Went with CFI's recommendation, FBO owner thinks otherwise

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Meanee

Line Up and Wait
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Meanee
So, I am trying to qualify for DA-40 that my FBO has available for rent. Their rental requirement says following: "Requires 3 hours G1000 time. If time is met, 1 hour checkout. If time is not met, remaining time with FBO's instructor". Went up with CFI for 1 hour, and it seemed like a great plane. I decided to get qualified for it.

I asked CFI who works for the FBO if I can use a groupon I bought a while ago to do this. Groupon was for 1 hour sim (Frasca SR22) and 1 hour SR20 flight. He told me it would work, as long as sim is FAA certified.

Anyway, groupon fell through, and I got 2 hours of sim time in Redbird FMX sim with G1000. 1 hour with CFI, 1 hour alone. Feeling pretty comfortable in it.

Few days ago, I was in FBO, showed the logbook with sim time, and asked if I can rent it. They told me "No, company's owner said that sim time is not eligible". Now I feel like I wasted money on a sim (I did get some knowledge and gained comfort with G1000, not really a waste), and have to spend more on the checkout again.

FBO's owner seems to be this mythical entity. Won't reply to any of my emails, and I cannot get his number.

Do I fight it? Do I eat the cost of additional 2 hours?
 
What's two hours in aviation bucks. Go up and get a flight in the thing.
 
I don't mind flying, but I would rather take friend or a family member on a nice XC instead of buzzing around a pattern with a CFI. I actually wanted to take my mother and my girlfriend on a nice $100 hamburger and a scenic flight, now I have to spend 2 hours giving CFI a ride.
 
Meanee said:
I don't mind flying, but I would rather take friend or a family member on a nice XC instead of buzzing around a pattern with a CFI. I actually wanted to take my mother and my girlfriend on a nice $100 hamburger and a scenic flight, now I have to spend 2 hours giving CFI a ride.
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Find a CFI you like enough to invite to dinner. ;)
 
Is that CFI an employee of that FBO? If so, ask him why this is happening after he said what you did was enough. Note, of course, that the time in the Redbird sim without the instructor present is not, for FAA purposes, loggable. But, assuming that CFI works for that FBO, that doesn't change the fact that you've essentially been baited and switched, which is a banned trade practice.
 
Yes, the CFI is employee of that FBO. And I did get 1 hour of sim time signed by CFI.
 
Meanee said:
I asked CFI who works for the FBO if I can use a groupon I bought a while ago to do this. Groupon was for 1 hour sim (Frasca SR22) and 1 hour SR20 flight. He told me it would work, as long as sim is FAA certified.

Do I fight it? Do I eat the cost of additional 2 hours?
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If you can't find the owner of the FBO I recommend you talk to the CFI that told you that the sim would work.
Flying isn't very cheap (even though in a long run an extra flight wont make a difference) so I'd try to fight it. However if you want to be able to rent ASAP just doing an extra flight might be faster.
 
Then ask the CFI if Mom or GF can go along to get some food.

Tell him that you want some actual XC experience behind the G1000 and heading to a eatery 1hour away accomplishes that.

The CFI's I trained with were always hungry critters. Food bribes for XC's or end of day chin wags always were accepted.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Then ask the CFI if Mom or GF can go along to get some food.

Tell him that you want some actual XC experience behind the G1000 and heading to a eatery 1hour away accomplishes that.

The CFI's I trained with were always hungry critters. Food bribes for XC's or end of day chin wags always were accepted.
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Ding! The DA-40 has 4 seats, last time I checked. Mom and GF sit in the back.
 
I am not exactly a lightweight. But the point is, I feel that FBO screwing me, and was wondering what would others do in this case. It's not only about flying the CFI around, but also more or less money wasted on sim.
 
Plane owner sets the rules. If he/she says no sim, then that means no sim. They should probably tell you up front, but that's the way it goes.
 
I think u need to fight it. I'm with u. If the cfi told u that then something needs to be done to remedy the situation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Have you really mastered the G1000 already? It took me 10+ flying hours to get comfortable with my new GRT EFIS. If I was renting an aircraft worth $300,000+, you bet I would want actual flight time logged. Of course I would have informed you up front. If there are no other DA-40's nearby to rent, then you probably don't have much choice.
 
I wouldn't say I mastered it. But I am comfortable with it. Plus, it's for VFR only.
 
I'd just accept the extra hours. That's really a pretty quick checkout anyway. Enjoy on the extra training and make use of it. Maybe even do an instrument lesson. Make it a fun trip for some dinner.

There are bigger fights worth fighting.
 
Meanee said:
I don't mind flying, but I would rather take friend or a family member on a nice XC instead of buzzing around a pattern with a CFI.
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No comment on the "fight or flight" issue but if the issue is that the FBO wants a certain amount of G1000 (as opposed to DA40) time, your flights with a CFI should be mostly well away from the pattern. A cross country where you have a chance to fiddle with dials, touch buttons and move and select and locate information in cursor modes is more of what should be taking place. More a cross country than a bunch of maneuvers in the pattern or practice area.
 
Meanee said:
I am not exactly a lightweight. But the point is, I feel that FBO screwing me, and was wondering what would others do in this case. It's not only about flying the CFI around, but also more or less money wasted on sim.
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Is this a leaseback? If it is, and it were mine, I'd be nervous of anyone not willing to get a little checkout in it with the CFI. Do a XC with the CFI with girlfriend on board (she may even feel better about your flying if an"expert" is also along for the ride), or if not IR start in that AC with him, or if nearing BFR time do it in that AC.
 
I am not sure if it's backleased or not. I was told I still need to do few more takeoffs and landings, but I will ask to turn the rest into an instrument instruction flight.
 
My advice: take the CFI on a cross country for lunch with Mom and GF in the back seat. Forget what they told you initially, and feel happy that you are wise enough to decide you didn't really want to fly solo in a plane you aren't too familiar with, with avionics you are not too familiar with, all while you have the two most precious people in your life along for the ride. Life's too short to get p-o'ed about the little things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

If it makes you feel better, think about it charmically-- you weren't meant to fly that flight alone yet.
 
Unfortunately can't take CFI for lunch. He's booked solid, right after 2 hours that remain. Oh well. Not the first time extra money spent in aviation, certainly not last.
 
wsuffa said:
Welcome to the world of the rental fleet.
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LOL true that. But hey, if I eat nothing but ramen, I may be able to get a plane in next few years. And then I will eat nothing but ramen to pay for upkeep.
 
Who said it had to be lunch. Go for some dinner. The lights below are very nice, unless you live over barren night landscape. Maybe you can pay for dinner, and get the instructor to waive the instruction cost. If he will claim any fault.
 
I have a hunch that as time goes on in your life as an aviator, that you will find this to be one of the more minor things that will have been making a a series of many full frontal assaults on your bank account.

It is nothing, pay the extra bucks and get the rating.

-John
 
Unfortunately life tends to deal us a hand of cards that stinks. The FBO controls the plane. If they will not let you rent it with doing more dual time with a CFI, there is not much you can do. If you do not like their rules go to another FBO. I assume you have your PPL so if your goal is to take your girlfriend to lunch why does it have to be a Diamond. If it is to get time in the diamond, I truly doubt if the CFI is worth anything, it will be a worthwhile experience and you will learn something.

Doug
 
It kind of has to be a diamond. The FBO has only 2 4-seaters. One is a 172 who is always flown by owner on weekends. 2nd one is a Diamond and rarely flown because of extra rental requirements and extra cost.
 
I have a few thoughts:

It took me awhile to feel comfy with the G1000. For me, "comfy" meant this:

  1. Two hours of sim time
  2. Thoroughly reading, highlighting, and making notes in the Trescott
  3. One hour in the plane on the ground, hooked up to power
  4. Three hours in the air for VFR, and
  5. Three more hours in the air for IFR

Granted, it would have been faster had I had any 430 or 530 experience, but I'm also pretty fluent in computer interface "stuff."

So, I think if you do a few more hours in the airplane, you'll be happier.
 
Sounds like BS to me, it would be one thing if they asked for 3hrs in a G1000 diamond from the getgo.

Honestly, if you are just flying VFR you really dont need to know that system inside out.

It seems like they are more concerned about making a few more bucks off of you, then any real safety issue.


If it were me, I'd offer a compromise and say youll take that same CFI on a .5 to show him you know how to change the altimeter, squak, nav/com, direct to and change the screens from dual, volume etc. If you're just VFR that's that really.
 
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Meanee said:
I wouldn't say I mastered it. But I am comfortable with it. Plus, it's for VFR only.
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3 hours isn't near enough. Do the extra time and use it to learn something. If it has a GFC-700 then you really need more than 3 hours. Sure everyone says they won't use it, but everyone does.
 
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Personally, I think that sim time in a G1000 with an instructor is more valuable than in the air. They should have told you, though, that they wouldn't count the sim time, even that with the instructor. As others have said, though, more instructor time is not a bad thing!
 
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