VOR Approach Question

Skid

Skid

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Skid
Looking at the KPIE VOR Rwy 4. When I load this into my GTN650 the point FF04 has a hard altitude of 1700ft. If I were doing the procedure turn or otherwise vectored in that area and established on the final approach course, I should be able to descend to 1000 prior to this point right?
 
No and yes. It’s probably showing that hard 1700 for the outbound / procedure turn. If your doing the procedure turn then no, but if your established in bound then yes.
 
Where is FF04 on the approach? It is not a charted fix on the approach plate. It would seem that this is an internal fix in the GTN for some purpose, maybe establishing a point from which the procedure turn could be started? If that is the case, the first time over FF04 maintaining at or above 1700 until inbound is correct. Whatever it is, it doesn't change how the approach should be flown: 1700 minimum outbound from PIE, then descent to no lower than 1000 when established inbound from the procedure turn. If you can identify JULSO, you can descent to 480 for the straight-in after that fix.
 
chemgeek said:
Where is FF04 on the approach? It is not a charted fix on the approach plate. It would seem that this is an internal fix in the GTN for some purpose, maybe establishing a point from which the procedure turn could be started? If that is the case, the first time over FF04 maintaining at or above 1700 until inbound is correct. Whatever it is, it doesn't change how the approach should be flown: 1700 minimum outbound from PIE, then descent to no lower than 1000 when established inbound from the procedure turn. If you can identify JULSO, you can descent to 480 for the straight-in after that fix.
Click to expand...
FF04 is an intersection according to FF. It’s 6.5 nmi from PIE on the a 219 radial. It’s not on the plate.
 
Skid said:
Looking at the KPIE VOR Rwy 4. When I load this into my GTN650 the point FF04 has a hard altitude of 1700ft. If I were doing the procedure turn or otherwise vectored in that area and established on the final approach course, I should be able to descend to 1000 prior to this point right?
Click to expand...

Looking at the Chart it seems that it's the point where the GTN650 wants to start the turn to the 'Barb' outbound heading of 264. It is not a waypoint. I'm not even sure it is a CNF, Computer Navigation Fix, in the FAA's eyes, but internal to the GTN650 and probably other Garmin Navigators. At any rate, you can leave 1700 for 1000 when established inbound and within 10 NM of PIE(which you better be) even if it is before that FF04 thingy.
 
FF04 is a GPS database derived fix. It's where where the GPS begins an advisory 3 degree glidepath for a stabilized approach.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Yes, since it's primarily a Jepp database convention (the Garmin database includes it too) and not an "official" CNF, Jepp adds it to the their charts while the FAA doesn't.
Click to expand...

These FF##’s are all over the place. Almost always marks the spot where it gives a 3 degree glidepath. There are some where there is a Stepdown Fix after the FAF where it’s not 3 degrees.

EDIT: Disregard reference to FAF, see next post
 
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luvflyin said:
These FF##’s are all over the place. Almost always marks the spot where it gives a 3 degree glidepath. There are some where there is a Stepdown Fix after the FAF where it’s not 3 degrees.
Click to expand...
Jepp materials refer to them as
SENSOR FINAL APPROACH FIX (FF) - Included in database and on charts when no FAF is specified for the approach.​
Basically "Final Fix" with the runway number.
 
There is also a NOTAM on the procedure due to a crane. Straight in to 4 is NA, and JULSO fix minimums are changed for CTL.

!FDC 0/5264 PIE IAP ST PETE-CLEARWATER INTL, ST PETERSBURG-CLEARWATER, FL.
VOR RWY 4, AMDT 1B...
S-4 NA.
JULSO FIX MINIMUMS: S-4 NA. CIRCLING CATS A/B/C MDA 660/HAA 649, CAT D MDA NA. VIS CAT C 1 3/4.
TEMPORARY CRANES 360 MSL BEGINNING 1.60 NM SE OF KPIE (2019-ASO-35075/35076/35077/35078-OE).
2008201844-2104011834EST​

Also the 1700 ft altitude is a minimum altitude and not a hard altitude. It applies to the PT until established inbound on the final approach course.
 
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