Well here goes nothing...career change about to begin

Some spouses like some time off from each other and also appreciate how much ya can be home as a pilot... guess I’m lucky


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Oh I get that. I’m gone a week per month on average, sometimes two. The wife deals with it just fine, but would rather me be here. Just this week, for example, I was in Alberta, Canada and one of the A/C units went out. Wife called me and said “what should I do?”. I had to call a repairman and describe a problem I hadn’t witnessed to get them oriented. Ended up being blown capacitors, but it was $250 that I could have fixed for multiples less money if I were home. Such is life on the road!


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Interesting thread. I am also 35 but i just started my PPL training. Hoping to finish by November. I have been considering taking it to CFI to get hrs for ATP. I am not really that sure what regional work is like so anyone with stories please share them. The two yound CFIs at my school are hoping to get ATP next spring. They mentioned two previous ‘graduates’, one went to DFW, the other Chicago. I dont like this idea of moving to Chicago, do you get much say in location?


35 married with 16.5 yr old son. If i kept with the training then I am thinking 2-3 yrs to ATP and my son would be off to collage.
 
I turn 35 at the end of next month, many would probably say I'm too old, but the way I see it I still have 30 years to do what I love. I'm single with no kids, hell if I can't make it happen who can.

I've looked at regional gouges where they've hired 62 and 63 year olds even though they only have 2 or 3 years to fly. I'd say you're pretty safe at your 'late age'. :D
 
1) Best of luck to you!

2) Just curious, why PSA? They are forcing upgrades as soon as you hit 950 hours part 121, you'll get displaced to ORF, and you might flow to mainline before ever holding a line again (very long reserve times as a captain). There are FO's that have gone to Long Call reserve or bid to fly with check airman so they can get displaced just to keep the hours down and prolong their time off short call reserve. Scheduling manipulates the reserve grid so you can never trade. Also, PSA is getting rid of the SAP...

A lot will change in the next year but definitely keep your options open for regional airlines. PSA has the worst reserve rules out of all the airlines currently.
Do you work for PSA?
 
I've looked at regional gouges where they've hired 62 and 63 year olds even though they only have 2 or 3 years to fly. I'd say you're pretty safe at your 'late age'. :D
I guess flying a regional airliner for 24 months is the new "PPL solo flight" bucket list of old.
 
I guess flying a regional airliner for 24 months is the new "PPL solo flight" bucket list of old.

I'm 62 and if I'd had the hours and the commercial when I started back flying last year I'd have made a run at it already. I guess it definitely would have been a bucket list item for me. If I'd known this hiring boom was coming and it was easy to get hired, I'd have tried to be more consistent with my flying over the years.
 
I keep toying with a similar idea myself and I am 50. I do well with my law practice but flying a desk is boring. I have a good staff and with the hiring of another seasoned paralegal I could step away to instruct full time while keeping things running so I wouldn't take the big income hit however I really don't like the idea of instructing to get from the low 400s to 1500, it's just not for me. If anything, I am thinking of buying a plane and just flying a couple 5 hour round trips a week for a two year span. Would be expensive vs. instructing, but I wouldn't have to hire anyone and scheduling wise it would make a lot more sense for me plus I would enjoy it a lot more as I get to travel to various locations that I deem interesting and would get a lot of cross country flying time in the system.

btw, I'm thinking a Grumman Tiger would be a good candidate for my hour building plane. Reasonable acquisition cost and operating expenses with 2000 TBO.
 
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WOW..no idea this thread would get this many replies and so many supportive lol, this place is worlds better than APC, where I would have 50 responses telling me what an idiot I am and how much being a pilot sucks =P

To those who said its inspiring, that is awesome and perhaps I will try to update this thread (or start a new one) every now and then as I progress. I know it's not going to be easy. The way I see it we only have one shot at this thing called life and while it's cliche, the whole "we rarely regret the things we did only the things we didn't do" when we are on our death bed is 100% true, I know because I have family members who worked at Hospice etc. I figure even if I fall flat on my face, the economy tanks, hiring drys up, they come up single pilot commercial aircraft...the list goes on, at least I will have tried. If I don't go for it then every single time a plane flies overhead I'll wonder "what if". For me, that is ultimately what pushed me out of the boat. The thought of that is far worse than the thought of failing.

Aviation Careers Podcast is amazing! I saw some others have been listening as well, found it about a year ago and have been a faithful listener ever since. I actually wrote in and he talked about my situation too, which is pretty cool. Come to think of it, I need to write back and update him. 100% recommend !

Oh and for those asking, I'll be instructing at Middle River Aviation in Baltimore, MD
https://www.middleriveraviation.com

If you are in the area and want lessons or hell just want to go fly, definitely come see me!

I found this video the other day for those of you unhappy with your career and thought it was brilliant and spot on (esp for those of us aspiring pilots as you'll see at the end ;) )
 
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1) Best of luck to you!

2) Just curious, why PSA? They are forcing upgrades as soon as you hit 950 hours part 121, you'll get displaced to ORF, and you might flow to mainline before ever holding a line again (very long reserve times as a captain). There are FO's that have gone to Long Call reserve or bid to fly with check airman so they can get displaced just to keep the hours down and prolong their time off short call reserve. Scheduling manipulates the reserve grid so you can never trade. Also, PSA is getting rid of the SAP...

A lot will change in the next year but definitely keep your options open for regional airlines. PSA has the worst reserve rules out of all the airlines currently.

Well, I am pretty much committed to going to one of the wholly owned (Piedmont, Envoy, PSA). Envoy really kind of rubbed me the wrong way at an interview for their cadet program, and I just didn't really get the warm fuzzies when I went down there. Piedmont is still an option, but I just like PSAs crew bases a lot better to be honest, and knowing 3 people there who all seem to love it kinda makes me think its the place for me. My mentor has been at PSA for about a year now, he was on reserve for 6 months but he never had any of the issues you described? I guess your milage may vary, but he held a line at about 6 months and has had nothing but great things to say about the company, and he's never steered me wrong so I put a lot of faith into what he says.

Things do change quickly in this career though so I am keeping all of my options open for sure. When I initially started training my goal was to go to Skywest and fly for them, but I think staying with wholly owned is the way to go. Not necessarily for the flow agreements, although that is a benefit for sure, but just because I feel like they will be more stable. American is really starting to cut ties with its non wholly owned flying, and it wouldn't surprise me if we don't see more airlines doing that in the future.
 
Good luck to you. This is a great time for aspiring pilots. It will never be easy. Don’t be a jerk because the guy you make mad today will be the one interviewing you tomorrow.
I was married with three sons and we went from instructing job to instructing (mainly small towns) to some charters and then through a high school friend came the opportunity to hire on at a commuter (Metro Airlines that eventually became Eagle). I left there and went to Conoco Oil Flying a G1. I am not a corporate pilot. My wife wasn’t happy nor was I so we borrowed $10K, lost my job and bought a DC9 type rating. This was the early 80’s when no one was hiring. An EXTREME gamble. It paid off but the rest of the story would require so many words that the limit would be exceeded. A short note, I called an interviewer a scum bag during my Midway interview and still was hired...he was a Redskin fan and I am a Cowboy fan. Hired at UPS the first year of their operations and retired early in February. Airline pay is so independent based upon each carrier so the amount per hour is almost meaningless. My dear friend was at UAL and his hourly rate was about the same as mine but I made almost $75000 more year.
Set your goals, don’t be deterred and as Dave Ramsey says....live like no one else so you can live like no one else. The job is tiring, frustrating and the best job in the world. Good luck.

Wow thanks for sharing that, very inspiring as well. I'm kind of waiting for the coming storm to be honest, I'm not sure how much longer this economy can hold on and lord knows there are about 50 other things that could happen that could really bring the industry to an abrupt halt (or a medical issue of my own that could bring my own career to an abrupt halt).There will certainly be tough times ahead but in this day in age, no job really has stability. I know I don't know what airline pilot life is really all about because I haven't lived it yet but I know from my experience thus far, I can't really picture myself doing anything else, so time to take a leap of faith and jump in the deep end!
 
I found this video the other day for those of you unhappy with your career and thought it was brilliant and spot on (esp for those of us aspiring pilots as you'll see at the end ;) )

Hey, that lady stole that plane! And didn't do a preflight! :)

I'm pretty much at Stage 5 - Departure. I'm 95% positive I'm going to give my notice this Friday, take two or three months off, get some professional certifications done that will give me more leverage, and then hit a job search big time after the start of the year. Kind of scary, but sometimes you just have to do the same thing in life as in that video - jump out of the safety of the boat into open waters. (Which gets a little interesting considering I don't know how to swim!)
 
re: wholly owned regionals. For the older ones of us. Note that only American preserves your benefits longevity (not seniority) when you flow from the regional to American. This can make a big difference for retirement benefits etc...


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I've looked at regional gouges where they've hired 62 and 63 year olds even though they only have 2 or 3 years to fly. I'd say you're pretty safe at your 'late age'. :D

A friend of mine was hired at 62. He was offered an upgrade in less than a year, but he declined. He thought it would be of best use of their money to leave him in the right seat since forced retirement was coming up.

He did not intend to go to a regional. He just thought it would be interesting to send a resume and see if they would call at his age.
 
WOW..no idea this thread would get this many replies and so many supportive lol, this place is worlds better than APC, where I would have 50 responses telling me what an idiot I am and how much being a pilot sucks =P

Somebody called? :D

So, a place reaffirming what you want to hear is worlds better to a place where people who haven't been favored in timing the way you think you will, express their reservations in a way that makes you uncomfortable? Is that your definition of 'better'? Ok, just making sure you hear what you're saying.

One of the fundamental truths i've learned as a professional pilot is that, no matter how cool your job looks to a pedestrian, your employer can and will **ck up that two-car funeral. Professional flying, pax ops in particular, is also regimented to the point of not being creative or inspiring. There is no greater purist joy than the flying afforded on your own manner, time and dime. If part 91 didn't exist in my life, I'm not sure I'd want to be a pilot at all.

The giddiness for flying pax turbine equipment is short lived, largely devoid of hand flying in comparison to recreational flight (especially heavy flying, which I admit, BORED me to tears... and it was what finally pushed me into airplane ownership in 2009). Once that heavily standardized style of flying becomes routine, with the exception of some variety in destination (maybe), it simply becomes monotone. At which point paying the bills, taking care of the family and everything else that deals with money and time off becomes a larger and larger share of your preoccupation. This is especially so when the conga line doesn't move as fast as you want it to. Or worse, the conga line stops again due to the economy, and now the condition you're frozen-in-place in is something that you were willing to endure for 18 months; you aren't all of a sudden willing to endure it for 4 years... or 10.

And that's what you're reading on APC, by people who have been iced for longer you've held pilot certificates. You just dismiss it because you find it implausible in this hiring scenario. Because you weren't in the industry in 2002, nor paying attention back then. I'm not a sports guy, but I think the analogy they use is 'fair weather' fan. This place is replete with them, admitted ones too, judging by their posts.

For the record I think you're approaching this in a sensible way, optimism bias notwithstanding. I think you should seek vocational contentment in life to the degree you can. I 100% agree with that; I did as much in leaving my engineering degrees behind for military flying.

I know several APCers who changed careers right around the same time I started in the military, and they're just now getting snagged by majors. That's a lot of years of making below median money, when you amortize for the tenure at the regional employer and their part 91 turbine or piston time building job. There were years, especially 5 or so ago, where they're about ready to quit. Many had working spouses and most were DINKS. So it worked out for them in that they could afford the pay cut, but they readily admit it wouldn't have gone down so well with kids in the picture. The point I'm making with that is that it's not all negative in APC; those guys are happy after being called by mainline. But they'll tell you readily that it was a quiet wait and constant introspection while they were at the regional. And yes, I do know several who couldn't wait anymore and quit. That to me is a big tell, and all it takes is one hiccup in traveler demand, and capacity shedding can wreck your world iced up at the regional, if you don't have a chair already at a 13 day/six figure 121 job. Most guys are not cool getting stuck at the regional, and consider it a non-starter. But it can happen. I love flying as much as the next guy, but I'm not defaulting on my loved ones because of a flying job.

All that said, good luck and tailwinds in your aspirations sir!
 
Interesting. What are the cons of regional flying? Are there any regional pilots that actually like it?
 
Interesting. What are the cons of regional flying? Are there any regional pilots that actually like it?
Generally less stable than a major or legacy. We are at the mainline’s mercy. Flying can be given and taken away. You can make a career out of it when times are good. But when times are bad, they’re really bad.
 
Several comments here about divorce rates. Just celebrated 44 years with my bride who met me when I had a private license in 1974. I was heavily involved in our union (Independent Pilots Association...was unfortunately ALPA twice and Teamsters Airline division twice) and dealt with this issue via my involvement with the Family Awareness Committee. We averaged 10% of the pilot group getting divorced EVERY year...one friend was on number five when I retired. At divorce hearings, there would be a gaggle of wives taking notes and at union meetings discussing what we achieved during talks, the room would be packed with wives and as soon as the contract was ratified the divorce filings would start.

I tried to talk with younger guys and give advice about how to be a good airline pilot husband.

1. Night and international flying is very fatiguing and you have to properly prepare when coming home to get on their schedule and then prepare for the next trip.
2. It is HER home and HER rules. She does just fine without you. Recognize that and don’t try to upset HER routine. Fit in and give her credit. Yea, you can fix things when your home but guess what...your not and if she needs to have something repaired don’t treat her like she is stupid.
3. Treat her as a Queen and an equal and she will fight the devil for you.
4. If you fly with flight attendants....be nice, be PROFESSIONAL and go to YOUR room and call your bride.

An old friend told me of his first trip as an engineer on the 727 at the old Piedmont. Captain turned around and asked him if this was his first trip and he said yes...the Captain then asked how much was his retirement going to be? He replied “I don’t know” and the Captain said “go ask the girls in the back, they KNOW how much you will have”!
 
4. If you fly with flight attendants....be nice, be PROFESSIONAL and go to YOUR room and call your bride.

An old friend told me of his first trip as an engineer on the 727 at the old Piedmont. Captain turned around and asked him if this was his first trip and he said yes...the Captain then asked how much was his retirement going to be? He replied “I don’t know” and the Captain said “go ask the girls in the back, they KNOW how much you will have”!

I imagine this is the reason for most airline pilot divorces.
 
I still think many of the folks on APC are the vocal minority and the airline folks I have talked to in person or on the phone completely agree. Sure, there are those that got screwed and have a reason to be unhappy (to an extent). I’d probably be pretty unhappy if I paid over 100K for my ERAU education and was stuck making 30k a year. Maybe the decision to take on 100K+ in debt for a 30K a year job wasn’t very smart to begin with? Maybe we should think about ways of reducing the potential financial risk? Maybe like...uhh...paying for your training on your own with a degree that provides a possible backup plan?

I’ve posted there a few times and always provided as much background/context as possible. Quite frankly, I’ve always had pretty positive responses, even from some of the notorious negative Nancy’s that reside over there. Am I going to make a career in aviation? Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless of the career, I think everyone should know and understand the potential pros and cons of that career (I’ve certainly learned this with engineering). I do think it is sad that we are selling the aviation career to our youth as some divorce ridden, ramen eating, crap career. Sure, let’s acknowledge the facets (both good and bad), but why is it always the negative that everyone focuses on? I’ve had an “interesting” experience with my engineering career thus far. Do I sell it as a horrible career to the youth who ask me about it? No. I provide a balanced point of view and allow them to decide whether or not it is something they want to pursue.

I’ve realized the vocal minority will make sure they are heard, loud and clear. Unfortunately those who have had a good career are the least likely to post online about it.
 
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I am currently in my 20th year as a professional pilot. I can tell you that my career has not been what I was expecting when I was in new hire training at my first airline job in the fall of 2000. I hit the timing just right for 9/11, retirement age and the recession of ‘08 to have a huge impact on my career.

I tell people looking to get into aviation as a career to plan for the worst, hope for the best and figure that something in the middle is what will most likely happen.

I don’t have any regret in choosing my career. I have had a good ride so far. Some years were a huge **** sandwich others were awesome. It kind of averages out.

Coming into it with a set minimum income near 6 figures or need to be there in a set time frame is a sure way to be disappointed.
 
I am currently in my 20th year as a professional pilot. I can tell you that my career has not been what I was expecting when I was in new hire training at my first airline job in the fall of 2000. I hit the timing just right for 9/11, retirement age and the recession of ‘08 to have a huge impact on my career.

I tell people looking to get into aviation as a career to plan for the worst, hope for the best and figure that something in the middle is what will most likely happen.

I don’t have any regret in choosing my career. I have had a good ride so far. Some years were a huge **** sandwich others were awesome. It kind of averages out.

Coming into it with a set minimum income near 6 figures or need to be there in a set time frame is a sure way to be disappointed.

Very reasonable and respectable advice/info.
 
Some of the grumpier pilots seem to be the ones that have been doing it a long time and maybe haven’t had the pleasure of corporate America. The grass isn’t necessarily greener in the cubicle....

Reasonable expectations and back up plans are pretty important...

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we achieved during talks, the room would be packed with wives and as soon as the contract was ratified the divorce filings would start.

[......snip...]

An old friend told me of his first trip as an engineer on the 727 at the old Piedmont. Captain turned around and asked him if this was his first trip and he said yes...the Captain then asked how much was his retirement going to be? He replied “I don’t know” and the Captain said “go ask the girls in the back, they KNOW how much you will have”!

We see similar [see the underlined] dynamics in the military. I'm glad you brought it up as a retired veteran of the airlines. I say it, and I get tar, feathered and labeled a misogynist. The fact remains that the level of hypergamy in this Country's female population is absolutely abhorrent. American mothers do a disservice to their sons, when they allow their daughters to grow up to view men as pension plans. It's ***ng everywhere. Humanity, I suppose, has yet to evolve to a higher level of consciousness.

As to your overtly subservient tone to the woman of the house, I appreciate the spirit of intent behind what you're trying to accomplish, but I think that can backfire. The only way I'm meekly approaching the steps to MY house, is if I've made an economic agreement with a woman whereby it is understood the only reason she sticks around and doesn't let my kids run naked in the street is because I'm agreeing to subrogate my parental responsibilities to her, and compensate her in time, access to recreational spending money, and my subordinancy at home, in order to get what I want (the freedom to go fly without concern for domestic encumbrances). I find that dynamic dishonest *if* you're not willing to call it a quid pro quo. I'm not saying it isn't a viable way of going about life, I just prefer not to walk on eggshells in my own life and make deals with the hypergamy devil. I know a lot of professional peers who also like to have eye candy wife, batting way above their own sexual market value, and succumb to these unspoken but utterly self-evident dynamics. When the money FF indicator dips for a nanosecond (in this industry no less!) it's surprise city.

I'm more of a fan of transparency on the front end, and let the chips fall where they may. In my experience post-divorce, that tactic had a LOT of women running for the hills. Much more honesty in that displayed behavior, than pinky promises with no legal weight at some altar. It paid off for me in the end. Didn't get the hottest chick in the block, but I got a solid partner who isn't after gaining a material lifestyle higher than what she can attain by her own hands. It isn't the right choice for all, but it was the right choice for me.

All that said, and as someone who got divorced (12 month marriage, effectively should have been annulled, but hey, a Q3 is a Q3....) and now happily remarried with child to said woman who understands the tribulations of my career, I sincerely congratulate you in being a survivor to the statistics that is Marriage in America. I sincerely mean that. No guarantees in life. Tailwinds in your retirement and marriage sir, and many more years of flying to you.
 
Some of the grumpier pilots seem to be the ones that have been doing it a long time and maybe haven’t had the pleasure of corporate America. The grass isn’t necessarily greener in the cubicle....

Reasonable expectations and back up plans are pretty important...

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Indeed, and you touch on the reason why that is, in that post as well. Meaning, I've yet to hear people successfully make a comeback to the cube life they ran away from. Successfully being the operating word. They decay like rudderless ships when forced back to that environment. My point being, it is another way of saying they were not sincere when they uttered the platitude you posted above [my underlined emphasis] in the first place. Which is why I think when it comes to this career, it's probably best to secure the first retirement, before committing to the complete s***show that is the airlines, understanding the opportunity cost that is delaying entry into the seniority list. Of course, the calculus will be different for everybody, but I think that's probably the most balanced approach if people are to be honest and admit no way in hell they'll go back to the cube with a straight face. I know I wasn't intellectually honest when I went through engineering school, so I don't kid myself with fallacious "backup degree" arguments.
 
We see similar [see the underlined] dynamics in the military. I'm glad you brought it up as a retired veteran of the airlines. I say it, and I get tar, feathered and labeled a misogynist. The fact remains that the level of hypergamy in this Country's female population is absolutely abhorrent. American mothers do a disservice to their sons, when they allow their daughters to grow up to view men as pension plans. It's ***ng everywhere. Humanity, I suppose, has yet to evolve to a higher level of consciousness.

As to your overtly subservient tone to the woman of the house, I appreciate the spirit of intent behind what you're trying to accomplish, but I think that can backfire. The only way I'm meekly approaching the steps to MY house, is if I've made an economic agreement with a woman whereby it is understood the only reason she sticks around and doesn't let my kids run naked in the street is because I'm agreeing to subrogate my parental responsibilities to her, and compensate her in time, access to recreational spending money, and my subordinancy at home, in order to get what I want (the freedom to go fly without concern for domestic encumbrances). I find that dynamic dishonest *if* you're not willing to call it a quid pro quo. I'm not saying it isn't a viable way of going about life, I just prefer not to walk on eggshells in my own life and make deals with the hypergamy devil. I know a lot of professional peers who also like to have eye candy wife, batting way above their own sexual market value, and succumb to these unspoken but utterly self-evident dynamics. When the money FF indicator dips for a nanosecond (in this industry no less!) it's surprise city.

I'm more of a fan of transparency on the front end, and let the chips fall where they may. In my experience post-divorce, that tactic had a LOT of women running for the hills. Much more honesty in that displayed behavior, than pinky promises with no legal weight at some altar. It paid off for me in the end. Didn't get the hottest chick in the block, but I got a solid partner who isn't after gaining a material lifestyle higher than what she can attain by her own hands. It isn't the right choice for all, but it was the right choice for me.

All that said, and as someone who got divorced (12 month marriage, effectively should have been annulled, but hey, a Q3 is a Q3....) and now happily remarried with child to said woman who understands the tribulations of my career, I sincerely congratulate you in being a survivor to the statistics that is Marriage in America. I sincerely mean that. No guarantees in life. Tailwinds in your retirement and marriage sir, and many more years of flying to you.

Well said. I completely agree. Choose your spouse wisely.
 
As someone who’s about 30 months out from my first retirement and looking for my second career, my wife and I are having the hardest time seeing past the pretty significant amount of time away from home. I saw an AA FO’s schedule the other day (been there about 18 months) and it’s basically 3-4 days on 3-4 days off (mostly working weekends). I think I read about an average of 16-18 working days per month (effectively away from home the entire time). Sure that’s more time off than many full time jobs, when you’re off, but that’s also a lot of time away from home when you’re on the schedule. For him, if he has kids, forget about spending any time with them unless he home schools them. And if he has to commute too, fuggghedaboutit! I know the pay is great, especially at the majors, but we’re spending a lot of time exploring options that would allow me to continue to fly as a second career, without being gone so much. Not saying I won’t attempt transition to the airlines, just not sold that that’s what’s best for my family yet. Good luck to you though!
 
I have been married 17 years and would find it difficult to transition from seeing her daily to being gone for multiple days at a time on a regular basis. Especially if we had to move from central TX to some place like Chicago.
 
Ive been with my wife for 25. For about 22 of those I’ve been in the military with multiple deployments, both overseas and just out of state, for weeks to months at a time, so we’re initimately familiar with the challenge. However, an airline job is a whole ‘nother level of being gone, lol.
 
Thank you sir. My words were not to suggest subservience on either side but I can see how it can be construed as that. Like I told my son when he said marriage is 50/50 and I said that it was 100/100. It takes a strong and committed couple to survive in any career. My intent was that the wife and mother has to be mother and father while the pilot is in Hawaii and she is shoveling snow and the pilot comes home and starts complaining about why did you do it this way? That isn’t treating her as an equal.



We see similar [see the underlined] dynamics in the military. I'm glad you brought it up as a retired veteran of the airlines. I say it, and I get tar, feathered and labeled a misogynist. The fact remains that the level of hypergamy in this Country's female population is absolutely abhorrent. American mothers do a disservice to their sons, when they allow their daughters to grow up to view men as pension plans. It's ***ng everywhere. Humanity, I suppose, has yet to evolve to a higher level of consciousness.

As to your overtly subservient tone to the woman of the house, I appreciate the spirit of intent behind what you're trying to accomplish, but I think that can backfire. The only way I'm meekly approaching the steps to MY house, is if I've made an economic agreement with a woman whereby it is understood the only reason she sticks around and doesn't let my kids run naked in the street is because I'm agreeing to subrogate my parental responsibilities to her, and compensate her in time, access to recreational spending money, and my subordinancy at home, in order to get what I want (the freedom to go fly without concern for domestic encumbrances). I find that dynamic dishonest *if* you're not willing to call it a quid pro quo. I'm not saying it isn't a viable way of going about life, I just prefer not to walk on eggshells in my own life and make deals with the hypergamy devil. I know a lot of professional peers who also like to have eye candy wife, batting way above their own sexual market value, and succumb to these unspoken but utterly self-evident dynamics. When the money FF indicator dips for a nanosecond (in this industry no less!) it's surprise city.

I'm more of a fan of transparency on the front end, and let the chips fall where they may. In my experience post-divorce, that tactic had a LOT of women running for the hills. Much more honesty in that displayed behavior, than pinky promises with no legal weight at some altar. It paid off for me in the end. Didn't get the hottest chick in the block, but I got a solid partner who isn't after gaining a material lifestyle higher than what she can attain by her own hands. It isn't the right choice for all, but it was the right choice for me.

All that said, and as someone who got divorced (12 month marriage, effectively should have been annulled, but hey, a Q3 is a Q3....) and now happily remarried with child to said woman who understands the tribulations of my career, I sincerely congratulate you in being a survivor to the statistics that is Marriage in America. I sincerely mean that. No guarantees in life. Tailwinds in your retirement and marriage sir, and many more years of flying to you.
 
Skype made live bearable. My wife and would talk several times a day. Pre Skype I was in the hotel in Bombay and my phone rang at 2:30 AM (I was awake)and my wife just wanted to talk, nothing wrong but she just needed to talk. 45 minutes later and $98.50 phone bill we hung up. My F/O the next day was incredulous that it didn’t bother me and I said “can you find a divorce attorney for $98.50/ hour?
I flew a lot with military guys and they were gone longer it seemed. My company had ten, twelve and fourteen day international trips. Domestic were usually 7 on and off but you had to commute and recover for a period of time. It’s not an easy life.
 
I know the pay is great, especially at the majors, but we’re spending a lot of time exploring options that would allow me to continue to fly as a second career, without being gone so much. Not saying I won’t attempt transition to the airlines, just not sold that that’s what’s best for my family yet. Good luck to you though!

It's definitely a tough call. With some seniority you'll have more control over how much you're gone. As another data point, I usually bid to work three day trips, once per week. So it's usually something like three on, four off. I don't work weekends unless I choose to. Depending on how the days fall on the month, it's about 12 days of work with 8 overnights. Once my fiancee gets her schedule, I'll usually pick up a turn (a single day trip - just an out and back) or two for a little extra money. I only pick up the turns that'll fit within the footprint of her work - usually something that leaves at 7am and has me back by 4pm. So when the dust settles (and accounting for three weeks of vacation and my 9 month recurrent training) I generally average about 14 days of work and 8 overnights per month for the year. I'm a little more senior than your buddy - I have about five years here.

As you noted, there are a number of flying options that won't take you away from home as much - you just have to weigh those against the financial advantages of a major airline gig.
 
Of course, the calculus will be different for everybody, but I think that's probably the most balanced approach if people are to be honest and admit no way in hell they'll go back to the cube with a straight face.

I lived in a cube farm for a few years before I went off to do this pilot stuff, and you're right - I doubt I'd go back unless *all* of my flying options were exhausted. And why is that? It's because I enjoy the work - really enjoy it. Is it routine? Absolutely. But just like you've called me out for having my opinion skewed by being a DINK (rightly so), the same goes for you when you tell people the job is boring, or isn't creative or inspiring - you're coming at it from the POV of a guy that flies f***ing fighters for a living.

Airline flying won't replace the enjoyment of buzzing around in a GA airplane, and it won't scratch the intellectual itch of someone that was originally of the mind to go into engineering or some other STEM career - but it doesn't have to. What it does is give me the time off and cash flow to satisfy those desires independently. And even when I'm strapped into my work airplane, I'm still having a good time.
 
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As someone who’s about 30 months out from my first retirement and looking for my second career, my wife and I are having the hardest time seeing past the pretty significant amount of time away from home.

If you are only looking at a calendar, it looks this way.

If you look at it on the personal level, it makes a lot more sense...especially when you factor in that as seniority accrues, schedules improve.

For comparison purposes, I finished a 20-year military career and went to the airlines. On the calendar, I had a lot more time "home" while in the Air Force than I do now at the airlines. However, if you look at the quality of the time I spent at home it paints a very different picture.

Most of those days I was home, I left for work in the morning before my kids went to school (gotta love the 0600 mass brief days!) and many times got home in that period between dinner and bedtime (gotta take care of that Shop Chief or ADO job after the debrief....). By the time the kids were down there was maybe a little time to spend with my wife before I was off to bed myself or headed off to study for whatever I was doing at work the next day. So, I never really spent any time with my kids and my wife on those days anyway.

At the airlines, when I am home, I am *home*. I wake up with the kids, make their breakfast, and either see them off to school or drive them there myself. When the kids are gone, I get to go out to lunch or go do whatever with my wife during the day -- fun or chores, whatever the day dictates. If she is busy doing her work, then I'm working on my hobbies....I go shooting, or GA flying, or work on the car, or whatever I please. Then, in the afternoon, I get to go drive and get the kids myself, go to sports practice and watch, take them to go get ice cream, hang out with them at the pool, you name it. Bottom line here, I actually get to spend time with the family on these days...and by the time there's "personal time" with my wife in the evenings I'm not tired or preoccupied with whatever tomorrow brings, because it is just another family day.

And none of this even factors in the extracurricular weekends I had to occasionally work with the military, or those pesky occasional 6-month long deployments that peppered the schedule...none of which is a factor at the airlines.

I spend a lot more actual time being a father and a husband and enjoying the company of my family as an airline pilot than I ever did in my previous occupation. It is one of the best benefits to the job, IMO.
 
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It takes the right spouse also. When my dad started at NWA he was gone M-F. Now that he has over 20 years at Delta, he bids reserve and only ends up working about 5 days a month. My mom basically raised us by herself. My dad never missed a birthday, holiday or sporting event even though he was gone a lot. My girlfriend is a flight attendant at my airline and our schedules have been fine. When we’re gone on trips, it’s a nice break. We call/FaceTime each other multiple times a day and it works out just fine. We practically go on vacation every month too!
 
Ohhhh can I get a hallelujah and an amen?!?!? Lol
 
As someone who’s about 30 months out from my first retirement and looking for my second career, my wife and I are having the hardest time seeing past the pretty significant amount of time away from home. I saw an AA FO’s schedule the other day (been there about 18 months) and it’s basically 3-4 days on 3-4 days off (mostly working weekends). I think I read about an average of 16-18 working days per month (effectively away from home the entire time). Sure that’s more time off than many full time jobs, when you’re off, but that’s also a lot of time away from home when you’re on the schedule. For him, if he has kids, forget about spending any time with them unless he home schools them. And if he has to commute too, fuggghedaboutit! I know the pay is great, especially at the majors, but we’re spending a lot of time exploring options that would allow me to continue to fly as a second career, without being gone so much. Not saying I won’t attempt transition to the airlines, just not sold that that’s what’s best for my family yet. Good luck to you though!

Well you could always fly PC12s with James. ;) Won’t make $300K with the majors but you’ll be home every night and fly a fraction of the airline guys. Even get to stay single pilot...don’t know if that’s a factor or not.
 
Well you could always fly PC12s with James. ;)
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