Well, that's gonna leave a mark....

hindsight2020

hindsight2020

Final Approach
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hindsight2020
Ah the joys of hangar rash. Get a call today by the FBO, a day later I just found out. So chucklehead dropped a toolbox from second floor of hangar right onto the right rear portion of my Arrow's wing, oopsie ("Sorry, Robert..$5 dollars doesn't buy my undivided attention") . Punched an 8 inch crater through the top skin, rear spar nicely dented ("the box only had airplane cleaner bottles" they said...LOL), aileron damaged. It might have missed the ribs, but we won't know until my AP peels out the skin and takes a look. Depending on how long it takes to get a replacement rear spar and whether or not the PA-28 has a 2-piece rear spar (it looks like it does, but we're consulting the PA-28 parts manual), it looks like the month of October is down for the count. Happy birthday week to me.

There goes my 100% mx dispatch record. Everything comes to an end I suppose :D
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Bronze colored pieces on bottom of rear spar are the aileron gap seals. Pictures show the rear spar and top skin with the aileron removed. Let's just say a cardboard box doesn't buckle a rear spar like that :eek:. I will say, THIS is why I prefer to own a PA-28 over a Mooney or Comanche. Lineman buffoonery unfortunately happens, but this at least keeps it from becoming a Smithsonian curator scavenger hunt over a simpleton flying scooter.

She'll fly again, and I don't mind the cosmetics, but the structural components will get fixed correctly. I fly the family on this thing and if there is anything about this entire situation that did affront me, it was the initial insinuation that the spar could be repaired in-place in lieu of replacement cost and labor. That narrative lasted about a second before I put an end to it on the phone. I think my community hangar days are coming to an end.o_O:rolleyes:
 
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Might be easier and cheaper to just get a complete assembly from a bone yard.

Of course, if their insurance is paying...
 
Anymouse said:
Might be easier and cheaper to just get a complete assembly from a bone yard.

Of course, if their insurance is paying...
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How do you know the replacement is going to be a better part than what's on it? new from the factory...... maybe.
 
Will probably still charge you for the hangar rent while your bird is being repaired
 
When repaired, will this be a major repair and how much will that devalue the aircraft?
 
Was it some sort of balcony? You might suggest as part of their penance that they buy a nice roll of chicken wire to put up between the banisters if people are prone to dropping things off of it.
 
Tom-D said:
When repaired, will this be a major repair and how much will that devalue the aircraft?
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I'm not sure the answer to either question. My understanding is that the person/agency making the repair is the one to determine whether a repair or alteration is "major", and act accordingly paperwork wise.

As to the valuation part, the aircraft has prior airframe damage history from 2007 as a result of a botched takeoff attempt that required replacement of flaps, removal, repair and reinstallation of wing and panels, main landing gear (caught in wire fence), and re-wiring of landing gear et al. That's the reason the wing panels you see are not painted. the old owners opted for speed mods (Wingtips and flap/aileron seals, gear lobes, hinge seals, the works) over a paint job back then. I've only been the owner of this aircraft for 3 years. The repairs for the 07 incident were well documented (the guy even kept pictures of the accident, more of a morbid curiosity for me really as a buyer) and are part of the mx portfolio of the aircraft. Like I said I've flown the family almost 300 hours on this thing without issue, day night, IMC and VMC. It's no mooney or Comanche performance wise, but I'm happy with the job it's done for me so far.

I do want to ensure the repair is made well, because I don't tolerate mechanical corner-cutting, not with my greatest life assets on board. I do feel confident that my AP will address and tackle the job responsibly and without undue pressure to minimize labor, as the FBO has verbally vouched to support the repair cost. The dispatch hit and presumed marginal resale value loss is insult enough as it is.


denverpilot said:
Was it some sort of balcony? You might suggest as part of their penance that they buy a nice roll of chicken wire to put up between the banisters if people are prone to dropping things off of it.
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Yep, that's exactly the setup. And I've suggested chicken wire at least for the trusses so the damn pigeons don't crap all over the airplanes. No changes. This one is just more your typical community hangar occupational hazard, where they try to jam in all these airplanes and the second someone needs theirs out, it's all of a sudden blasphemy. I've been a long time tenant with two different airplanes, but ever since they moved me to this secondary hangar, these issues have escalated. This one just happened to be the watershed event and my airplane was the lucky loser of the draw. I'm trying to find non-community accommodations at this point, since this setup has outlasted its welcome and I'm not gonna tolerate an encore presentation of this stupid accident going forward.


It was truly another one of those days where I just wanted to throw my arms up and say eff it to it all downsize my life to eating ramen and going to work. But this too shall pass. So I brushed it off, and went on to my job. Third go solo v solo against my student on a TAC form ride. tac rejoins, perch setups and just general raging around the airspace, inspiring young men and women to become the best future combat aviators this Country has to offer. Hopefully it makes the time go quick until I can go fly the trusty Arrow again. The work airplane will have to do for now..090324-F-5667C-029.JPG 070905-F-9528H-542.JPG
 
That sucks, but it sounds like you're keeping the right attitude.
I used to keep my craft in a community hangar. There must be a law (like Murphy's law) that says the back airplane will be the one that flies next.
 
The insurance company will probably just "total" the airplane. Arrows are a dime a dozen, start looking for a nice one.
 
Well at least you have something to fly for now Thanks for your service. Where are you based out of?
 
Plane might be totaled out. Seriously. Skin damage.... Prolly not. Spar damage. I say yes.
 
Tom-D said:
When repaired, will this be a major repair and how much will that devalue the aircraft?
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come on tom, you know the answer the first part, FAR 43 appendix a part B spells out spars. the second part, good question.

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
come on tom, you know the answer the first part, FAR 43 appendix a part B spells out spars. the second part, good question.

bob
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That's why I brought it up.
 
Sure is a lot of speculation here.

Wings & stabilizer spars, ribs and skins are repaired every day without special magic processes, its a simple sheet metal part in this case. It looks dirt simple to repair to me.

If I was the owner I'd require a Piper engineered repair scheme with an FAA form 8100-9 approval. The shop that does work will sign off the log entry and 337 saying they repaired it per that data. If I had to guess it would cost less than $1k for engineering and approval.

I'd probably want the skin patched instead of replaced, less downtime, less dinking with the wing potentially causing more issues is a win-win in my view.
 
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Anybody on this forum ever hear of Williams Airmotive? They can fix a rainy day.
 
Norman said:
Anybody on this forum ever hear of Williams Airmotive? They can fix a rainy day.
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I think two experienced sheet metal techs could fix that on-wing via a permanent repair on road trip in about two days.

Send in or exchange the aileron.
 
bnt83 said:
I think two experienced sheet metal techs could fix that on-wing via a permanent repair on road trip in about two days.

Send in or exchange the aileron.
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I'll bid it at $500 and a day. Do I hear 50 cents and 10 minutes for a duct tape repair? :)
 
Tom-D said:
I'll bid it at $500 and a day. Do I hear 50 cents and 10 minutes for a duct tape repair? :)
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Derivet the skin common to the spar for access
Cut out the dented area of the spar.
Fabricate a filler to fill in the dented area.
Fabricate a doubler.
Drill, chemically treat and prime bare metal
install the repair
That in a nutshell is most every repair for a damaged formed flange.

Then fix the skin

Now a days most repair drawings require an eddy current or dye penetrant inspection for any cracking beyond the cutout area and any cracking in the fabricated & formed repair parts prior to installing them.
 
Tom-D said:
When repaired, will this be a major repair and how much will that devalue the aircraft?
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If done properly it wouldn't.

Heck, it's actually a selling point, you know how much load as been put on your spar since factory new? After the repair, a lot less.
 
It flies again! 2.5 months down time and shenanigans galore. 0.5 test flight went up and down successfully. Brought the ap along; no way I'm finding out the rivet job was decent without the guy who signed for it on board.

He removed the fuel tank in order to maximize the number of rivets he could do solid ones versus the less desirable alternative. As such, we elected to takeoff on the opposite tank to a high key above the field, then switch tanks and run the rest of the test within gliding distance. Rigging was good and tensions were as well. Fuel was flowing no problem, so we departed to test out the rigging in cruise, exercise the A/P and check on the ol' cruise speed. All good.

The spar from Brazil never made it on time due to a no-kidding a labor dispute down there in customs, so work ground to a halt. A real ****show. So we ordered one from the states. Turns out when the brasil order did come in, they had sent an inner spar segment (We needed an outer), so that would have been a huge source of frustration and more downtime. Second World dynamics, enough said.

The hunt for a hangar now continues. In the mean time I'm just glad to have the damn thing back in the air.

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