimentals

 

[steingar]

Low powered experimentals

Can't rent them out for hire.

 

[gprellwitz]

Here in the SW Chicago area IFR certified 152s go for $95 - $98 wet tach, from a couple of local FBOs. I also see $55/hr dry for another 152, but don't know if it's IFR.

 

[RickH]

The local flight training business gets $100/hr for theirs, but I don't think they rent it to anyone except their students.

 

[Dan Thomas]

http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-14_ad.asp

Not quite. The one crash had the rudder stop installed upside down. The other crash suggested that the rudder was slammed to the side during the ground impact and not during flight. The AD is pretty ridiculous. The design worked fine for like 60 years. Suddenly someone installs it correctly and crashes and the entire fleet needs to be changed.

We had a Canadian AD on that same issue that came out more than 10 years ago. A 150 had a rudder lockover due to the stop's little lip going past the edge of the stop screw and it spun in. A major contributing factor was badly worn rudder hinges. The new stops are longer and have no lip.

Many operators add up their maintenance and fuel and insurance and overhead costs and come up with a rental rate from that, but maintenance typically suffers if they try to keep it too competitive and eventually it catches up with them. A significant amount needs to be set aside for more obscure stuff like control cables and pulleys, propellers, hoses, hinges and a whole bunch of similar items that last a while but not forever. There are some guys that go broke when all these things eventually need fixing and they can't afford it. The low rate you might find can often be explained by a quick inspection of the airplane.

Dan

 

[Satchmo10th]

For comparison:

Robinson R22
Rental $220 per hour
Dual Instruction/Rides $260 per hour
Photo flights $275 per hour

IFR R22
Dual instruction $275 per hour

Bell 206
Dual Instruction $855 per hour
Photo Flights $855 per hour

 

[Ddayle]

I learned at Boeing Field In Seattle At http://www.alternateair.com/prices/index.html not shown on the website are a 150 & 172 totaling six good safe planes, if a bit 'cosmetically challenged'. I have since joined an owner member club at nearby Auburn also but still belong to Alt Air. $69 wet for a 150 my other club http://www.valleyfliers.com/index.html with a much higher buyin $ higher dues I get a 172 for roughly the same hourly and a PA28-180 for just under $80. the 182 is a@ $90 Dave

 

[zaitcev]

One funny thing is how prices vary contrary to all expectation. You'd think they would be higher in expensive coastal states. And yet my old home base at KTCY (just outside the California's Bay Area) rents a 152 for $59/hr, but my new local FBO at KAEG rents a 150 for $125/hr (IIRC - they removed their prices from the website, presumably to lessen the sticker shock). Their nearest competitor at KABQ charges the same $125/hr for a Cherokee. New Mexico is fully 2 times more expensive than California now? Wow, guys.
-- Pete

 

[TangoWhiskey]

One funny thing is how prices vary contrary to all expectation. You'd think they would be higher in expensive coastal states. And yet my old home base at KTCY (just outside the California's Bay Area) rents a 152 for $59/hr, but my new local FBO at KAEG rents a 150 for $125/hr (IIRC - they removed their prices from the website, presumably to lessen the sticker shock). Their nearest competitor at KABQ charges the same $125/hr for a Cherokee. New Mexico is fully 2 times more expensive than California now? Wow, guys.
-- Pete

Taking advantage of the foreign student's loans? Market dynamics. They all want to train the high desert.

 

[Air_Ogre]

A local club is offering a 150 for $60 or $50 if you buy hours in blocks of 20. They do charge a monthly membership fee in the club which might cover the maintenance but it's only $20/ month and it seems to me than as long as you put in at least 2 hours per month even the $60 rate is a deal. More interesting is the $65/ hour rate for the 172 and the Beach A23A...

Makes me wonder if they have a lot of low airtime members helping to cover maintenance.

 

[Areeda]

I've been on the board of our flying club for 5 or 6 years and owned a couple of airplanes. Just a couple of comments:

We use dues to (mostly) cover fixed expenses like insurance and tie downs.

Hourly rate calculations depend most heavily on usage and reserves.

Fuel and oil is pretty easy to estimate in gals and qts, the tricky part lately is to translate that into dollars. Once a plane has been through an engine or two reserves can be calculated fairly accurately. Reserves are for things like engine/prop overhaul, 50/100 hr inspections, normal wear and tear like tires, brakes, landing lights... These things are pretty much per hour, in other words if it doesn't fly it free, although that doesn't hold up if usage is too low.

The trick comes in allotting fixed expenses to each hour flown. This includes taxes, insurance, tie down, annual, database updates, unplanned maintenance (things break, upholstery wears out, paint peels, people make mistakes). Dues go a long way to reducing the uncertainty here but the biggest factor is the usage in hours per year that you put in the denominator.

I think when you see a low rental rate in an expensive city and vice versa it's more about how much the plane is flown, than the cost of fuel, taxes and tie downs. Our 152 flew a bit over 400 hrs in the last 12 months, that helps a lot to keep the per hour cost down.