VFR Flight Following after 2020

Well they claim that they'll save money by shutting down traditional primary and SSR but I can't see that happening. There are no requirements for ADS-B in E below 10K so that's a huge chunk of airspace where approach and centers will have to cover for VFR and IFR that aren't equipped for ADS-B.

Also, there are approach facilities (Class D) that don't have the ADS-B requirement in their area so you'd at least be able to get FF from them.
 
Transponders will still be around so that will probably work same as it does today.
 
I'm looking forward to the services that I get from ADS-B. I know very well the expense involved in adoption, but it's not like we don't get anything out of it.
 
darthnomster said:
I'm looking forward to the services that I get from ADS-B. I know very well the expense involved in adoption, but it's not like we don't get anything out of it.
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agreed. it's necessary.
 
bflynn said:
why is it necessary? What drives the necessity?
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traffic awareness for one.
for two it's the center piece of nexgen and opens up a whole lot of other services in the future.
 
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bflynn said:
why is it necessary? What drives the necessity?
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Children of the magenta line unable to look out the window while they play with whatever gadget is the flavor of the day.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Children of the magenta line unable to look out the window while they play with whatever gadget is the flavor of the day.
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Riiiiiight.

Because see and avoid always works. :rolleyes2:

If you can't afford the three grand that's fine, but you don't need to make up excuses as to why the system is a bad idea because you don't want to spend a few dollars.

I guess ignorance really is bliss when it comes to traffic.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Children of the magenta line unable to look out the window while they play with whatever gadget is the flavor of the day.
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Silly comment. I suppose you have a beef with those pesky children of the radials, as well, right? They can't keep their eyes outside of the cockpit because they're too busy twisting that silly knob.
 
ahkahn said:
Silly comment. I suppose you have a beef with those pesky children of the radials, as well, right? They can't keep their eyes outside of the cockpit because they're too busy twisting that silly knob.
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I think it's more of "my wallet is more important than improving the system for all"
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Children of the magenta line unable to look out the window while they play with whatever gadget is the flavor of the day.
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Boom

System has been working just fine for quite a while.

I call out traffic, one guy puts his eyes on his panel, other guy puts his eyes out the window.
 
darthnomster said:
I'm looking forward to the services that I get from ADS-B. I know very well the expense involved in adoption, but it's not like we don't get anything out of it.
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The biggest thing YOU will get from ADS-B is a bill for every flight....

They guv says it won't happen, but don't believe it....

For instance....
Ya want a 100 dollar burger...

You leave from a public airport = 10.00 bucks.
You want FF = 10.00 bucks
You want to shoot an approach = 20.00 bucks
You want to land at a public airport = 10.00 bucks

Reverse for the flight home...

Now that 100 burger is 200 dollars..

With ADS-B, they know EXACTLY who you are.
They know EXACTLY where you live.
They know your mailing address.


Pay up sucker..... Or they lien your house/plane/ bank account.. ETC ETC..
 
N801BH said:
The biggest thing YOU will get from ADS-B is a bill for every flight....

They guv says it won't happen, but don't believe it....

For instance....
Ya want a 100 dollar burger...

You leave from a public airport = 10.00 bucks.
You want FF = 10.00 bucks
You want to shoot an approach = 20.00 bucks
You want to land at a public airport = 10.00 bucks

Reverse for the flight home...

Now that 100 burger is 200 dollars..

With ADS-B, they know EXACTLY who you are.
They know EXACTLY where you live.
They know your mailing address.


Pay up sucker..... Or they lien your house/plane/ bank account.. ETC ETC..
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And they don't now?!?!
 
petrolero said:
No, they don't (necessarily) now unless you talk to someone. But I'd guess everyone with an electrical system talks to someone and even many without.
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This entire discussion was based on flight following so yeah it is about talking to someone.
 
You guys who can fly along, maintaining your course & altitude, monitoring your engine/airplane systems, and navigating, then be able to reliably spot one light aircraft closing with yours at a combined speed of well over 200kts impress the heck out of me.

I have a hard enough time spotting them when ATC is telling me exactly where to look until we get within about 1-2 miles of each other. I really think the only reason we're not having midairs all the time is the simple fact that the sky is really big, airplanes are really small, and the odds that 2 airplanes will be trying to occupy the same space at the same time are really small.
 
You guys can get all the satellite tv you want in your planez me and my nylon flying friends will still be in the sky and not on any channel.
 
cowman said:
I really think the only reason we're not having midairs all the time is the simple fact that the sky is really big, airplanes are really small, and the odds that 2 airplanes will be trying to occupy the same space at the same time are really small.
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I watch the radar. This is fact.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Meh. Same old argument. Trust in yourself or TV.
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Yep, it's either or, you nailed it!
God forbid we embrace technology to improve the system.
You're just so much better than that :rolleyes2:
 
PeeGee said:
Yep, it's either or, you nailed it!
God forbid we embrace technology to improve the system.
You're just so much better than that :rolleyes2:
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Mountains, hanggliders, hot air balloons and birds all need ezpass transponders right? Dumbfarts still fly into the ground despite all the fancy pixels. Always will. TV won't save you, open your eyes or die.
 
My fear with ADSB is that it will create a false sense of security. If my understanding is correct there will be a lot of airspace where it isn't required and a lot of planes that aren't equipped. So just because they aren't on the screen doesn't mean they aren't there. With that being the case I don't see what it gets us. I don't want to have to pay to upgrade for it but if it was required for everyone at least it would be useful.
 
PeeGee said:
Riiiiiight.

Because see and avoid always works. :rolleyes2:

If you can't afford the three grand that's fine, but you don't need to make up excuses as to why the system is a bad idea because you don't want to spend a few dollars.

I guess ignorance really is bliss when it comes to traffic.
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I have TCAS in what I fly these days, we spend as little time as possible in bug smasher territory. The little time we spend down there, the amount of stupidity I see/hear is amazing.

But it's ok, trust your TV, I'll still be using my Mk1 eyeball when I do fly down low.
 
Maybe I am naive but I think it is a vast over generalization that anyone who believes in technology has no sense of basic pilotage/see and avoid.
 
Cykoguy said:
Maybe I am naive but I think it is a vast over generalization that anyone who believes in technology has no sense of basic pilotage/see and avoid.
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It is naive. Go outside and watch the phone zombies walk into things.
 
Strange thread. I "see and avoid" at all times and have since I was a student pilot. However, having a system in the plane that reports nearby traffic has opened my eyes to the fact that there is a lot more out there than I see with my eyes.

I have perfect vision and it can still take a while to find the plane that is being reported by ATC or the traffic advisory system, despite knowing the altitude and direction where it is.

Long story short - if you rely only on the eyeball you literally have no idea what you're missing.
 
Good grief. Sweeping generalisations are rarely accurate, on either side of an argument.
 
dBrad said:
Good grief. Sweeping generalisations are rarely accurate, on either side of an argument.
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Everyone knows if you have a glass cockpit or any gadget in your plane, it is impossible to use your eyes and look outside.

We also know how much safer aviation was before all these gadgets.

Also, spotting airplanes with your eyeballs is the only -- and best -- way to see them and works flawlessly every time.
 
Sarcasm noted. Put on a clown suit and walk through a coffee shop, no one with a screen will see you. Same goes for pilots flying inside the TV.
 
petrolero said:
No, they don't (necessarily) now unless you talk to someone. But I'd guess everyone with an electrical system talks to someone and even many without.
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You guess about everyone would be wrong.

The reasons given are exactly why I won't be playing ADS-B. Look at toll roads right now. They know where you are, and who you are and where you live, and if you don't pay the bill, when it reaches high enough your car is liened.
 
jasstech said:
My fear with ADSB is that it will create a false sense of security. If my understanding is correct there will be a lot of airspace where it isn't required and a lot of planes that aren't equipped. So just because they aren't on the screen doesn't mean they aren't there. With that being the case I don't see what it gets us. I don't want to have to pay to upgrade for it but if it was required for everyone at least it would be useful.
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Yup. Here's going to be the big divide. Those with ADS-B and those with nothing. If I can't go in a class B or C, I guess I'll just take my txp out and save the weight. Now I"m an unconfirmed primary target(where there is radar), and where there is no radar, I'm nothing.

Have fun with your new digital toy finding me cruising along in my 1320Lb LSA at the same VFR alt as you'all.

Has anyone answered the OPs question? Cuz I sure don't know, and the feds don't seem to either.
 
We just got ADS-B and so far, it's damn great! There is TONS of traffic that goes unseen.

Those with Mode C transponders still appear on the screen via rebroadcast. Above 10k, it should be that very near 100% of traffic appears on the screen. (Ok, sure there are exceptions, but very very few)

I'll still be looking outside, but as mentioned, that is hardly foolproof either.
 
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