What are the cost involved?

98C5Vette

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LT
This is my first post but I have been lurking and find that this is a great forum with lots of helpful information. I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but I could not find the answer using the search option.
Assume one has an older Cessna 172 or 182 paid for and in good shape that is in no need of repair. What would the annual cost be to maintain this plane for someone that would not log more than 100 hours of flying per year, less fuel and insurance? What I am referring to is annuals and general upkeep.
I am thinking of purchasing an aircraft and was just wondering what I would be getting into.
Thanks in advance:)
 
LT, welcome to the board!

While I'm not that knowledgeable in costs associated with owning an aircraft, you'll find a wealth of information from a great many folks on the board who are. If you ever have an aviation question that can't be answered here, go by a lottery ticket! :)
 
LT, welcome aboard!

As I'm sure you know, that isn't a question that has a black-and-white answer. Some additional information might help give a slightly more educated guess, though. You said "older", but does that mean '50s, '60s, '70s, or '80s to you?

I presume that you're interested only in upkeep, not upgrading, but what kind of a stack would it have? All original equipment, upgraded to Garmin 530, or somewhere in between? IFR?

Do you plan to hangar it, or just tie it down? (We can't even guess at the cost of either of those unless we know where you'd be keeping it, though. I mean location here. e.g. Chicago vs. Ames IA.)
 
Welcome ,LT
i do owner assisted annuals (if your A&P wil do them),they cost me $300 if nothing is needed.
I also do my own oil changes,and some maintainance i do oil change every 50 hours, thats usually 2 a year for me. you'll need to search for best prices on Oil and Filters. i look for deals on them( buying in bulk,2 cases of oil) hope this helps.
BTW you need to fill in your profile so we can tell where you are from.

Dave G :blueplane:
 
Been a while since I posted this, so...
********************
Aircraft Ownership Costs
********************
copyright 1998, 2005 by Ronald B. Levy, all rights reserved


This paper discusses the costs of owning a typical family airplane (4-seat, 4-cylinder 150-180 HP, fixed gear, fixed prop – for two-seaters, see the note at the bottom). It’s based on 25 years of (at various times) ownership, flying club management, and FBO experience. We currently own a 180 HP Grumman Tiger, owned a 150 HP Grumman AA-5A Cheetah for ten years, and previously owned a Grumman AA-1B Yankee for several years. I’ve been a founder and officer of two flying clubs, and a member of two others. I’ve also spent a few years as an instructor and charter pilot for an FBO.

Initial Purchase: Price range depends on type, age, and condition. New aircraft in this class in 2005 are going for around $250,000. For a “typical” used aircraft in this class, the price in 2005 is anywhere from about $40,000 and up. For an average airplane built before the production crash of the 1980’s, prices will run around $35K to $80K. The question then arises as to how to pay for it. If you get a loan from a bank, you’ll be making monthly payments based on the loan value, interest rate, and term of the loan. Check with a bank on what you can get. Stick with banks that have existing aviation loan operations -- the others don’t understand the business and you’ll wind up with a bad deal. Check the aviation magazines for banks advertising aircraft loans. Remember that unlike a car, an airplane that is over seven years old will appreciate in value. I bought a 1976 Cheetah for about $21K in 1990 and sold it (with a number of improvements) for $47K in 2000. To get a feel for asking prices, check out a few issues of Trade-a-Plane, but remember that these are asking prices -- there is generally some negotiating room. Also, take a look at the AeroPrice software advertised on AvWeb or the Vref valuation on AOPA’s web site (free to members).

In addition to the price of the airplane, there are a lot of “gotchas” to consider, including AD compliance, title searches, pre-purchase inspections, etc. Always expect to spend a couple of thousand making sure that the airplane you buy is a) actually in the condition you think/he says it’s in, b) up to speed on FAA paperwork, and c) legally yours clear of encumberences from the previous owner or other lienholders. But when you’re buying a $60,000 airplane, that’s small change compared to the potential risk. People have spent tens of thousands fixing problems they discovered after they bought it or complying with AD’s they didn’t know about. People have lost their entire investment when some bank shows up with a lien on the plane they just bought and takes it -- and the person from whom they bought it is GONE. AOPA has an excellent title search and AD list service, and you damn sure better get the plane inspected BEFORE you buy by a mechanic who a) is familiar with that type of aircraft and b) you personally trust with your life and money. This may mean paying your mechanic’s time and expenses out to the plane -- that’s the biggest bite. If the plane is local, it’s easier. Or you may be able to get the seller to fly it out to your mechanic for expenses if you don’t buy it.

Many prospective owners consider “lease-back” deals with FBO’s or flying clubs. If you are buying an airplane as a tax shelter, this is a good idea. If you are buying it to fly, forget it. You lose control of the plane, and are at the mercy of others. Expect it to be abused by other pilots, and not to be available when you want it. Maintenance will be performed at the discretion of others. In other words, you become a banker, not an aircraft owner. I know of no active pilot who went this route and liked the result.

Direct Costs: This includes the costs of ownership that are directly driven by how much you fly the aircraft. These include fuel/oil, routine maintenance, and overhaul reserve.

Aircraft in this category burn about 8.5 to 10 gallons per hour. Avgas generally costs $3.00 to $3.50 in the continental US, so fuel cost will run $25-35 per hour. Add in the cost of an oil change every 50 hours (8 quarts at $2.50/quart for standard single grade oil) plus oil burn of a quart every 8 hours or so, and that’s another $1 per hour (plus labor if you don’t do the oil change yourself). Figure an average of $32/hour.

Routine maintenance includes the cost of fixing those things that break or wear out during routine use. This includes everything from tires to brakes to light bulbs (and aviation-certified light bulbs cost a lot more than other bulbs) to radios. Remember that the average airplane in this class has about 5 radios in it (2 nav/coms, ADF, transponder, LORAN/GPS). My experience is that the cost of maintenance is about half the cost of fuel -- this has held up over many years as fuel prices have risen from 35-40 cents a gallon in the 1960’s up to today’s prices, and over the range of aircraft (those that burn more fuel require more maintenance. Figure another $16/hour.

Overhaul reserve is the cost of overhauling the engine. Aircraft engines in this class require a major overhaul after about 2000 hours of operation. This includes complete teardown; replacement of spark plugs, pistons, and rings; refurbishing cylinder walls and crankshaft; and overhaul of all engine accessories (starter, alternator, carburetor, magnetos, etc). The cost of the overhaul for these engines is around $15,000 plus removal, shipping, and reinstallation. Allow about $9/hour.

Indirect costs: These are costs that do not depend on how much you fly the plane, but rather on the passage of time. They include annual inspection, biennial static system and transponder check, insurance, storage, paint, and interior.

Annual inspections are required by the FAA. Usually it takes a couple of days plus time for any work on items the inspector discovers as being required. The cost of the inspection itself on these airplanes is on the order of $700 plus any repair or other maintenance work. Those extras are included in the routine maintenance figure under direct operating costs.

The static system check is required for instrument flight operations, and the transponder check is required for all aircraft with transponders. These must be done every two years, and run about $300 for both together. You would be ill-advised not to have both done even if you are flying only VFR since a) it’s hard to sell an airplane without this check and b) your airspeed indicator and altimeter are extremely important to safety.

Insurance is a necessity. You have two principal areas to cover -- liability and hull. Liability is the same as your auto insurance -- it covers you for injuries, death, and damage to the property of others. Insurance companies usually recommend $1,000,000/$100,000 liability coverage. That means each of your passengers is covered for up to $100,000 and your total liability coverage is $1,000,000 in a single accident. Hull insurance is a combination of what your auto policy would call “collision” (damage to your vehicle in an in-motion accident) and “comprehensive” (damage to your vehicle when it’s parked -- hit and run, vandalism, theft, etc). The price for insurance coverage is driven by your piloting experience and qualifications, the value of the airplane, the use of the plane, and the insurance company’s loss experience with your make/model of airplane. Liability coverage is usually independent of aircraft value, and hull coverage is usually a percentage of aircraft value. For a $60,000 airplane personal use (pleasure plus incidental business flying), the total price could run from $1100 per year for an accident/violation-free 5000-hour ATP to $2000 a year or more for a student pilot.

Storage means where to put the plane when you’re not flying it. Options include hangars, shelters, and tiedowns. Hangar options include individual T-hangars and communal hangars (large hangars in which many aircraft are stored. T-hangar options include heating, electrical outlets, lighting, and powered doors; prices for this size aircraft can run from $150 to $500 per month depending on locality, but usually in the $175-250 range. Tiedowns are simply space on the airport (sometimes on the grass) with anchors for tie-down ropes. Prices can run from $30 to $150 depending on locality, but usually in the $50-100 range. Shelters are long roofed structures without walls over a whole row of aircraft. Prices will be midway between tie-down and hangar. Expect a small insurance break if you store the airplane in a locked hangar, but only a small fraction of the cost of the hangar. Figure $2400 per year for an example, but get good numbers from the local airports.

The principal advantage of hangaring as opposed to open storage is protection of the aircraft from the elements. This affects primarily maintenance, interior, and paint, and has an indirect effect on resale value. For example, a quality paint job will last about twice as long if the airplane is hangared. When our Cheetah was 20 years old, we were often asked where and when we had the interior refurbished. In fact, it was the original interior -- the plane had been hangared since new.

Paint is a significant concern. Weatherbeaten, cracked, peeling paint or bare spots are not only bad for resale value, but also can lead to corrosion problems. Virtually all airplanes in this category came from the factory with standard enamel paint. Virtually all repaintings are done with top-quality polyurethane paint (Imron, AcryGlo, Alumigrip, etc). Polyurethane is longer lasting, thicker, harder, and glossier, and significantly increases the value of the airplane. Cost of a paint job for an airplane in this class can be $5,000 to $10,000 depending on the quality and details. The life of a paint job can be 10 to 20 years depending on location (climate) and storage (hangar or tie-down). Figure an allowance of $500 per year.

Interiors include seat upholstery, headliners, and side panels. This is one area you can do yourself as opposed to having it done. There are several sources for aircraft-specific kits including all the upholstery and paneling. Materials cost for a complete interior refurbishment on these sorts of planes is around $1500-2000, and figure double that for a “professional” job. How often? Interior life is more variable than paint. Not only is it subject to climate and exposure, but also to use. Consider the difference in interior wear for an owner-driven car versus a commercial vehicle such as a taxicab or construction company pickup. However, a 10 to 20 year life is a good estimate. Let’s figure another $150 per year.

So what does this all come to?

Direct operating costs should run about $57 per hour, and indirect costs should run about $6500 per year. Now remember that these figures include reserves for overhaul, paint, and interior. You don’t have to spend that money until they’re due after 10 to 20 years, but they’re a big bite if you haven’t budgeted for them. Beyond that is the capital cost of the aircraft. Figuring a $60,000 airplane, and you’ve got maybe $4000 in capital cost for either loan interest or the cost of funds tied up in the airplane if you own it outright, although you’ll get maybe half of that back in appreciation in value.

Now, get ready for some big numbers -- but don’t get scared by them (if you do, forget owning an airplane). Let’s say you fly this plane a typical 100 hours per year. Run all the above numbers out and you’ll see that if you own a plane for twenty years, you can figure on spending about $245,000 over those twenty years. That averages out to about $125 per hour. A comparable airplane rented from an FBO will run about $100 per hour. Of course, if you fly it more, the price differential gets smaller -- breakeven with a rental occurs at around 200 hours per year. If you aren’t flying 60-80 hours a year, you run into other problems, primarily in maintaining your proficiency and keeping the airplane in good condition. The worst thing you can do to an airplane is to let it sit unused. The engine, instruments, avionics, wheels/brakes, and flight controls will deteriorate. If the airplane regularly goes weeks at a time without flying, you are looking for extra maintenance costs due to corrosion, deterioration, and shortened overhaul intervals.

Our experience has been an average of 140 hours per year, but we for a number of reasons, we fly a lot more than most. FAA data suggests that 75-100 hours per year is typical of the average owner-flown aircraft who actually fly their planes (a lot of planes just sit and rot). And if you aren’t flying this much, it’s hard to justify the cost other than to write it off as a hobby for which cost is not a prime consideration. After all, owning a boat can be a lot more expensive, and it won’t go 140 mph or on a business trip to Dayton, Ohio. And we USE that airplane a lot -- business trips, personal and vacation travel all over the East Coast -- for trips we’d otherwise make on the airlines or by car. So we can balance some of the costs as money we’d have spent anyway. Even though the car is less expensive in cash cost, the ability to turn a 10-hour drive into a 3-hour flight has significant noncash value and can often save us an overnight.

So why spend the extra $25 per hour? No daily minimums. No restrictions on night/instrument flight. Availability -- if you want to fly, it’s there. (If you want it over Memorial Day weekend to fly two hours to Grandma’s house and two hours home three days later, you can do it. Just try getting an FBO to let you do that with their airplane. Bet you’d see a four-hour per day minimum on a summer weekend, if they’d even let you do it at all.) Condition -- think about how the average rental plane looks compared to your personal car. And it’s equipped and maintained the way YOU want it -- you just don’t see IFR GPS’s and engine analyzers in rental aircraft, and I can assure you that the average FBO doesn’t maintain their airplanes as fastidiously as we do ours.

All in all, owning an airplane is more expensive than owning a car, but can be worth it if you are going to fly it regularly.

P.S. If you’re looking at a two-seater (C-150, AA-1, Tomahawk), expect a reduction of about one-third in insurance, 10% in maintenance, zero change for hangar/tiedown, 30% in fuel per hour (but only about 15% in fuel per mile), and 20% for interior and paint.
Note that the above is based on 2005 prices. However, only fuel cost has changed enough to matter much.
 
Ron, that is very informative! :)
 
Ron, great article. Do you have it on pdf or other format that can be saved?
 
In that article Ron also pointed out several other important items - such as that of remaining safe and proficient, which requires at least reasonably frequent practice. My mom, for example, is a genuinely awful driver. No amount if practice would make her a good driver; I believe it's just not in her. However part of her issue, I believe, was a matter of practice. She would drive perhaps 2-3 times a month, and that would be it. If she actually drove frequently enough to remember the difference between the turn signal and windshield wiper stalks, that would probably help. :)

I have some friends who would be far better off renting their planes - they pay a lot of money to have the planes sit and rot. One friend of mine needs to have his 182 restored almost entirely because it is tied down outside and he flies it a maximum of about 10 hours per year.

The point about saving time is a big one for me. On Monday when my instructor and I flew my fiancee back to Princeton from IPT, in a total of 2 hours round trip we did what would have been an 8 hour drive. That by itself is worth a lot when you're trying to do it after work and need to wake up the next morning. :)
 
This is my first post but I have been lurking and find that this is a great forum with lots of helpful information. I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but I could not find the answer using the search option.
Assume one has an older Cessna 172 or 182 paid for and in good shape that is in no need of repair. What would the annual cost be to maintain this plane for someone that would not log more than 100 hours of flying per year, less fuel and insurance? What I am referring to is annuals and general upkeep.
I am thinking of purchasing an aircraft and was just wondering what I would be getting into.
Thanks in advance:)

As long as the plane is truly in good shape (it can take big bucks to put one back into that condition if it's deteriorated), I'd plan on $500-750 for annual maintenance on a 172 plus another $150 or so for a mid year oil change. Figure another hundred or so for a 182.

Like another said you can knock a few hundred off that if you do as much of the work yourself as you can.

Also FWIW, it's generally a good idea to plan on around 10% of the value of any recently purchased airplane for the first year's maintenance.
 
In addition to Ron's great info, in this case I would suggest joining the Cessna Pilot's Association, and getting involved with the "subculture" related to your specific airplane. You'll get a lot more specific advice and costing items.

If you're only going to fly 100 hours a year, I'd urge you to consider a partnership with one or more additional pilots. Sell them a small share of the airplane (does NOT have to be an equal share) and let them pay into the "plane fund" for the time they use the airplane. You'll likely find that flying the airplane more frequently actually REDUCES hourly operating costs, assuming that the others treat the airplane with pride. You may hear horror stories about "renters", but I've found that when you give someone the privilege of ownership, even a small piece, the pride that comes with the keys generally results in good treatment of the airplane. I know I always tried to leave the mooney I partnered in in as good or better shape then when I took it out - sometimes that meant a wash and wax, or a cleanup, sometimes it meant doing the windows, or just replacing the CO detector batteries.
 
This is my first post but I have been lurking and find that this is a great forum with lots of helpful information. I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but I could not find the answer using the search option.
Assume one has an older Cessna 172 or 182 paid for and in good shape that is in no need of repair. What would the annual cost be to maintain this plane for someone that would not log more than 100 hours of flying per year, less fuel and insurance? What I am referring to is annuals and general upkeep.
I am thinking of purchasing an aircraft and was just wondering what I would be getting into.
Thanks in advance:)

I have a PA28-161 and leaving out the insurance, fuel, and hangar costs my maintenance bills, including annual are running right around $3-4000/year. So far, and I have a fairly average plane that is kept in very good condition, I have been hit by an AD that made me do a compete top overhaul. I have replaced just about everything firewall forward except the engine [vacuum pump, oil hoses, scat tubing,fuel lines, primer lines, starter, magnetos, spark plug wires), I had to have rebuilt two gyros, had an antenna cable go bad, some autopilot problem (wiring), a side window replaced, new tires, fuel tanks pulled for a spar inspection, lots of light bulbs. I try very hard to stay ahead of things so that I am not grounded by a failure.
 
If you pull up to the FBO and toss them the keys for maintenance...expect to pay $1,500-3,500/ yr in maintenance. Add your insurance & tiedown to that to get your average yearly fixed costs.

You could also be one of the unlucky ones and have a mis-fortunate AD or failure of some kind....plan on another $3,000-6,000 for unknowns.

I do all of my own maintenance on my Six (PA-32-260) and it has costed me around $1,000-2,000 in parts, supplies and IA services, but I also have a brand new rebuilt engine.

I fly about 50-75 hrs per year.
 
What great responses! This will give me alot to work with. As for the plane I am looking to find a mid 60's 172 or 182. I am actually just getting starting and was wondering what I might be looking at as far as yearly cost. I already know what hanger fees would be and a guestimate on the insurance.

Thanks again for the info and the warm welcome!
 
Also, LT, be aware that at any time, an engine problem or airworthiness directive can lead to an expensive fix (let's say 10K, but insert your own number) over which you have little or no control. You have to be willing to cope with that without making yourself homeless. Not saying you have to have that in the bank, but you have to have some plan (eg home equity loan to repair and then sell the airplane to pay off the loan) to deal with a worst-case scenario.
 
I am looking to find a mid 60's 172 or 182.
Keep in mind that the 172/182's of that vintage all have 6-cylinder Continental engines, which are $2-3000 more expensive to overhaul than the 4-cylinder Lycoming engines in newer models (post-68 172's and 90's and newer 182's) and have shorter TBO's (1800 vice 2000 hours). Figure about $3/hour more including routine maintenance (plugs, etc) and overhaul.
 
Ron, how much, in your experience, does region of the country affect your numbers. I understand a major metro area is more expensive than a more rural locale, but I'm curious about east coast vs. west vs. mid west.
 
Ron, how much, in your experience, does region of the country affect your numbers. I understand a major metro area is more expensive than a more rural locale, but I'm curious about east coast vs. west vs. mid west.
Other than the cost of hangars, not a lot, and that (along with the cost of fuel) is more an issue of metropolitan versus rural than east/central/west. As I said, the paper is more of an overview than a serious cost proposal -- it mostly gives you ballpark ideas and an itemization of the costs to research locally and consider.
 
Understood. I suppose maint. cost varies by the climate the A/C is opperated in regardless of where it is kept.
 
Understood. I suppose maint. cost varies by the climate the A/C is opperated in regardless of where it is kept.
If you mean economic climate, absolutely, but the meteorological climate effects are less significant if the aircraft is flown often and properly stored between flights.
 
Keep in mind that the 172/182's of that vintage all have 6-cylinder Continental engines, which are $2-3000 more expensive to overhaul than the 4-cylinder Lycoming engines in newer models (post-68 172's and 90's and newer 182's) and have shorter TBO's (1800 vice 2000 hours). Figure about $3/hour more including routine maintenance (plugs, etc) and overhaul.

For a 172, I think you're correct. For the 182, you're way off. Since when is an IO-540 4 cylinders?

The older 182's have an O-470, with a 1500 hour TBO and $24,000 overhaul (according to Vref), or $16/hr. The newer ones have an IO-540, all six cylinders of it, with a 2000 hour TBO and $39,000 to overhaul, or $19.50/hr.

FWIW, our 1500-TBO O-470 is at 2100+ and going strong.
 
For a 172, I think you're correct. For the 182, you're way off. Since when is an IO-540 4 cylinders?
Since I stopped thinking before typing. However, historical data do suggest you'll get several hundred more hours before overhaul is needed with the 235HP IO-540 than the 230 HP O-470.
 
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