Weird Tire Pressure Monitor Fault

[Sac Arrow]

For the third time in about a month I had this weird TPMS fault pop up. "TPMS Failure" on the drive in to work. This is for an older Ford product and it doesn't give a pressure indication, it just gives a common warning if any one of the tires is low on pressure. If one of the tires runs down you get a common "Tire Low Pressure" warning and a ding.

Usually this is caused by a low battery. But normally, if it's a low battery alert, it detects it immediately after you start moving, or within a short time afterwards, and if the battery is marginal, it will typically come back to life after driving a few miles and the tire warms up. But this happened 30 miles in to the commute. I didn't think much about it the first two times, but the third time it happened, I realized it happened at exactly the same place on the freeway. And on the same side of the freeway.

I'm guessing there must have been some sort of electrical device, maybe some sort of radio transmitter device in the area that was interfering with the TPMS receiver. Sound plausible?

 

[bnt83]

For the third time in about a month I had this weird TPMS fault pop up. "TPMS Failure" on the drive in to work. This is for an older Ford product and it doesn't give a pressure indication, it just gives a common warning if any one of the tires is low on pressure. If one of the tires runs down you get a common "Tire Low Pressure" warning and a ding.

Usually this is caused by a low battery. But normally, if it's a low battery alert, it detects it immediately after you start moving, or within a short time afterwards, and if the battery is marginal, it will typically come back to life after driving a few miles and the tire warms up. But this happened 30 miles in to the commute. I didn't think much about it the first two times, but the third time it happened, I realized it happened at exactly the same place on the freeway. And on the same side of the freeway.

I'm guessing there must have been some sort of electrical device, maybe some sort of radio transmitter device in the area that was interfering with the TPMS receiver. Sound plausible?

I bet there is crap tons of radio interference that goes unrecognized, especially in non-critical consumer devices.

I'm not an RF engineer so I could be way off base but the explosion in wireless devices has to have some consequences.

 

[jesse]

For the third time in about a month I had this weird TPMS fault pop up. "TPMS Failure" on the drive in to work. This is for an older Ford product and it doesn't give a pressure indication, it just gives a common warning if any one of the tires is low on pressure. If one of the tires runs down you get a common "Tire Low Pressure" warning and a ding.

Usually this is caused by a low battery. But normally, if it's a low battery alert, it detects it immediately after you start moving, or within a short time afterwards, and if the battery is marginal, it will typically come back to life after driving a few miles and the tire warms up. But this happened 30 miles in to the commute. I didn't think much about it the first two times, but the third time it happened, I realized it happened at exactly the same place on the freeway. And on the same side of the freeway.

I'm guessing there must have been some sort of electrical device, maybe some sort of radio transmitter device in the area that was interfering with the TPMS receiver. Sound plausible?

Might be able to pull codes that would give more detail as to what the failure is. You may just have a sensor that's failing.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Might be able to pull codes that would give more detail as to what the failure is. You may just have a sensor that's failing.

That's possible of course, it's just a very odd coincidence that it happened three times in the same location, after a lengthy drive. It's not a big enough deal to throw the code reader on it right now. It's a little annoying, but not enough to be worth replacing the sensor if it's bad.

 

[jesse]

That's possible of course, it's just a very odd coincidence that it happened three times in the same location, after a lengthy drive. It's not a big enough deal to throw the code reader on it right now. It's a little annoying, but not enough to be worth replacing the sensor if it's bad.

I'd pull the codes out of curiosity and if it's a bad sensor replace/repair with the next set of tires.

 

[jesse]

I bet there is crap tons of radio interference that goes unrecognized, especially in non-critical consumer devices.

I'm not an RF engineer so I could be way off base but the explosion in wireless devices has to have some consequences.

Possible. But I don't think there's been much of a change in UHF utilization in the last 15 years or so. I believe these sort of things operate around 300 Mhz whereas the explosion in wireless devices is 2.4Ghz/5Ghz. Keep in mind I'm mostly talking out of my ass...

 

[docmirror]

I want to warn you in advance, if you take a car with TPMS to an independent tire shop with NO fault showing, and then they check it out, and get a fault, they will try to tell you they can't release the car back to you with the fault on, and will require you either replace the TPMS sensor, the detector, or have a Ford tech come over to their shop and diagnose and it will all be on YOUR dime.

Do not fall for this. Also, be very careful what you agree to in advance. If any tire dealer won't give you your car back, tell them to tow it to the edge of their property immediately upon agreed payment or you are calling the cops to report your car stolen.

A major tire dealer tried this trick on my wife and she almost broke down and agreed to the Ford service charges which were significant. Lucky she called me first, and I told them if the car wasn't off their property, and the keys in her hands by the time I got there, they would be facing car theft, and civil charges for loss of use, and my wife would be taking taxis everywhere until they delivered the car. She got her keys in a minute and was escorted off the tire lot.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I want to warn you in advance, if you take a car with TPMS to an independent tire shop with NO fault showing, and then they check it out, and get a fault, they will try to tell you they can't release the car back to you with the fault on, and will require you either replace the TPMS sensor, the detector, or have a Ford tech come over to their shop and diagnose and it will all be on YOUR dime.

Do not fall for this. Also, be very careful what you agree to in advance. If any tire dealer won't give you your car back, tell them to tow it to the edge of their property immediately upon agreed payment or you are calling the cops to report your car stolen.

A major tire dealer tried this trick on my wife and she almost broke down and agreed to the Ford service charges which were significant. Lucky she called me first, and I told them if the car wasn't off their property, and the keys in her hands by the time I got there, they would be facing car theft, and civil charges for loss of use, and my wife would be taking taxis everywhere until they delivered the car. She got her keys in a minute and was escorted off the tire lot.

Trust me, if they tried that on me, they would regret it.

 

[docmirror]

Trust me, if they tried that on me, they would regret it.

I'm guessing it usually happens to women who often fall prey to car repair scams. I had never heard of this before it happened to her. This was an early Ford TPMS which had a lot of faults when it first came out.

 

[MAKG1]

Trust me, if they tried that on me, they would regret it.

The one time a shop tried that on me, I reminded them of the time they released my Ford truck to me after an alignment with the tie rod adjusters loose. Then, I never went back.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The one time a shop tried that on me, I reminded them of the time they released my Ford truck to me after an alignment with the tie rod adjusters loose. Then, I never went back.

Wow, a side issue but earlier on this year I was walking down the street to lunch, and an approaching car abruptly snapped to the right and crashed in to a parked car right in front of me.

Turns out the car had been in the shop a couple days earlier and they were working on the tie rods. Someone left an adjuster loose and it came off. Ten minutes earlier the guy was on the freeway.

 

[MAKG1]

Well, the steering would have to suck donkeys long before it came off. The toe-out would be unbearable. Ford inverted-Y steering sucks even without that. Nevertheless, it's less than competent.

In my case, I've learned never to blindly trust mechanics, so I inspected the front end shortly after the work, and found it within an hour or two and cranked it down. I also found all the lugnuts overtightened, which is a huge pet peeve. It means the mechanic was too lazy to take 30 seconds and torque all 20 nuts with a clicker torque wrench, using the impact wrench instead.

 

[jesse]

I also found all the lugnuts overtightened, which is a huge pet peeve. It means the mechanic was too lazy to take 30 seconds and torque all 20 nuts with a clicker torque wrench, using the impact wrench instead.

Depends on the rims for me. The cheap steel rims on my F150 -- I just impact the lug nuts back on. I've checked it with a torque wrench before and I'm damn close to the value if I let it just hammer once or twice.

More expensive rims of a softer metal on a car? Torque wrench every time.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Actually not the adjuster, but the ball joint retainer nut. The bolt came out and the wheel snapped to the right.

 

[Mike Smith]

They operate at 315. The battery is almost dead. We have a tool here that I can use to scan each tire and see which one is bad. The old ones were a little sketchy, but the new ones are much better.

 

[Mike Smith]

I want to warn you in advance, if you take a car with TPMS to an independent tire shop with NO fault showing, and then they check it out, and get a fault, they will try to tell you they can't release the car back to you with the fault on, and will require you either replace the TPMS sensor, the detector, or have a Ford tech come over to their shop and diagnose and it will all be on YOUR dime.

Do not fall for this. Also, be very careful what you agree to in advance. If any tire dealer won't give you your car back, tell them to tow it to the edge of their property immediately upon agreed payment or you are calling the cops to report your car stolen.

A major tire dealer tried this trick on my wife and she almost broke down and agreed to the Ford service charges which were significant. Lucky she called me first, and I told them if the car wasn't off their property, and the keys in her hands by the time I got there, they would be facing car theft, and civil charges for loss of use, and my wife would be taking taxis everywhere until they delivered the car. She got her keys in a minute and was escorted off the tire lot.

Cant speak to your state, but here in Alabama that is illegal. I have also never heard of that happening anywhere around here.

 

[docmirror]

Cant speak to your state, but here in Alabama that is illegal. I have also never heard of that happening anywhere around here.

Well, it's a weird thing. The guy was spouting off on some federal law that says they can't return a car to the owner while it has 'safety equipment' disabled, or modified, etc. I really don't know much about it, but in 2006 the feds made some kind of new laws about car safety mandating TPMS, and some other stuff. I didn't want to argue, but the guy gave the car up pretty quick once I pushed it.

 

[Mike Smith]

Well, it's a weird thing. The guy was spouting off on some federal law that says they can't return a car to the owner while it has 'safety equipment' disabled, or modified, etc. I really don't know much about it, but in 2006 the feds made some kind of new laws about car safety mandating TPMS, and some other stuff. I didn't want to argue, but the guy gave the car up pretty quick once I pushed it.

Oh, I hope I didn't give the impression that I didn't believe you, I absolutely do, there are crooks and scumbags out there. I do however believe they are more rare than common. No one under any circumstance may commandeer your vehicle in Alabama. It is sad that because of a sparce few crooks, all of us in the business have to prove our trust over and over. It gets tiresome sometimes. My advice to anyone who has this done to them is call the police. They need to be put out of business.

 

[MAKG1]

Depends on the rims for me. The cheap steel rims on my F150 -- I just impact the lug nuts back on. I've checked it with a torque wrench before and I'm damn close to the value if I let it just hammer once or twice.

More expensive rims of a softer metal on a car? Torque wrench every time.

It's a pet peeve because I have to pull the compressor out of the garage, run the electrical line and air hose, and make a bunch of noise just to inspect the brakes. All it SHOULD take is putting my weight into a breaker bar.

Once (at a different shop), they cranked the nuts down SO hard that I could see shavings on the rear drums. On that one, I insisted they replace all the nuts on their dime and let me run a thread chaser down the studs (personally) before I drove it off. That one had aluminum rims (it was an Exploder), but the seats looked OK, and the balance was fine afterward.

 

[MAKG1]

Actually not the adjuster, but the ball joint retainer nut. The bolt came out and the wheel snapped to the right.

The retainer nut is a backup, unless it has never been tightened. What actually holds it in is the taper getting pressed into the knuckle. And it sounds like the tie rod end nut, not a balljoint nut. A balljoint separating usually drops the wheel on the ground, whereas a tie rod end coming loose will result in loss of control but remaining on all the wheels. If aligned decently, it SHOULD track straight ahead, but lots of things (like potholes) can interfere with that.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The retainer nut is a backup, unless it has never been tightened. What actually holds it in is the taper getting pressed into the knuckle. And it sounds like the tie rod end nut, not a balljoint nut. A balljoint separating usually drops the wheel on the ground, whereas a tie rod end coming loose will result in loss of control but remaining on all the wheels. If aligned decently, it SHOULD track straight ahead, but lots of things (like potholes) can interfere with that.

It didn't drop the wheel to the ground, it severed the connection between the tie rod and the steering knuckle. That's the joint I'm talking about.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

For the third time in about a month I had this weird TPMS fault pop up. "TPMS Failure" on the drive in to work. This is for an older Ford product and it doesn't give a pressure indication, it just gives a common warning if any one of the tires is low on pressure. If one of the tires runs down you get a common "Tire Low Pressure" warning and a ding.

Usually this is caused by a low battery. But normally, if it's a low battery alert, it detects it immediately after you start moving, or within a short time afterwards, and if the battery is marginal, it will typically come back to life after driving a few miles and the tire warms up. But this happened 30 miles in to the commute. I didn't think much about it the first two times, but the third time it happened, I realized it happened at exactly the same place on the freeway. And on the same side of the freeway.

I'm guessing there must have been some sort of electrical device, maybe some sort of radio transmitter device in the area that was interfering with the TPMS receiver. Sound plausible?

Year and Model?