VFR into IMC on /r

VFR pilot tried to fly through gaps in a layer, things went poorly and ended up in icing conditions. It seems like if temperatures were above freezing this would have been nearly a non-issue and not particularly worth discussing.
 
A common mistake for a low time pilot,glad everything worked out .
 
I’m finishing up my instrument training soon. It’s scary how green you are when only VFR rated and only minimal experience with IFR. I wish they spent more time on it during initial training
 
I’m finishing up my instrument training soon. It’s scary how green you are when only VFR rated and only minimal experience with IFR. I wish they spent more time on it during initial training
More time on instrument flight, or more time on avoidance tactics?
 
Good thing they had a good autopilot and knew how to use it. Likely would have had a tragic ending without. Wonder what they were flying?
 
Most VFR pilots can handle under the hood flying, when it happens for real and you have to do something other than look at the instruments like look at a map to try to figure out your position or tune the radio VOR and use that to figure your position things go south fast. Dont believe me go stick your nose into some clouds with hard rain and a lot of bumps for 15 or 20 minutes just make sure you got some altitude under the cloud when you come out of it upside down. Just make sure you don't stray into any airways, people are in their and they don't need you in their way.
 
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Most VFR pilots can handle under the hood flying, when it happens for real and you have to do something other than look at the instruments like look at a map to try to figure out your position or tune the radio VOR and use that to figure your position things go south fast. Dont believe me go stick your nose into some clouds with hard rain and a lot of bumps for 15 or 20 minutes just make sure you got some altitude under the cloud when you come out of it upside down. Just make sure you don't stray into any airway, their are people in their and they don't need you in their way.

i have little time in actuals during my training ... it was real eye opener. i am one of those who performs fairly well under the hood.. well not so much in clouds. even going through BKN layer in a busy terminal environment adhering to ATC instructions and tuning all the gizmos AND keep yourself oriented is a LOT of work
 
i have little time in actuals during my training ... it was real eye opener. i am one of those who performs fairly well under the hood.. well not so much in clouds. even going through BKN layer in a busy terminal environment adhering to ATC instructions and tuning all the gizmos AND keep yourself oriented is a LOT of work
It's (weirdly) the opposite for me: I find the foggles or hood very disconcerting, and what I can still see in my peripheral distracting. Pure IMC (zero viz) helps me concentrate on my scan. I was lucky to have 400+1sm weather on my first IFR flight test in 2003, so I didn't have to wear the stupid thing when I went up with the examiner.
 
It's (weirdly) the opposite for me: I find the foggles or hood very disconcerting, and what I can still see in my peripheral distracting. Pure IMC (zero viz) helps me concentrate on my scan. I was lucky to have 400+1sm weather on my first IFR flight test in 2003, so I didn't have to wear the stupid thing when I went up with the examiner.

i find those times when you are in and out of clouds mostly disorienting. pure IMC is much less distraction, i agree. but again i have only 10 hrs in actuals... so lot to learn. i plan to finish the rest the training in actual if i can
 
i find those times when you are in and out of clouds mostly disorienting. pure IMC is much less distraction, i agree. but again i have only 10 hrs in actuals... so lot to learn. i plan to finish the rest the training in actual if i can
It's also true that when you're in solid IMC continually, it's more likely to be stratoform clouds and smooth air, while when you're in and out of IMC frequently, it's more likely to be cumuloform clouds and bumpy air, making control more of a challenge (lots of exceptions, of course).
 
I'm only beginning my PPL training but have been reading as much info as possible on all things IFR so I can hopefully be more informed when going for my IR. Can anyone attest if having synthetic vision helps with spacial disorientation? Especially if you're stuck in solid IMC for a long time. Does having the iPad to look at help keep your head straight?
 
I'm only beginning my PPL training but have been reading as much info as possible on all things IFR so I can hopefully be more informed when going for my IR. Can anyone attest if having synthetic vision helps with spacial disorientation? Especially if you're stuck in solid IMC for a long time. Does having the iPad to look at help keep your head straight?
I have no experience with using synthetic vision seriously, but I would think you don't want to use your ipad when you are VFR into IMC if it is at all avoidable. Your first source of information should be the plane's instruments or primary flight display. If your attitude indicator is functioning, it becomes your windshield. Looking down at an ipad on your lap is just going to confuse you further since you aren't looking in the direction you are moving. Also, every time you pick your head up to look at something else, you will shake up your ears and induce further disorientation (part of instruments training is learning to turn your head slowly whenever visibility is restricted). If you have the ipad on the yoke or otherwise right in front of you, that's not as bad, but you should still rely on the plane unless you are having problems with airplane instruments (such as no vacuum). If you are using backup AHRS on the ipad with synthetic vision, you'll need to calibrate it either before the flight (which you'd have to remember to do even though you were planning on a VFR flight) or while in flight (added difficulty during an emergency). I am not a fan of the plan, but the ipad is still a valid piece of emergency backup gear if you have a STRATUS 3 or other backup AHRS device.
 
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I’ve had VFR traffic called while I was in solid IMC before. All atc could tell me is they aren’t talking to them and be squawk. More than once in fact, and that’s too many.
 
I’ve had VFR traffic called while I was in solid IMC before. All atc could tell me is they aren’t talking to them and be squawk. More than once in fact, and that’s too many.
It's sometimes possible for you to be in solid IMC and the nearby VFR traffic in VMC.
 
I'm only beginning my PPL training but have been reading as much info as possible on all things IFR so I can hopefully be more informed when going for my IR. Can anyone attest if having synthetic vision helps with spacial disorientation? Especially if you're stuck in solid IMC for a long time. Does having the iPad to look at help keep your head straight?

Personally I don’t find SVT any help for IMC. I leave it on for IFR training but I used to work with a guy who always turned it off for IFR training. He found the terrain in the background a distraction from the AI function. Having flown IFR with steam and glass, I do prefer glass. Don’t find glass completely necessary though since it’s really all about instrument scan, interpretation and flight control.

When it all comes down to it, it’s really about resisting the semicircular canal (vestibular) illusion and hunkering down and flying instruments. Some can resist the distraction and others have failed in that regard and paid the price. Until one gets totally spatially disoriented and have to work thru that problem, they won’t really know if they’re up to the task.
 
I'm only beginning my PPL training but have been reading as much info as possible on all things IFR so I can hopefully be more informed when going for my IR. Can anyone attest if having synthetic vision helps with spacial disorientation? Especially if you're stuck in solid IMC for a long time. Does having the iPad to look at help keep your head straight?

No, the only thing that helps with spatial orientation is being well trained. Stay out of clouds, don't take risks like this guy did, his plan sounded reasonable but was not. There is more to flying in clouds than being able to maintain the dirty side down with an instructor at your side. There are a lot of other things to do beside focus on keeping the airplane level. These other things distract and cause problems for pilots who are not IFR rated, and even for IFR rated pilots if they don't stay proficient.

Continue your training, focus on getting the PPL, it's not easy for most and will take lots of focus and commitment. Make sure your instructor takes you into deltas and charlies if they are close enough, once you are ready of course. Have him show you how to use flight following then you insist that you call on most flights, while with the instructor, until you get comfortable. These are the best things I can think of to get ready for the instrument rating. But don't get discouraged if you have a tough time working on your private, it will come, don't quit! I hope you succeed!
 
More time on instrument flight, or more time on avoidance tactics?

Both. Students need a better understanding of weather planning. And they really need to understand just how quickly you can kill yourself becoming disoriented in IMC
 
Their was a post on 3 minutes to live, hard to believe how many non instrument rated pilots did not believe how quickly you can kill yourself becoming disoriented in IMC. 3 minutes might be a little low but even the most seasoned IFR pilot under hard IMC have been known to become disoriented, a new PPL with 3 hours of instrument training not good odds.
 
Their was a post on 3 minutes to live, hard to believe how many non instrument rated pilots did not believe how quickly you can kill yourself becoming disoriented in IMC. 3 minutes might be a little low but even the most seasoned IFR pilot under hard IMC have been known to become disoriented, a new PPL with 3 hours of instrument training not good odds.
Once you are trained and IFR current, it's worth noting that there's a big difference between fixed gear and retractable planes. Slicks will get into a spiral very fast, while on (most?) fixed-gear planes, the gear acts as a partial speed brake past the yellow arc and makes the plane somewhat spiral-resistant without active pilot input (e.g. pulling up and tightening the spiral, which you might still do if you're disoriented).

When the ASI did their famous study on vacuum failures in 2001, 100% of the fixed-gear (Archer) pilots were able to continue to an instrument approach and safe landing, even though they were less experienced, much slower to recognise the vacuum failure, and sloppier handling their planes. 25% of the (much-more-experienced) Bonanza pilots were deemed to have lost control, and had to have the aircraft controls taken away from them, even though they were fast to recognise the vacuum failure. The retractable gear made for a totally-different handling:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...vacuum-pump-failures-in-instrument-conditions

It's also very hard to find reports of fatal accidents from loss of control after a vacuum failure in fixed-gear planes when the pilot was instrument-rated, current, and flying IFR. There are lots of reports of fatal accidents from loss of control after a vacuum failure in retractable planes.
 
Their was a post on 3 minutes to live, hard to believe how many non instrument rated pilots did not believe how quickly you can kill yourself becoming disoriented in IMC. 3 minutes might be a little low but even the most seasoned IFR pilot under hard IMC have been known to become disoriented, a new PPL with 3 hours of instrument training not good odds.
it would be interesting to see how things would’ve turned out if AOPA/ASF hadn’t abandoned the results of that study instead of focusing on scare tactics based on the “before” portion. I think the technique taught there is much less perishable, and therefore would do more to reduce loss of control in IMC, than the current method of pretending that you can be an instrument pilot in three easy lessons.
 
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