What aircraft?

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
Has the best return on the money spent on restoration. Amateur built included.
Keep in mind the purchase price vs selling price and the cost of restoration.
 
GlennAB1 said:
How 'bout you just tell us and save the argument...
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In this market I have no clue. The 170 projects are way too high, I sold the V-EZ because it required more money to finish than it would sell for. So.. the question. is there any aircraft that can be bought and restored cheaper than it will sell for?
 
I'm thinking airplane restorations are like house flipping. You gotta find a "don't want-er" who'll sell you a project at a deep discount to market value, and then find a "gotta-have-it" to sell to at the best price to make it worthwhile. There are so many people out there looking for "barn-finds" that its just gotten too competitive.
 
PaulS said:
I wouldn't touch that one. Why do people do things like this, looks like this guy just started pulling it apart, putting parts willy nilly in a bin. Here's a hint, if you have no plan you will end up with a mess. I'm willing to bet the reserve is 50k.
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Yep, for a plane that will barely fetch 30k when it's up and running and airworthy and in annual.
 
I inherited my Cub when my dad passed. He'd bought it in 1969, in the middle of restoring what is now myy brother's Cub, and flew it home, pulled the wings and stored it due to failed fabric. Some twenty plus years later, he finally started a slow restoration. It was finished through color when dad passed away. After sitting in the hangar for a few years and about $20K+ later, I finally got it flying. Part of that expense was my upgrading from the Continental A-65 (in pieces) to a C-85 (used, mid-time engine) which also necessitated buying new mags, impulses, harness, having to buy a new prop as my original had disappeared over the years. It was amazing how much all the nickle and dime stuff cost. I also added shoulder harnesses to both front and rear seats. I'm not an A&P/IA either so I had to have it inspected and signed off after 43 years of inactivity.

All that said, I doubt I could sell my Cub for more than $30K, if that. Not that I would. Unless you don't count your labor expense in the final tally, I don't know how one can make money.
 
Tom-D said:
Selling price is to low, the engine and prop up grades are more than the selling price.
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Are you saying they're not asking enough for it? "Selling price is to low" or are you saying it wouldn't sell for enough after putting it back together (and it needs an engine & prop upgrade)?
 
Tom-D said:
The sad part about this whole topic is, most of the GA fleet isn't worth a new engine.
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That should say somthing about the costs of the engine or the lack of care to the airframe or the asking price of the air frame.
 
jsstevens said:
Are you saying they're not asking enough for it? "Selling price is to low" or are you saying it wouldn't sell for enough after putting it back together (and it needs an engine & prop upgrade)?
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I'm pretty sure he is referring to the market value of an older Bonanza. You can buy a pretty nice running Bonanza for the cost of an engine overhaul. In fact you would be better off selling the airplane for parts after the engine has expired and buying another low time one than you would overhaul the engine especially if it needs a new crank or something.
 
depends Tom....ya just gotta pencil it out.
 
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midcap said:
That should say somthing about the costs of the engine or the lack of care to the airframe or the asking price of the air frame.
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Actually, you're not far off. The three big names, Lycoming, Continental, and Rotax represent the majority of the market in the piston aircraft world. Add in certification costs, liability and barriers for new developments to make it into the industry and conditions are just about perfect for what we have. Low competition, with high barriers to entry, and little incentive to innovate (if it ain't broke why fix it). In all reality, they shouldn't cost anymore than the flat 6 you find in an old Chevy.
 
Grum.Man said:
I'm pretty sure he is referring to the market value of an older Bonanza. You can buy a pretty nice running Bonanza for the cost of an engine overhaul. In fact you would be better off selling the airplane for parts after the engine has expired and buying another low time one than you would overhaul the engine especially if it needs a new crank or something.
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thanks or answering that better than I would have.
Checkout_my_Six said:
depends Tom....ya just gotta pencil it out.
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Not much to pencil, show me the cost of a new prop, and a 0-520 to replace that old electric prop. and E-185. see if that isn't higher than a good flying 54 beech bo.
 
midcap said:
That should say somthing about the costs of the engine or the lack of care to the airframe or the asking price of the air frame.
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Why do you believe that all the early 172s haven't been upgraded to a 180 horse Lycoming or a TCM IO-360 ?
Look up the price of a new engine then buy a 172 and see if you can sell the upgraded aircraft for the price of doing the upgrade.
 
Seems like a tough way to make a buck, more of a hobby than a job unless you can find a wealthy benefactor.
 
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The fact of the matter is you restore an airplane to save an old airplane and because you want that airplane and plan to keep it. You have emotional value towards it.

When it comes to fixing a salvaged airplane, you do it knowing you will have more in it than you could have bought a flying one for, but you know what you have in the end and plan to use it for a long time. You have to put aside the market value of the airplane and compare it to what something new would cost that does the same intended function. A fully restored and overhauled Bonanza is every bit as much of an airplane as a new Cirrus for about 1/4 of the money. But don't be fooled, you will have 3-4 times as much in it as a flying Bonanza of the same vintage except yours will be practically brand new. The problem is the people in the market looking for a practically new 6 figure early model Bonanza are few and far between.
 
Ryanb said:
Actually, you're not far off. The three big names, Lycoming, Continental, and Rotax represent the majority of the market in the piston aircraft world. Add in certification costs, liability and barriers for new developments to make it into the industry and conditions are just about perfect for what we have. Low competition, with high barriers to entry, and little incentive to innovate (if it ain't broke why fix it). In all reality, they shouldn't cost anymore than the flat 6 you find in an old Chevy.
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Tom-D said:
Why do you believe that all the early 172s haven't been upgraded to a 180 horse Lycoming or a TCM IO-360 ?
Look up the price of a new engine then buy a 172 and see if you can sell the upgraded aircraft for the price of doing the upgrade.
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That's what I mean. The price of 1940s engine tech is absurd.

I'd like to know total dollars awarded to plaintiffs regarding law suits around engine failure.
 
I have a friend who rebuilds Cessna 207's and leases them to operators in Alaska. But he knows what he's doing and has become Mr. 207..........making about 100 PMA'd parts in the machine shop of his large hangar. It "can" be done.

So far, there is no airplane to replace a 207, and many have 40,000 hours.
 
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