Visiting new airports: where to park, how to do day/overnight trip?

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noahf

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noahf
Hi PoA,
I just got back into flying after a 10 year break, and am interested in making day trips (eventually overnight as well) to new places. Somehow in my initial PP training, we never stopped anywhere and parked aside from when I did my checkride at KSTS.

Fast forward to 10 years later and I'd like to actually stop places. The plan is to start with some simple lunch/brunch XCs to gradually build experience and XC time towards a possible/eventual IFR.

So the question is: How do you visit new fields when you plan to stay for lunch, or a half day, or overnight? I've looked on airnav, PoA, and reddit/flying, and the answers seem to be (a) call the airport manager, (b) call an FBO and ask for rates which never seem to be posted online, or (c) look on Google earth and try to get a sense for the layout.

Several of the fields I'm interested in (e.g. O69 Petaluma, or KWVI Watsonville) seem to have large tie-down areas with no aircraft. Can you just park there? Do I need to bring ropes? For fields with restaurants on-field (e.g. O69's 29er diner), is there typically parking close-by/obvious?

Thanks much for any advice. For now, I'm renting, so prefer easy/safe options, and ideally not carrying around ropes. Thx!
 
Can't help you with those specific airports, but you'll find travel and tying down somewhere are pretty easy.

The phone call thing really is the fastest and most accurate way to check on amenities and space, and carrying ropes usually isn't necessary, but they're so light you just toss them in a bag and in the back of the plane anyway... never know when weather might have you landing somewhere you didn't expect and the tie downs all look ragged as hell and not like they'd hold your airplane down, while a storm passes.

Pretty much everything else, is a cake walk, and most anything can be remedied, even a broken airplane, a need for a hotel, and/or a rental car to drive home, with a credit card. Haha.

Heck, even clothes if you can get a ride to the local WalMart.

Sometimes parking is obvious. Sometimes not. Sometimes best seen on an airport diagram. And take one with you so you can find your way around once you get there. Worst case, shut down somewhere sane, walk around looking stupid or go inside and ask. Heh.

The only place I was ever 100% unsure of where to park was at a crop dusting strip in north Texas I had to land at when weather went to crap on me. But nobody was flying and the place was deserted, so it didn't matter anyway. Read a magazine I had in my flight bag for two hours and the weather came up as forecast.

Once you've had to divert and land somewhere completely unfamiliar and unplanned a couple of times, you figure out how to wing it.
 
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Petaluma has chains available. The final hooks are narrow and didn't fit my tail tie-down ring, though. You must might need some rope depending on your aircraft to get everything secured for a long stay. Plenty of transient parking. You can Uber into town or walk on the path to some nearby restaurants. There is a good restaurant right on the field.

At WVI, there is parking near the restaurant. I can't remember if there were ropes there.

At many airports, follow the green taxi line for transient parking.
 
Qotile said:
Petaluma has chains available. The final hooks are narrow and didn't fit my tail tie-down ring, though.
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Heh. You know you're not supposed to put the hook through the ring, right?

You put a link through a link, and poke that through the ring, and the hook goes through that protruding link. :)

A friend did a video if you haven't seen it done. I can dig it up. A lot of people used to ropes haven't got a clue how to deal with chains when they come out west and everywhere has 'em...
 
Hank S said:
If I'm just stopping to eat, I don't bother tieing down.
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Depends on where you are. At SNY the fbo guys will have you tied down almost before you shut down....and for good reason.

GXY has retractable tiedowns built into the ramp...again for good reason.

If I land anywhere in Wyoming the tie-down straps come out...never a question of where or how long. (okay, there are a couple FBOs that I trust to take care of my airplane in WY, everywhere else I tie down)
 
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noahf said:
I just got back into flying after a 10 year break, and am interested in making day trips (eventually overnight as well) to new places. Somehow in my initial PP training, we never stopped anywhere and parked aside from when I did my checkride at KSTS.
Click to expand...

Ran into the same thing with my PPL training. When I asked about traveling I got strange looks from instructors. Seems one was just supposed to have fun flying or working on hours towards flying 121.

noahf said:
Fast forward to 10 years later and I'd like to actually stop places. The plan is to start with some simple lunch/brunch XCs to gradually build experience and XC time towards a possible/eventual IFR.

So the question is: How do you visit new fields when you plan to stay for lunch, or a half day, or overnight? I've looked on airnav, PoA, and reddit/flying, and the answers seem to be (a) call the airport manager, (b) call an FBO and ask for rates which never seem to be posted online, or (c) look on Google earth and try to get a sense for the layout.

Several of the fields I'm interested in (e.g. O69 Petaluma, or KWVI Watsonville) seem to have large tie-down areas with no aircraft. Can you just park there? Do I need to bring ropes? For fields with restaurants on-field (e.g. O69's 29er diner), is there typically parking close-by/obvious?

Thanks much for any advice. For now, I'm renting, so prefer easy/safe options, and ideally not carrying around ropes. Thx!
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Those answers are all good. As Nate said, as you fly more it becomes easier to figure out where you should be. Personally I usually just look at the airport diagram and a satellite view from GoogleMaps. Between the two it's usually pretty obvious, but then I travel this way regularly.

If in doubt, call the FBO. They'll tell you. Sometimes that's, "anywhere in the transient area". Of course, not being based there you probably don't know where the "transient area" is and it's highly unlikely to be marked. :confused:

If you don't get an answer before you go, or have to make an unplanned stop (weather, bathroom break, whatever) you can ask on the radio if there isn't a lineman. Many FBO's have an ASRI frequency, or at small airports you ask on the unicom frequency. If no one answers, just park somewhere that looks good to you. There are often yellow T's painted at many airports, so that's a good place.
 
wayne said:
Ran into the same thing with my PPL training. When I asked about traveling I got strange looks from instructors. Seems one was just supposed to have fun flying or working on hours towards flying 121.



Those answers are all good. As Nate said, as you fly more it becomes easier to figure out where you should be. Personally I usually just look at the airport diagram and a satellite view from GoogleMaps. Between the two it's usually pretty obvious, but then I travel this way regularly.

If in doubt, call the FBO. They'll tell you. Sometimes that's, "anywhere in the transient area". Of course, not being based there you probably don't know where the "transient area" is and it's highly unlikely to be marked. :confused:

If you don't get an answer before you go, or have to make an unplanned stop (weather, bathroom break, whatever) you can ask on the radio if there isn't a lineman. Many FBO's have an ASRI frequency, or at small airports you ask on the unicom frequency. If no one answers, just park somewhere that looks good to you. There are often yellow T's painted at many airports, so that's a good place.
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Often the best place to park initially is beside the fuel pump....you heard it here first...
 
noahf said:
Hi PoA,
I just got back into flying after a 10 year break, and am interested in making day trips (eventually overnight as well) to new places. Somehow in my initial PP training, we never stopped anywhere and parked aside from when I did my checkride at KSTS.

Fast forward to 10 years later and I'd like to actually stop places. The plan is to start with some simple lunch/brunch XCs to gradually build experience and XC time towards a possible/eventual IFR.

So the question is: How do you visit new fields when you plan to stay for lunch, or a half day, or overnight? I've looked on airnav, PoA, and reddit/flying, and the answers seem to be (a) call the airport manager, (b) call an FBO and ask for rates which never seem to be posted online, or (c) look on Google earth and try to get a sense for the layout.

Several of the fields I'm interested in (e.g. O69 Petaluma, or KWVI Watsonville) seem to have large tie-down areas with no aircraft. Can you just park there? Do I need to bring ropes? For fields with restaurants on-field (e.g. O69's 29er diner), is there typically parking close-by/obvious?

Thanks much for any advice. For now, I'm renting, so prefer easy/safe options, and ideally not carrying around ropes. Thx!
Click to expand...

O69 and KWVI both have transient parking right in front of the terminal building, with a modest overnight fee, I think $5. In General, it varies. Transient is not guaranteed, and a random spot shouldn't be used for more than a few minutes. It IS usually marked on pavement, but not easy to see. Signage is rare, but WVI has one. Just one. It's often NOT near self service fuel pumps or tanks locally, though it is at both the airports you asked about.

In some cases, it's charted on the airport diagram. But o69 doesn't have one. Sometimes, it's a big secret (KSAC). Most of the local airports have SOMEthing, except Oakland. But the two FBOs there will usually let you park for free for a few hours if you aren't a nuisance. Overnight is pricey, and don't expect a crew car if you aren't paying.

If there is no transient parking, you have to use an FBO, with whatever fees they want. Sometimes they are reasonable or even free for a few hours (KOAK, especially KSTS at Jet Center). Sometimes not (KMRY, KSJC, especially KSFO).

You can ask Tower or traffic when you get there, but you might not have a good answer, and you'll have to make a fast decision. Which sucks if you just arrived at Monterey and have to pick between two $40 FBOs. Do your homework ahead of time.... and that doesn't help if you show up a Willits and there isn't a soul for miles.
 
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I just throw the lines guys a few sheckles and they sneak me in a hangar. That's the way to travel
 
Most airports in Northern California have chains. I don't carry ropes and chocks, personally.
 
To answer your question...no, there is not usually all the published info you need anywhere regarding transient parking.

I start with the airport website to see if there is transient parking for both day and overnight use. Next step is to look at Airnav.com for FBO info. Next step is to call the airport number and ask what and where the options are...if none available, then call the FBO to check on fees. Search feature in the top right corner also usually has a lot of info on a specific airport and options

Some airport are readily marked for transients, some are not. I WOULD NOT just park in an open space unless you are sure it is OK. I have had transients parking in my paid tie down spot more than once.

I carry a set of tie downs in my plane and have ad to use them only once in the pact three years. Would not worry about schlepping them for a rental.
 
You need to bring ropes. I use climbing rope and a figure 8 knot. I don't like the slip knots. A truckers hitch is also good. As for where to tie down, ask around. If there is no one to ask, just use an empty one. You might be charged for a tie down fee. Frequently waived if you buy fuel. I have been known to tie the rudder pedals to the seat to keep the rudder from flopping around and tie the stick (using the seatbelts) to keep the airlerons from flopping around. Good luck!
 
I always bring rope. The Navion tiedown rings are sufficiently far inboard that even if they have ropes, they often don't reach. Unless I know for sure where I'm going has adequate parking I throw my storm force tiedowns in so I can tie up on a piece of grass if I have to.
 
I take tiedowns in the CAP plane because CAP rules forbid direct connection of chains to airframe -- in rough weather, the unavoidable slack is not good. I don't bother in rentals except for a few remote airports (e.g., Death Valley) where tiedowns are known to be gone.
 
Even when I rent I carry ropes, a tool kit, paper towels and the like. It's all in a Tupperware bin that hopefully goes from trunk to baggage compartment to trunk without being opened.

Something about better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
 
rolivi said:
Even when I rent I carry ropes, a tool kit, paper towels and the like. It's all in a Tupperware bin that hopefully goes from trunk to baggage compartment to trunk without being opened.

Something about better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
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Just make sure you secure it. A little moderate turbulence can make it a lot worse to have it and not need it.
 
MAKG1 said:
Just make sure you secure it. A little moderate turbulence can make it a lot worse to have it and not need it.
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That's what the ropes are for :D I also carry my portable turbulence detector so I'm covered either way.

Actually there's a bungee cord on each handle that gets hooked to the cargo tie loops. Keeps it where it was put.

Good safety tip though.
 
Call the FBO and ask. That way you'll know their situation, transport, crew car, etc.
 
denverpilot said:
Can't help you with those specific airports, but you'll find travel and tying down somewhere are pretty easy.

The phone call thing really is the fastest and most accurate way to check on amenities and space
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You're kidding! Contact them directly? Really? And here I thought asking on POA was the fasted and most accurate way to find out information about a business.
 
MAKG1 said:
I take tiedowns in the CAP plane because CAP rules forbid direct connection of chains to airframe -- in rough weather, the unavoidable slack is not good. I don't bother in rentals except for a few remote airports (e.g., Death Valley) where tiedowns are known to be gone.
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I'll have to go grab some photos of every single CO (and probably WY, UT, AZ, ...) CAP aircraft tied down with chains for you, so you can help stop whichever little moron dictator started that local silliness. LOL. There's three, about four rows away from my hangar. Haha. How dumb. That isn't a CAP rule, that's a local idiot rule.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You're kidding! Contact them directly? Really? And here I thought asking on POA was the fasted and most accurate way to find out information about a business.
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Are you after Accuracy or Precision? RTOT <- Is Read The Other Thread a common abbreviation? Oh wait.. Let me google that for me.
 
denverpilot said:
I'll have to go grab some photos of every single CO (and probably WY, UT, AZ, ...) CAP aircraft tied down with chains for you, so you can help stop whichever little moron dictator started that local silliness. LOL. There's three, about four rows away from my hangar. Haha. How dumb. That isn't a CAP rule, that's a local idiot rule.
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Wrong. It's national. CAPR 66-1 15.3.

That people break the rule routinely is not evidence that the rule doesn't exist.
 
MAKG1 said:
Wrong. It's national. CAPR 66-1 15.3.

That people break the rule routinely is not evidence that the rule doesn't exist.
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c. Tie-Down Chains. Chains shall not be used directly from aircraft mooring points to an anchor point because of excessive impact loads on wing spars. When chain tie-downs are used, they shall be attached to wire rope anchors as depicted in Attachment 3. Wire rope anchors are constructed of two continuous lengths of parallel wire rope passed through the anchor points. The tie-down chains shall be attached to the wire rope with round pin galvanized anchor shackles. This allows the chains to float along the wire rope to reduce impact loads. Chain links used for tie-down must be at least 5/16-inch steel and a proof load of 2,720 pounds and breaking load of 5,440 pounds. All fittings must be equally as strong and chains should be secured without slack.

The reg says nothing about direct connection of chain to the airframe as you claimed it did. Your "wrong" is inappropriate and quite rude in this circumstance.
 
Clark1961 said:
c. Tie-Down Chains. Chains shall not be used directly from aircraft mooring points to an anchor point because of excessive impact loads on wing spars. When chain tie-downs are used, they shall be attached to wire rope anchors as depicted in Attachment 3. Wire rope anchors are constructed of two continuous lengths of parallel wire rope passed through the anchor points. The tie-down chains shall be attached to the wire rope with round pin galvanized anchor shackles. This allows the chains to float along the wire rope to reduce impact loads. Chain links used for tie-down must be at least 5/16-inch steel and a proof load of 2,720 pounds and breaking load of 5,440 pounds. All fittings must be equally as strong and chains should be secured without slack.

The reg says nothing about direct connection of chain to the airframe as you claimed it did. Your "wrong" is inappropriate and quite rude in this circumstance.
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The mooring points are not on the airframe? Huh? Where exactly are they?

They have an exception for a specific type of chain tiedown, that really isn't very common. And that type of tiedown isn't very secure in those few places where it does exist. It's virtually impossible to secure the aircraft without slack in a sliding-chain setup, as that reg also requires.

People break the rules all the time. I've seen a lot of aircraft parked without chocks, which is also a 66-1 violation. That also doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.
 
I’ve always been curious about where to park since Airnav, airport diagrams and Google Earth don’t always identify it, so I’ll often call. I once called a local café located on an airport, asking to clarify the parking situation:


Me: Hello, I’m planning on flying in for lunch, and I notice you have aircraft tie-downs located outside the café. Can you tell me if those are for transient operations?

Lady on Phone: Oh no sir, we have no problem with homeless people here, feel free to park wherever you want.

Me: Uhhh, ok, thanks.


For short day trips I just don’t sweat it anymore. If they fail to properly identify transient parking, any reasonable looking spot is fair game.
 
MAKG1 said:
The mooring points are not on the airframe? Huh? Where exactly are they?

They have an exception for a specific type of chain tiedown, that really isn't very common. And that type of tiedown isn't very secure in those few places where it does exist.

People break the rules all the time. I've seen a lot of aircraft parked without chocks, which is also a 66-1 violation.
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Read it again carefully. A chain has 2 ends. Clearly the reg allows direct connection of the chain to the airframe which is contrary to your claim.
 
Clark1961 said:
Read it again carefully. A chain has 2 ends. Clearly the reg allows direct connection of the chain to the airframe which is contrary to your claim.
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Have you EVER seen ANY permanently installed tiedown where you have any control over where the non-aircraft end is connected?

Jeez, dude. You're really stretching hard here.
 
Why would you land at a airport? Those places are boring
 
MAKG1 said:
Have you EVER seen ANY permanently installed tiedown where you have any control over where the non-aircraft end is connected?

Jeez, dude. You're really stretching hard here.
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So you concede my point that your statement was in fact in error and you have been rude in your responses. Thank you.

And yes, I know how to install chain tie downs correctly to avoid shock loads on the airframe. It isn't that difficult. It isn't really a stretch as you claim, it's more of a removal of all slack.
 
Yup. LOL. And all the chain tie downs around here meet that spec.

No worries, I don't need Nomex to know common sense prevails anyway.

"Hey, we diverted into this airport and they don't have the regulation chains! That thunderstorm will be here soon."

"Better follow the Reg and not tie it down then. Those non-reg chains could do damage to the airplane!"

I'm pretty sure National would be quite pleased if the two zoomies above would break the rule and tie the damned thing down. Just a guess.
 
Clark1961 said:
GXY has retractable tiedowns built into the ramp...again for good reason.
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Speaking of those weird assed seat belt things. Do you see a failure mode I think I do?

- Airplane sitting there attached to those things.
- Gusty horrible winds come along.
- Airplane starts bouncing.
- Ratchet thingy clicks every time airplane rebounds on tires.
- Ratchet thingy busts wing attach point pulling down too hard.

Seems to me like those things could over-tighten themselves.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You're kidding! Contact them directly? Really? And here I thought asking on POA was the fasted and most accurate way to find out information about a business.
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Damn. I gave away the secret.

I was busy working on my mandated study of "wake turbulence" for my CFI ride. We all know that is really just a cover story for chemtrails but once we have the ticket, we sign in blood that we will tell everyone the cover story.

I know you can neither confirm nor deny. I'm just saying it before I have to sign. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Speaking of those weird assed seat belt things. Do you see a failure mode I think I do?

- Airplane sitting there attached to those things.
- Gusty horrible winds come along.
- Airplane starts bouncing.
- Ratchet thingy clicks every time airplane rebounds on tires.
- Ratchet thingy busts wing attach point pulling down too hard.

Seems to me like those things could over-tighten themselves.
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I'm thinkin' that would be a stretch. See what I did there?
 
Thanks everyone for the great replies. Am much less stressed about the idea :)

To summarize for the next person, it sounds like:

Planning:
* Call the airport manager, or FBO, or restaurant if relevant, and ask about transient parking.
* Look on the airport diagram / Google earth to see if there is an obvious choice.
* Don't stress - it sounds like the vast majority of paved airports have tiedowns, somewhere.

Once there:
* Follow the green line, or signs if they exist.
* Ask people -- in person, on unicom, or an FBO's frequency.
* Use an FBO, or possibly start at the gas pumps.

Thanks all!
 
noahf said:
* Follow the green line, or signs if they exist.
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As an aside, I've never seen a green sign nor paint in over two decades of airport wandering. I suspect that's something very local and I know it's something very non-standard.

Standardized airport markings have made it almost everywhere now, and they're the ones in various FAA pubs. No green stuff mentioned in any of those either.
 
denverpilot said:
As an aside, I've never seen a green sign nor paint in over two decades of airport wandering. I suspect that's something very local and I know it's something very non-standard.

Standardized airport markings have made it almost everywhere now, and they're the ones in various FAA pubs. No green stuff mentioned in any of those either.
Click to expand...

Watsonville has a sign, but it's not green.
 
noahf said:
To summarize for the next person, it sounds like:

Planning:
* Call the airport manager, or FBO, or restaurant if relevant, and ask about transient parking.
* Look on the airport diagram / Google earth to see if there is an obvious choice.
* Don't stress - it sounds like the vast majority of paved airports have tiedowns, somewhere.

Once there:
* Follow the green line, or signs if they exist.
* Ask people -- in person, on unicom, or an FBO's frequency.
* Use an FBO, or possibly start at the gas pumps.
Click to expand...

Your summary looks good. In addition, some airports/FBOs are on top of their game and have websites with a page devoted to giving unfamiliar pilots ample info for arrival, refueling, parking, departure, etc. Airnav may or may not have links to them. Of course much of this is moot if it's a towered airport.
 
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