VFR flight following question

Velocity173 said:
It is and it's a pet peeve of mine! Also can't stand it when people begin their transmission with "aaand." :rolleyes:
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Then you'll be in a real bad mood if you ever fly in the Houston area. :)

EDIT ^ Mood. Real bad mood is what I meant.
 
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MadseasoN said:
Then you'll be in a real bad if you ever fly in the Houston area. :)
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aaaand where I fly too. I don't much like it either, but I do it sometimes without even thinking. It does work, though, if you're making a call right after another airplane, methinks.
 
rottydaddy said:
no headings, either. I'd consider that a request, and they might have to say "please". :D
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I've heard that in Class E, and been grateful for it.

"Skyhawk 123XX Oakland Center traffic 6 o'clock Skylane altitude reads 8500 recommend heading 320"

Since I was at 8500 as well and trying to climb at high density altitude in a 172 with a much more powerful aircraft I can't see gaining on me, that's really important.

No "please" required. Many thanks given; he clearly had my "six."
 
MAKG1 said:
I've heard that in Class E, and been grateful for it.

"Skyhawk 123XX Oakland Center traffic 6 o'clock Skylane altitude reads 8500 recommend heading 320"

Since I was at 8500 as well and trying to climb at high density altitude in a 172 with a much more powerful aircraft I can't see gaining on me, that's really important.

No "please" required. Many thanks given; he clearly had my "six."
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I was joking about the "please" thing, and obviously this is a case where a recommendation is welcome, since initially you only had a relative bearing on the other traffic, not its heading, and you couldn't see it. The controller knew better than you which way you should turn, and shared that information. Nothing out of line there, especially since the controller wisely used "recommend".
 
MAKG1 said:
I've heard that in Class E, and been grateful for it.

"Skyhawk 123XX Oakland Center traffic 6 o'clock Skylane altitude reads 8500 recommend heading 320"

Since I was at 8500 as well and trying to climb at high density altitude in a 172 with a much more powerful aircraft I can't see gaining on me, that's really important.
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"Skylane" suggests the controller is talking to that traffic, else how would he know the type aircraft? But "altitude reads 8500" suggests he's not talking to it, if he was talking to it the altitude would be confirmed.
 
He also gave a recommendation to the Skylane right after me. He was in contact. I suspect I was told first so I didn't turn into the direction he recommended to the Skylane. The Skylane did not have me in sight for whatever reason (weather was severe clear -- maybe he was staring out the side windows at the stunning view of Lake Tahoe directly below).

I must say it impressed my wife immensely (and me as well!). Now, she knows why I always want to be talking to ATC.
 
MassPilot said:
My reply would be "Roger", but whenever I get that call it is almost always concluded with an altimeter setting and I just read back the altimeter setting.
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I am new, but every time I have asked for Flight Following, it's been Boston Radar, and yea, they always read back the altimeter setting. I do the same thing, read it back and say thanks.

I assume this is a common practice? I get why they do it (so we are all on the same page with relative altitude), but being you are the only one that has said this, and we fly in the same area, I thought I would ask.
 
When I get FF from PVD Approach or Boston Center I always read back the altimeter setting as confirmation.

A few times, I've heard PVD Approach ask someone to verify altimeter setting when they didn't read it back, so it's nice to just follow up with it for clarity.
 
Mafoo said:
I am new, but every time I have asked for Flight Following, it's been Boston Radar, and yea, they always read back the altimeter setting. I do the same thing, read it back and say thanks.

I assume this is a common practice? I get why they do it (so we are all on the same page with relative altitude), but being you are the only one that has said this, and we fly in the same area, I thought I would ask.
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Boston APP, Boston Center, Cape APP, Bradley APP, and PVD APP all do this. Boston Center usually gives the altimeter setting of the nearest weather station to you, while all the TRACON's give you their local altimeter setting. I have a vague recollection of Boston APP neglecting to give an altimeter setting during a dual X-C, but I was shaky on the radio at the time and I may be remembering wrong.

They also generally give you an altimeter setting when you check in at a new facility. The exception is when you're close to your destination. When PVD hands me off to Cape on my way to MVY, they don't bother giving me Cape altimeter since I should already have the ATIS by that point.
 
numl0ck said:
A few times, I've heard PVD Approach ask someone to verify altimeter setting when they didn't read it back, so it's nice to just follow up with it for clarity.
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Interesting. I've never heard that happen where I fly.
 
Altimeter settings are typical. What surprised me last night was climbing out on an instrument clearance when I made contact with SEA APP they asked if I had the current ATIS from OLM. Given that I had just launched from there and had told the tower that I had it ("O" sticks in my mind this morning) that took me by surprise. No biggie, I just confirmed that I had it and continued on my way.

BTW, it was a beautiful evening for an IPC.
 
I realize we are supposed to be short and succinct on the radio, and other than those of us with pet peeves(count me in) at the end of the day, other than some other pilots thinking I am just a wahoo, have I harmed anyone if I said "looking for traffic", no joy(which I do not use), told the controller to have a nice day(which drove my DPE and CFII nutzoid), or said something that is not exactly according to regs or standard. I understand there are mandatory replies to some of the ATC instructions, eg. reading back clearances, but a lot of what happens on the radio at least in my part of the woods is often not that formal. I cannot believe the extra tenth of a second it takes for such things really matters, and as long as the communications lines remain open and the information is accurately sent and received does it really matter.

Just asking.

Doug
 
There are some instances where I could see frequency congestion being an issue.

Passing through KSFO Class B at low altitude while tandem landings are underway results in a lot of radio traffic from the two conga lines getting cleared for landing, with takeoffs on the crossing runways crammed in between. You can barely get a word in edgewise, so you don't waste time on anything.

On the other hand, I've been flying over the Sierra foothills with traffic so light I had to ask NorCal if they were still there. No problem with modest pleasantries there.
 
MAKG1 said:
On the other hand, I've been flying over the Sierra foothills with traffic so light I had to ask NorCal if they were still there. No problem with modest pleasantries there.
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Or last night when we'd have to remind SEA APP that they hadn't switched us to the tower and the tower was calling us when we were finally told to go to the tower. They were busy, but not that busy.
 
douglas393 said:
I realize we are supposed to be short and succinct on the radio, and other than those of us with pet peeves(count me in) at the end of the day, other than some other pilots thinking I am just a wahoo, have I harmed anyone if I said "looking for traffic", no joy(which I do not use), told the controller to have a nice day(which drove my DPE and CFII nutzoid), or said something that is not exactly according to regs or standard. I understand there are mandatory replies to some of the ATC instructions, eg. reading back clearances, but a lot of what happens on the radio at least in my part of the woods is often not that formal. I cannot believe the extra tenth of a second it takes for such things really matters, and as long as the communications lines remain open and the information is accurately sent and received does it really matter.

Just asking.

Doug
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There are no mandatory replies. AIM 4-2-1(b), in part: "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." There are mandatory reports, such as the one you cite, but the phraseology is up to you.

There is, of course, recommended phraseology. The AIM and AC 90-42(F) are your guides.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
 
Ghery said:
Or last night when we'd have to remind SEA APP that they hadn't switched us to the tower and the tower was calling us when we were finally told to go to the tower. They were busy, but not that busy.
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I just key the mike and say "Going to the tower" and wait for an acknowledgment before switching.

Bob Gardner
 
douglas393 said:
I realize we are supposed to be short and succinct on the radio, and other than those of us with pet peeves(count me in) at the end of the day, other than some other pilots thinking I am just a wahoo, have I harmed anyone if I said "looking for traffic", no joy(which I do not use), told the controller to have a nice day(which drove my DPE and CFII nutzoid), or said something that is not exactly according to regs or standard. I understand there are mandatory replies to some of the ATC instructions, eg. reading back clearances, but a lot of what happens on the radio at least in my part of the woods is often not that formal. I cannot believe the extra tenth of a second it takes for such things really matters, and as long as the communications lines remain open and the information is accurately sent and received does it really matter.

Just asking.

Doug
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Depending on the facility the only readback for an ATC clearance (on the ground) would be altitude.

Back in 90's I worked ATC at MCAS Miramar. There was a time when the F-18 guys were getting tired of CD making them read back the entire clearance. One day our ATC Facility Officer came storming in to radar and asked "What part of an ATC clearance is required to be read back?" I was going to say not a thing but I forgot we had a facility letter saying they will read back at the very minimum the altitude assignment. He made it clear to us to only ensure the altitude is read back.

Steven can chime in but I think a lot of ATC facilities today just require altitude read back in a clearance?
 
I usually say "position checks out" if comms aren't too busy. If they are, I'll just respond with my tail number.
 
Velocity173 said:
Steven can chime in but I think a lot of ATC facilities today just require altitude read back in a clearance?
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No facility specific read backs at GRB. Nationally, a read back of hold short instructions is required, taxiing and LAHSO. When I was at ZAU, IIRC, there was a Great Lakes Region order requiring a read back of all routes, altitudes, and headings.
 
AIM 4-4-7b recommends reading back altitude assignments, vectors, and runway assignments.
 
roncachamp said:
No facility specific read backs at GRB. Nationally, a read back of hold short instructions is required, taxiing and LAHSO. When I was at ZAU, IIRC, there was a Great Lakes Region order requiring a read back of all routes, altitudes, and headings.
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I'm talking about just an IFR clearance on the ground. Do you guys require any part of that to be read back?
 
MAKG1 said:
He also gave a recommendation to the Skylane right after me. He was in contact. I suspect I was told first so I didn't turn into the direction he recommended to the Skylane. The Skylane did not have me in sight for whatever reason (weather was severe clear -- maybe he was staring out the side windows at the stunning view of Lake Tahoe directly below).

I must say it impressed my wife immensely (and me as well!). Now, she knows why I always want to be talking to ATC.
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It is amazing the number of times I have seen traffic on TAS or been told of traffic by ATC and could not find it even though I knew pretty much where it was. If a plane is more than about 4 miles from me I can never find it. I fly quite often with a CFI(I) and we seem to see planes pretty close to the same time. For me it is somewhat harder in severe clear to find other traffic. When I do find the other traffic it is typically exactly where I thought it should be and was just not "noticed" on my prior scan.

All I know is traffic has a pesky way of hiding in plane view. The only thing that does it better are birds.


Doug
 
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