What do folks pay for ....

so if it's a nice not POS 1981 then 80 would seem reasonable?
 
It better be a *NICE* 150 for $80/hr (or the ONLY option available).
 
iDunno - so then 70 would seem more appropriate?
 
It depends on the market.

In some areas, you could rent it for $100/hr. In some areas, you could only get $60/hr. I did my initial training in a 152 10 years ago for $35/hr (club plane). After that, I could rent a newer/nicer 152 from a local FBO for $55/hr.

So, based on how prices have increased since then, $70-80/hr might actually be the current market value for a 152.

It just depends on the local market.
 
Well, my plane will be the only one that's available on our field as best I can tell. The "club" plane that was used for instruction is an old POS 172 and has been sold. The other OLD 172 is such that it can't be rented and I don't think the owner will be teaching in it much longer if at all. So..... I guess 70-80 it is. I have to ponder on it some more to see what's really right to do. I don't want to make it so that people can't afford to learn to fly afterall. But then, I don't want to be in the red on maintenance etc either.
 
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70-80 seems to be the most common, but then again, it ultimately depends on the market - I have seen 152s for rent well over 100 an hour in some places. I've seen 172 go for 150!
 
I think it varies. I pay $62/hr wet plus a $4/hr fuel surcharge, so $66/hr total for 3 available not too shabby 152's. Another field close by has them going for ~$85/hr wet. I haven't seen them, so I don't know if they are super nice or if the FBO is just really proud of them. I guess charge what you think is enough and see how the numbers work out after a few months. If your airplane is the only game in town, you pretty much control the market.
 
Jeanie there is a guy in my profession who dissects the cost of each service offered, from the tiniest thing consumed to the labor invested, calculated to the minute.....in order that we can properly assign a fair retail price to everything we offer.
You could probably do the same to the 152 without a lot of work.
I have a spreadsheet for airplane costs (I try not to study it too much). With very little research, you could input your costs, add a reasonable value for expected and due profit from such a venture, and come up with a retail per hour on your rental.
Let me know if you want to see it, or want me to help you put it together. It would be better to get a good guideline in advance than find out later you are subsidizing other people's flying!
 
Great, thanks ya'll. And yes, Dave I'd like to see what you're talking about. I thought I'd settle in tonight and start crunching numbers and try to base it on expected use of said plane over a year's time.
I'll give you a call......
 
There are a couple of extra things on the 152 that maybe aren't on others... it has a panel mount GPS, it can be certified for instrument flight, it has a Lord shimmy dampener so it doesn't do that nosewheel feels like it might vibrate off thing that some can do and it has an aux. tank that means that you can carry 39 gals of useable fuel - If you aren't big and are flying solo - which has certainly been a good thing for me on long X/C because I can fly 5.5 hrs w/out having to land....
But, of course, since it's my plane I probably have "barn blindness" :)
 
Our club charges $67 wet on the tach for a 152 that is IFR certified, no GPS but 2 nav/com, dual glide slope, transponder... and everything works. We do have monthly dues. We are scheduled to get a second next month for the same price.

They're old (so am i) but well maintained and good aesthetics.

Pricing rental airplanes is tough. I think if you think of it from a purely business stand point, should I invest money in an airplane, the stock market, or California state bonds the airplane is probably the worst odds and the most work. On the other hand, if you start from I'm paying this much to have the airplane available and airworthy and ask how will it look if I rent it, it's different.

Good luck and I really hope you're happy with your decision.
Don't expect renters to care as much about your plane as you do. They aren't malicious, but when was the last time you washed a rental car?

Joe
 
Jeanie:
Renting is hard on airplanes, so become detached.
 
In West TX I don't know how well you'll fare at $70-$80, but then, I'm not sure you'll do much better at $59 either.
 
I'm only planning to rent to my students and I'll reserve the right not to if necessary... I talked w/ that young married couple today and they didn't blink when I told them 80 for the plane. The rates in our "neighborhood"- of some 300 miles radius- that I checked by phone and online, is 80-89.
 
Henning said:
In West TX I don't know how well you'll fare at $70-$80, but then, I'm not sure you'll do much better at $59 either.
Click to expand...

Let's say (based on wild estimates of 200hrs/yr, and other assumptions & roundings I have made below):
Fuel is 4/gal, burn is 6/hr....24.00/hr
Oil, 6qts @ 4/qt; every 30hrs plus filter...1.00/hr
Hangar est. 500/yr or /200hrs......2.50/hr
Insurance est. 4000/yr or 200hrs...20.00/hr
Engine reserves 15K/2000hrTBO...7.50/hr
Avionics reserves 3K/10yrs or 2000hrs....1.50/hr
P/I reserves 5K/10yrs or 2000hrs.....2.50/hr
insurance deductible 200(est) every 2yrs/400hrs...0.50/hr
damage (with no ins claim filed) 500/yr....2.50/hr
surprise repairs 500/yr....2.50/hr
annual and routine mx...800/yr....4.00/hr
add costs I missed here.....
a profit is a reasonable expectation in all business endeavors.....X.00/hr
What does all that come up to??
Feel free to copy, modify and post your alterations.
 
comes up to 68.50 which is way lower than your original estimate as I recall...
When I find out for real what it's turning out to be I'll post something. First I have to have a discussion w/ the insurance company and get a correct amt for that and then a few other considerations.
But, whatever it works out to be we all know that a lone CFI in her little 152 isn't going to be profitable as a big business :)... but it will be profitable in terms of satisfaction and teaching and well maybe the amount that I will get paid per hour.
At least some of the income will go towards supporting my habit. :)
 
Jeanie said:
comes up to 68.50 which is way lower than your original estimate as I recall...
When I find out for real what it's turning out to be I'll post something. First I have to have a discussion w/ the insurance company and get a correct amt for that and then a few other considerations.
But, whatever it works out to be we all know that a lone CFI in her little 152 isn't going to be profitable as a big business :)... but it will be profitable in terms of satisfaction and teaching and well maybe the amount that I will get paid per hour.
At least some of the income will go towards supporting my habit. :)
Click to expand...

Remember, the $68.50 from Dr. Dave is BEFORE you add in a profit for yourself. So the $80-85/hr sounds about right for an 18-25% profit.
 
Jeanie said:
comes up to 68.50 which is way lower than your original estimate as I recall...
When I find out for real what it's turning out to be I'll post something. First I have to have a discussion w/ the insurance company and get a correct amt for that and then a few other considerations.
But, whatever it works out to be we all know that a lone CFI in her little 152 isn't going to be profitable as a big business :)... but it will be profitable in terms of satisfaction and teaching and well maybe the amount that I will get paid per hour.
At least some of the income will go towards supporting my habit. :)
Click to expand...
Jeanie,

if you're the only instructor teaching in it, Avemco had a program just for that situation. I checked it out a couple of years ago but 2 of the co-owners are instructors and it didn't work but the price did look good.

Joe
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Remember, the $68.50 from Dr. Dave is BEFORE you add in a profit for yourself. So the $80-85/hr sounds about right for an 18-25% profit.
Click to expand...
Well as much as I like Troy's interpretation, I would say 18-25% is closer to the accuracy of anybody's cost estimate.

I do think it's a reasonable thing to do.

From a financial perspective, I would start from the position that you own the plane and it costs you so much now. As opposed to I'm going to borrow money or take it out of that investment to put into this venture.

From an instructor perspective, it will provide you with a good solid plane to teach in versus what? no teaching?

From a good citizen in the aviation community perspective, you are giving your potential students an opportunity they wouldn't have otherwise.

Good for you Jeanie!

Joe
 
Has the OP discussed this situation with her insurance agent? I thought about putting my 150 in a rental situation, but the increase in insurance ate away my profits to the point where I'd be breaking even to watch my aircraft disintegrate (further).

People always talk about insurers not paying due to violations of the FARs, which I myself doubt ever happened in the history of insurance or FARs. But I could see insurance not paying a claim on a rental that was not insured as such. Not saying I know it ever happened, but I could see it.
 
I had AVEMCO for the 152 just for my husband and me and then I talked w/ Falcon and got a cheaper quote when I added the super D. I'll talk w/ both of them again re: the CFI in my plane scenario part and see what happens.
The plane is paid for and I have had it for 6 yrs now and used it a lot just for me. So, depreciation-wise in terms of business well??? Anyway, I think it's important to have a plane here in this area where people can learn to fly and that's what I"m gonna do unless it just becomes untenable or they are too big for the plane. :)
However, nobody gets to fly the decathlon but me and other acro nuts that I know and fly with on occasion... It will not be used for tailwheel endorsements or training.
 
From an instructor perspective, it will provide you with a good solid plane to teach in versus what? no teaching?

From a good citizen in the aviation community perspective, you are giving your potential students an opportunity they wouldn't have otherwise.

Good for you Jeanie!

~~~~~~~~ Thanks Joe!
 
I charge $71/hour for a 150 in LNK.
 
Clay, is it your plane? I'd like to PM you and ask a few questions if that's OK ....
 
Yes, the spin AD is done on my plane :)..... not that I intend to do intentional spins in the plane but, hey, ya never know

It's more fun to do spins in the decathlon
 
There was a spin AD on the 150? Sorry to be dumb, but I owned one for years and never heard word one about it. Not that I would spin mine, more people have died from spin training than spins. More importantly, the gyros weren't caged and could be damaged by spins (or so I was told at the time).
 
It's a recent AD - sometime last year and had to be completed by this June. Requires a special stop rudder kit - apparently folks were applying too much pressure on the rudder and slamming them past the stops where they would get stuck - no recovery that way and folks died.
Frankly the stops on my plane looked just as beefy as the required ones ....
 
jesse said:
I'll pay another $5 per hour if the spin AD is done on it :)
Click to expand...

Actually the $5 will be for the BK Av8or I'm going to put into the dash....J/K all my treat come December.

Travis has the tail bolt kit and will put it on in as soon as these last 18 hours burn off.




I seem to get into unintentional spins pretty often. I really need to practice my rudder coordination.:wink2:
 
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Jeanie said:
Clay, is it your plane? I'd like to PM you and ask a few questions if that's OK ....
Click to expand...

Actually it is "ours" me and my wife sold it into the LLC for rental.
Feel free.

Thanks,
Clay
 
taters said:
Actually the $5 will be for the BK Av8or I'm going to put into the dash....J/K all my treat come December.

Travis has the tail bolt kit and will put it on in as soon as these last 18 hours burn off.




I seem to get into unintentional spins pretty often. I really need to practice my rudder coordination.:wink2:
Click to expand...
Cool.
 
steingar said:
There was a spin AD on the 150? Sorry to be dumb, but I owned one for years and never heard word one about it. Not that I would spin mine, more people have died from spin training than spins. More importantly, the gyros weren't caged and could be damaged by spins (or so I was told at the time).
Click to expand...
http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-14_ad.asp
Jeanie said:
It's a recent AD - sometime last year and had to be completed by this June. Requires a special stop rudder kit - apparently folks were applying too much pressure on the rudder and slamming them past the stops where they would get stuck - no recovery that way and folks died.
Frankly the stops on my plane looked just as beefy as the required ones ....
Click to expand...
Not quite. The one crash had the rudder stop installed upside down. The other crash suggested that the rudder was slammed to the side during the ground impact and not during flight. The AD is pretty ridiculous. The design worked fine for like 60 years. Suddenly someone installs it correctly and crashes and the entire fleet needs to be changed.
 
Oh, Thanks Jesse for explaining it. Anyway, yes, it's ridiculous and madatory so .....
 
Jeanie said:
comes up to 68.50 which is way lower than your original estimate as I recall...
When I find out for real what it's turning out to be I'll post something. First I have to have a discussion w/ the insurance company and get a correct amt for that and then a few other considerations.
But, whatever it works out to be we all know that a lone CFI in her little 152 isn't going to be profitable as a big business :)... but it will be profitable in terms of satisfaction and teaching and well maybe the amount that I will get paid per hour.
At least some of the income will go towards supporting my habit. :)
Click to expand...

I think the all around maint costs were on the lucky level of the low side. $3k for 10 years of avionics use? Annual and all repairs and maint at $1800year?
Not saying it's not possible, but you need some really good karma. Both of those can easily triple in one event. Hell, tires ain't even cheap and it's going to be a primary trainer on some damned hot asphalt. You going to charge students for tires directly?
 
Hell, tires ain't even cheap and it's going to be a primary trainer on some damned hot asphalt. You going to charge students for tires directly?[/QUOTE]

~~~~~~~ Well, now Henning that's a good question. Remember that thread that went on and on about that student being charged for ruining a tire on his first solo? Have to give that some thought :)

(NA) So, how's the Indian Ocean at this time of year?
 
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