What are they thinking in England?

NC Pilot

NC Pilot

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NC Pilot
NC Pilot said:
What are they thinking of? NO punishment. Do they think this will reduce crime?

Sheesh.
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If I lived there, I'd be fleeing for the hills...especially since you're not allowed to defend yourself in England.

The same leniency will be shown to criminals responsible for more than 60 other different offences, ranging from arson through vandalism to sex with underage girls.
 
Frank Browne said:
Don't they disallow most firearm ownership there?? :dunno:
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Handguns are strictly regulated but other firearms such as shotguns are pretty easy to obtain. And that does not include all of the illeagal handguns in country which are no harder to get there than here.

FYI: Current high level overview of gun ownership requirements for the UK
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SHOTGUNS[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A shotgun is described as a smooth-bore gun (not being an air-weapon) which has a barrel not less than 24 inches with a bore diameter not exceeding 2 inches. You must apply for a Shotgun Certificate from your local police force before you can own one.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You must be over 17 years or if younger, have your parent's signed permission. Guns should be kept in a secure place when not in use as should ammunition.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shotguns held on a shotgun certificate cannot have a capacity of more than three cartridges otherwise they become firearms (see below). You may be asked to show 'good reason' for wanting a gun ie. membership of a clay shooting club or pest control etc. Purchase of a shotgun and/or ammunition must take place in person. The vendor (your local dealer) must transfer the gun to the certificate holder face to face. It is unlawful to carry a loaded shotgun in a public place without reasonable excuse.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]FIREARMS[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Use of a firearm in the UK requires the possession of a Firearms Certificate. You can apply for a certificate if you are aged over 17 from your local police force. A firearm usually describes a cartridge loading, rifled barrel longarm (rifle) with a barrel not shorter than 300mm.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Overall length of the firearm must not be less than 600mm unless it is a muzzle loader. Muzzle loading rifles or pistols, shotguns with a magazine capacity greater than 3, airguns with power ratings exceeding figures stated above, and historic pistols kept at home as part of a collection or kept at a designated historic site and are used for non-competitive target practice are all classed as firearms. You are unlikely to be granted a certificate unless you can show good reason for wanting a firearm. This usually means being a member of a recognised shooting club, or having the permission of a landowner on whose land you can hunt.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shooting clubs are now obliged by law to keep a register of attendance which effectively monitors your 'good reason' for owning a firearm. Firearms must be stored in a high level of security. Guns will need to be kept in a safe at all times when not in use, and ammunition will be secured in a separate location.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Purchase and transfer of firearms has to be conducted face to face so most dealers operate on a clearing system whereby a mail order purchase from an out of town dealer will be sent to your local gun shop, the transaction then completed between you and the local dealer. Any firearm transaction has to be notified to your local police force.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Muzzle loaders are now the only legal usable handguns available to UK shooters (apart from the historic cartridge firing handguns kept at designated sites). However, in order to conduct your shooting you will need a supply of blackpowder which as a classified explosive, has its own restrictions requiring the acquisition of a blackpowder certificate from your police force.[/FONT]
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I lived in the country and most households had guns and hunted. It was a lot like here. I am not passing judgement on them, they are just different than here. Funny thing was I did not have a gun over there as I was a foreigner. But I did carry a weapon with me as part of my work duties. I was off-base once with it as part of an honor guard detail. The firing party had M16s with blanks. Rules are that I had the pistol with the real ammo in it to fend off anyone trying to steal them.

We were in a bus and a local policman saw the rifles and pulled us over. He wanted to confiscate the weapons until he could determine if we were allowed to have them legally off of the base. He and I stepped outside, I mentioned that I would happily take the bus directly to the police station and cooperate in anyway except one. That being surrendering the weapons and if anyone were to attempt a forcable seizure of them I was under order to use deadly force to prevent them from being succefull.

His response to being told basically 'touch the guns and I'll shoot you' was interesting, he quickly realized he was outgunned (he did not know the M16s had blanks) many to none. A few radio calls later and we were on our way. The long term ramifications were that the local police requested that the base inform them when weapons would be taken off base in the future. No isues with what I did, whew! Thank you status of forces agreement!!
 
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smigaldi said:
Handguns are strictly regulated but other firarms such as shotguns are pretty easy to obtain.
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I stand corrected. I guess you could be relatively safe in merry olde England as long as you never leave your house.:hairraise:
 
Frank Browne said:
I'll hand it to those limey's. They make beautiful shotguns!

http://www.purdey.com/index.php
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I stopped by the James Purdey and Sons shop in London in 1978. Hope I didn't leave too many drool marks on the counter. Bought a pair of shooting glasses with interchangable lenses (three different colors for different lighting conditions) with their name and logo on the case. That was about all I could afford in that place. Beautiful craftsmanship.
 
Frank Browne said:
I stand corrected. I guess you could be relatively safe in merry olde England as long as you never leave your house.:hairraise:
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Frank, not really. While you are allowed to own a shotgun, you can't use it to defend yourself in the event you are attacked.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v26n2/cpr-26n2-1.pdf

Read the article. If attacked on the street, you should hit your attacker with a purse or handbag and yell "call the police" - not "help". Others are not to help you defend yourself.

What a pile of horse dodo.
 
Still felt safer on the streets on London unarmed (the couple times I've been) than I do on the streets of Seattle or Atlanta armed.
 
This might be sorta relevant:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA040706.womanattacked.en.11be8cc7.html

http://www.ktsa.com/pages/23139.php?

WOMAN WHACKS BURGLAR WITH BAT


A 30-YEAR OLD WOMAN CHASED A BURGLAR OUT OF HER HOUSE USING A BASEBALL BAT.


SAN ANTONIO POLICE SAY THE WOMAN WOKE UP BEFORE TWO FRIDAY MORNING TO FIND 37-YEAR OLD JUAN CABALLERO IN HER HOME IN THE ONE-HUNDRED BLOCK OF VASSAR LANE.

POLICE SAY THE HE WAS ARMED WITH A KNIFE FROM HER KITCHEN. THE WOMAN SCREAMED AND GRABBED A BASEBALL BAT.

SHE FORCED CABALLERO TO HER FRONT PORCH AND WHACKED THE INTRUDER ON THE HEAD SO HARD THAT HE FELL FACE FIRST INTO A FLOWER POT.

HE RAN AWAY, BUT POLICE FOUND CABALLERO HIDING IN A NEARBY METAL SHED AND BLEEDING FROM THE HEAD.

HE WAS BOOKED INTO THE BEXAR COUNTY JAIL FOR BURGLARY OF A HABITATION WITH INTENT TO COMMIT A FELONY OR THEFT.
 
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NC Pilot said:
Frank, not really. While you are allowed to own a shotgun, you can't use it to defend yourself in the event you are attacked.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v26n2/cpr-26n2-1.pdf

Read the article. If attacked on the street, you should hit your attacker with a purse or handbag and yell "call the police" - not "help". Others are not to help you defend yourself.

What a pile of horse dodo.
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That was a sobering read. I totally fail to understand how a society would collectively roll over and allow their own government to deprive them of that most basic of all rights. I'm stunned.
 
The same has happened in Australia ... makes you wonder "who's next"?
 
smigaldi said:
The regs are more onerous there than here I will grant you that. But still doable.
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That is wrong. The U.K. has banned most firearms and is even banning knives now. You can't own firearms even in your house, let alone carry them for self defense.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Still felt safer on the streets on London unarmed (the couple times I've been) than I do on the streets of Seattle or Atlanta armed.
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Feeling safe and being safe are very different. I'll stay armed thanks, in jurisdictions where the perps KNOW I CAN BE ARMED.
 
My guess? They're thinking:

"Wow, I'd really like some tea, and a government that functions."
 
alaskaflyer said:
Still felt safer on the streets on London unarmed (the couple times I've been) than I do on the streets of Seattle or Atlanta armed.
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But, perception is not always reality.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/01/ncrime01.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/12/01/ixhome.html

"The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations."
 
I can easily see the same thing happening here. We gleefully surrender anything that some TSA agent feels might be dangerous when going into an airport concourse. It's a different world since 9/11 doncha know. We are encouraging and rewarding criminals crossing our borders by giving them free health care, government insured loans, in state tuition (if you can prove you have been here illegally for three years), and very shortly automatic citizenship. Chicago and many other cities have outlawed private ownership of firearms (unless you are a member of the ruling or criminal class). A man a year or two ago was charged with firearms violations when he shot an intruder inside his home in a Chicago suburb. Criminals routinely injure themselves in commision of their crimes and sue the victims... successfully. Methinks we, if not living in a glass house here, have mighty big picture windows to be throwing stones.
 
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