W&B Calcs - software program?

nddons

nddons

Touchdown! Greaser!
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The flight school that I used in NC for my PPL had a program embedded in their scheduling software that you could use to calculate the W&B for many of the specific aircraft in their inventory. It would chart out the envelope, and you could easily see how adjusting your load would graphically change the center of gravity to remain in the envelope.

I know this is a basic skill, but to be honest it is tedious enough that I skip it unless I think I may be close. My current club doesn't have this capability, but is anyone aware of a simple program that can pull this off and chart the W&B envelope? I fly a couple of rental 172SP's, and it would be handy to have, especially when a friend says "can I bring my son too?"
 
It is an integral component to the DUATS free Golden Eagle. I loaded up my plane's envelope parameters and have not done a paper calculation since.
 
Excel works quite well. Most of the airplanes we fly have a fairly simple envelope.

Lemme do one up based on the generic 172S model, and you can change the BEW and Empty CG as needed. I'll either upload it or post a link to it.
 
yea excel would be pretty easy to set up. ive seen nice excel tables in which you put in the weights and it does the dirt simple Weight Arm Moment calculations and plots the resulting CG on a graph which also has the envelope for the aircraft plotted.
 
Here's one I have for our club's C-172N. Change the numbers as you need.
 

Attachments

  • N75898.zip
    3.3 KB · Views: 26
Ghery - how funny - one of the 172N's at the flight school I rent from is N75897!!
 
scatter plot for the CG point.

for the envelope i believe the corner points were entered and then they just had it connect the dots or something.
 
tonycondon said:
scatter plot for the CG point.

for the envelope i believe the corner points were entered and then they just had it connect the dots or something.
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Again, Golden Eagle does this for you and it is free. Jsut set up your CG envelope, which takes all of about 60 seconds.
 

Attachments

  • WB20071113222500.pdf
    28 KB · Views: 20
pencil and paper does it for free too.

Golden Eagle is free??
 
I have CoPilot (for the Palm platform) on my Treo. It includes a complete airport database, fuel and flight planning functionality, and W&B.

It costs a total of zero, although donations are accepted.

Works great!

http://lauriedavis9.tripod.com/copilot/
 
SCCutler said:
I have CoPilot (for the Palm platform) on my Treo. It includes a complete airport database, fuel and flight planning functionality, and W&B.

It costs a total of zero, although donations are accepted.

Works great!

http://lauriedavis9.tripod.com/copilot/
Click to expand...

I was just looking at that one. Unfortunately, it's only free with a $19.95 donation when you download it from Handango or Palmgear. Is the free trial size adequate or does it expire after so much usage?
 
drafttek said:
I was just looking at that one. Unfortunately, it's only free with a $19.95 donation when you download it from Handango or Palmgear. Is the free trial size adequate or does it expire after so much usage?
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The trial is fully functional with no expiration. They also maintain a web site to get updated databases.

No payment is required but is a dang nice gesture for the work done. Twenty bucks is pretty cheap for what ya get.
 
Ok, thanks. I have no problem paying for something I like. I'd just hate to pay for it then find out it won't work in my old Zire 71.
 
drafttek said:
Ok, thanks. I have no problem paying for something I like. I'd just hate to pay for it then find out it won't work in my old Zire 71.
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I'm not sure about the Zire. Does it have Palm OS 3.5 or higher?

If in doubt otherwise, contact the author or maybe Palmgear.
 
KennyFlys said:
The trial is fully functional with no expiration. They also maintain a web site to get updated databases.

No payment is required but is a dang nice gesture for the work done. Twenty bucks is pretty cheap for what ya get.
Click to expand...

Like he says...

... I prefer to donate to Laurie davis via his (yes, it's a he) website.


drafttek said:
Ok, thanks. I have no problem paying for something I like. I'd just hate to pay for it then find out it won't work in my old Zire 71.
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I used to have a Zire 71, and I used CoPilot on it with no problems whatsoever.
 
Ok, it does work on my Zire 71 after I finally got it to sync. You have to jimmy it a bit to get it to connect on the cradle properly. I'll do some fussing with it tomorrow but so far it looks like it's a decent program.
 
drafttek said:
Ok, it does work on my Zire 71 after I finally got it to sync. You have to jimmy it a bit to get it to connect on the cradle properly. I'll do some fussing with it tomorrow but so far it looks like it's a decent program.
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If you think the cradle is flaky, I have one you can have for ... free. My Zire 71 kicked off and has been replaced by a Treo 680.
 
That would be great. I currently have to stick a pencil or something behind it to hold it upright on the cradle so it will connect. I will pay for the shipping though.
 
SCCutler said:
If you think the cradle is flaky, I have one you can have for ... free. My Zire 71 kicked off and has been replaced by a Treo 680.
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Spike,

How's your 680 doing? I had problems with the 650 so I tried the 680. It was even worse.

It's first and only straw was locking up on me when attempting to turn it off between hanging up with TRACON for clearance and needing to depart. I shipped it back the next week.

I love the Treo 650 features but have never had luck with it's reliability. It's hard to part with when the dang thing cost me $500 two years ago. Now, I'm seeing unlocked 680's pretty cheap on eBay.

I don't believe there's a version of Copilot or Logbook Pro for the 700 or 750. :(
 
KennyFlys said:
Spike,

How's your 680 doing? I had problems with the 650 so I tried the 680. It was even worse.

It's first and only straw was locking up on me when attempting to turn it off between hanging up with TRACON for clearance and needing to depart. I shipped it back the next week.

I love the Treo 650 features but have never had luck with it's reliability. It's hard to part with when the dang thing cost me $500 two years ago. Now, I'm seeing unlocked 680's pretty cheap on eBay.

I don't believe there's a version of Copilot or Logbook Pro for the 700 or 750. :(
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Kenny:

It works... OK.

Phone is fine as a phone; the software has a "not ready for prime-time" feel to it, sometimes slow to react and then, it "catches up," with a whole series of ho-yeah-I-meant-to-do-that responses.

I needed something that would sync well with my docket management system, and the Palm OS devices just work better for that.

Biggest problem is occasionally rebooting itself when someone calls and I try to answer. Maybe once a week?

Bluetooth works great.

So it is not perfect, but it works for me.
 
My Treo 650 had the reboot issues shortly after I got it and shortly after I sync'ed it with my desktop Palm, uploading all the apps I had on my previous non-phone Palm. I upgraded the Palm OS to the then-latest and removed all my apps, basically reset to as-shipped. I never had another reboot, but I didn't take the time to reload my apps one at a time and see who the guilty party was.

Ditto on the thumbs-up for CoPilot. A great application, in my opinion.
 
gkainz said:
Ditto on the thumbs-up for CoPilot. A great application, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I Just finished the graph for W&B. The application seems to cover a good bit and is very easy to use. I like the fact that you can update your fuel load and it re-calc's the flight plan to reflect the changes.
 
I could not upload an Excel W&B file. Got a message about it being an invalid file type. I suppose I need to zip it first.
 
KennyFlys said:
A plain Excel file should upload fine. Is the same file still opening fine on your computer?
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Yes, it opens fine for me, and works the W&B and plots the CG for the fuel load at TO and also how it changes as the fuel is used for duration of flight.

Its a .xls file. I get this:

WeightandBalance-400 front.xls:
Invalid File

It gives me a list of file types and max size, none of which are .xls

If you can suggest another way, I will try again. I don't have a zip program.

My excel file is great for a Piper, but would need to be modified for anything else. The W&B part should be easy to adjust, but not sure how to change the plot of the normal and utility CG for fuel load and at landing. It works it for the Piper, but it would need different information to plot it for something else.
 
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Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
It gives me a list of file types and max size, none of which are .xls
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Oh, I hadn't remembered that. Maybe the MC could consider allowing Excel files.

Even so, in XP if you right click on the file then go to "Send to" line you can select "Compressed (Zipped) Folder." You can then upload that file.
 
Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
Yes, it opens fine for me, and works the W&B and plots the CG for the fuel load at TO and also how it changes as the fuel is used for duration of flight.

Its a .xls file. I get this:

WeightandBalance-400 front.xls:
Invalid File

It gives me a list of file types and max size, none of which are .xls

If you can suggest another way, I will try again. I don't have a zip program.

My excel file is great for a Piper, but would need to be modified for anything else. The W&B part should be easy to adjust, but not sure how to change the plot of the normal and utility CG for fuel load and at landing. It works it for the Piper, but it would need different information to plot it for something else.
Click to expand...

I think that worked. Take a look. Thanks.

For my Cherokee I just change the information in the yellow areas for the loading, and the rest just works. When I found this I checked it several ways manually, and it always came out right. We had some work done on the plane that changed the empty weight etc, and those changes were easy to make too. After that, it makes any loading problem simple. I had two heavyweights with my wife and I once, and was able to find just the right passenger placement and fuel load to keep the whole flight in the box. It is also why we now have 58 pounds in the baggage compartment. We usually fly with 2 in the front, perhaps up to 400 total sometimes, and without some baggage weight the CG would be too far forward.
 

Attachments

  • WeightandBalance-400 front.zip
    10.6 KB · Views: 8
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Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
I think that worked. Take a look. Thanks.
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That's pretty cool.

Now, can you write one for the 172N, 172R, 172S, 172RG, 182T, 182RG and the Warrior II? Am I asking for too much? :D

Sometime, I'll have to dig into that and figure out how to modify it for other birds.
 
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