VFR in the mountains - Part II

Salty said:
Why would I declare an emergency when I'm not yet in an emergency? This makes no sense.

I was still VFR, within a few miles of an airport reporting VFR, with more than 1/2 hour of fuel left. It was not an emergency yet.

This thread is to discuss how to proceed if I wouldn't have been able to complete the flight as I did. In which case, as I've already said many times, I would have declared an emergency.
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There are two types of emergency: distress (mayday) and urgency (pan-pan). For the latter, you only have to be "concerned" about safety, i.e., a "potential" distress condition, in the words of the FAA.
 
Palmpilot said:
There are two types of emergency: distress (mayday) and urgency (pan-pan). For the latter, you only have to be "concerned" about safety, i.e., a "potential" distress condition, in the words of the FAA.
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Perhaps the the question is more about the unfortunately rampant fear of the nonexistent dire consequences of declaring than the level of concern.

I'm running short of fuel and I need to be able to land here, now, even if I need to go through the clouds while equipped only for VFR. Why would I declare an emergency about that? If I do, the FAA might come after me! No no no!!! Not gonna do it! Better wait until I actually run out of fuel. ​

No, I am not saying that's @Salty's mindset, but it is one I have heard often.
 
I'm on Salty's side, except I don't agree with Salty on all points if that makes any sense. To me, this is really simple and everyone is making a big deal about it.

I'm not an IFR pilot, but I'm very familiar with the terrain of WV. With minor exceptions, the only roads with straight stretches longer than about a half mile are the north-south interstate, I79, and the old WV turnpike that's now I77. There's not a lot of straight or flat in WV.

So...you're stuck above a solid layer that was predicted to not exist, welcome to kinda Northeast weather. You don't have enough gas to fly to flat happy Virginia or PA. You're absolutely sure you can follow an IFR clearance and break out at 3k feet AGL or whatever. So you setup to do that, and TELL ATC that's what you're going to do. That's an emergency. ATC are great people, but they're going to follow the rules. What you need to do is get down and stay alive. Best chances of doing that in that state is to find an airport and fly a published approach if you don't have the terrain memorized.

I really think this is a good question to ask...because as private pilots we should have a plan A and B, that are all happy and don't require an emergency, but if you're stuck, admit it, tell them what you're going to do, and to it. Oh, last bit of trivia? Unless things have changed a LOT since I was there, not a whole lot of low level IFR traffic in WV. Panhandles and Charleston area excepted. My bet would be that ATC's concern would be you flying into a mountain as WAY more likely than hitting any other aircraft.

If the same scenario played out here in the NE, and I were anywhere close to Albany, that's where I'd go, because I know wide areas in the Hudson River valley that are flat. I admit being stuck, I tell ATC I'm VFR and stuck, and going to descend though the clouds straight, then ask for whatever help you need after I get to VFR weather. Will I get yelled at? Maybe. Will I fly into a mountain, run out of fuel, or hit another aircraft? Nope. All that said I don't do VFR above a cloud ceiling because I'm a big baby when it comes to risk, so I look to get down and land before things close up if that happens. But it doesn't mean I won't get caught sometime.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Could you get down through that hole above the airport, except for the clearance requirements? If so, I'd declare and dive through that sucker. Or maybe just dive through it.

If not, I would declare, describe my situation, and ask them what they can do to help me get down. I realize that's not helpful, but that's 100% what I would do.

I've considered buying an Aera 760 for this scenario, since you can load and fly approaches. Not IFR legal, but in an emergency who cares?

I've also wondered if I would have the guts to do an intentional spin through the clouds as a maneuver of last resort. Would have to be 100% sure there was at least 1000-1500 ceiling below the deck though.
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I heard from one of my instructors, about one of his students doing this to get through the marine layer over half moon bay to land.

Why intentionally spin (requiring spin recovery) rather than a constant bank descent using the hsi?
 
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SFDukie said:
I heard from one of my instructors, about one of his students doing this to get through the marine layer over half moon bay to land.

Why intentionally spin (requiring spin recovery) rather than a constant bank descent using the hsi?
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I've since rethought it, and agree a level wing descent is probably smarter.
 
To be fair, you’re probably much more proficient and confident in spin recovery in your citabria than most pilots.
As a renter, I get the “our insurance doesn’t allow” intentional spins from instructors I’ve asked.
Want to get some acro training, but of course that will likely be in aircraft types I don’t fly.
 
SFDukie said:
To be fair, you’re probably much more proficient and confident in spin recovery in your citabria than most pilots.
As a renter, I get the “our insurance doesn’t allow” intentional spins from instructors I’ve asked.
Want to get some acro training, but of course that will likely be in aircraft types I don’t fly.
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If you are ever in FL, I'll take you spinning.
 
SFDukie said:
I heard from one of my instructors, about one of his students doing this to get through the marine layer over half moon bay to land.

Why intentionally spin (requiring spin recovery) rather than a constant bank descent using the hsi?
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If you have working gyro instruments, definitely use them. The spin method is for planes that don’t have an AI, DG, TC, or the like.
 
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