VFR above FL 180 Yes?...No?...Maybe?

[Ted]

You're describing VFR over-the-top. VFR-on-top, aka IFR over-the-top, is an IFR operation.

No, composite flight plans are for flights where one portion of the flight is under VFR and another portion is under IFR. VFR-on-top is an IFR operation all the way, but while assigned VFR-on-top the pilot operates at appropriate VFR altitudes, maintains VFR conditions, and is responsible for all separation from other aircraft.

Ok, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[chucky]

Well, you didn't really cross an ADIZ, but your flight did originate with it. I still agree that it appears 99.11 still applies, but what I am trying to figure out is why the island of Hawaii is within the ADIZ, and the inner boundary isn't explanded to include the big island.

I guess the correct way to say it is you cross an ADIZ boundary, which means that 99.11 applies unless one of the exceptions listed in that part apply.

It's a DoD aircraft. :wink2:

Well, at least you made me look up part 99. Now I know what's there.

 

[roncachamp]

Well, at least you made me look up part 99. Now I know what's there.

And you made me examine the route. I was only interested in the Class A airspace issue, I didn't bother to check if SUA or ADIZ were issues.

 

[EdFred]

I still wonder why the big island is in an ADIZ.

 

[JeffDG]

I still wonder why the big island is in an ADIZ.

Hmmm...as I read 99.11...wouldn't any flight on the Big Island require an IFR or DVFR flightplan?

(a) No person may operate an aircraft into, within, or from a departure point within an ADIZ, unless the person files, activates, and closes a flight plan with the appropriate aeronautical facility

So, if I wanted to do pattern work at PHTO, I'd need to file a DVFR flight plan?

 

[EdFred]

Hmmm...as I read 99.11...wouldn't any flight on the Big Island require an IFR or DVFR flightplan?


So, if I wanted to do pattern work at PHTO, I'd need to file a DVFR flight plan?

If you read from the beginning...

§ 99.1 Applicability.

(a) This subpart prescribes rules for operating all aircraft (except for Department of Defense and law enforcement aircraft) in a defense area, or into, within, or out of the United States through an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) designated in subpart B.
(b) Except for §§99.7, 99.13, and 99.15 this subpart does not apply to the operation of any aircraft-
(1) Within the 48 contiguous States and the District of Columbia, or within the State of Alaska, on a flight which remains within 10 nautical miles of the point of departure;
(2) Operating at true airspeed of less than 180 knots in the Hawaii ADIZ or over any island, or within 12 nautical miles of the coastline of any island, in the Hawaii ADIZ;

 

[JeffDG]

If you read from the beginning...

§ 99.1 Applicability.

(a) This subpart prescribes rules for operating all aircraft (except for Department of Defense and law enforcement aircraft) in a defense area, or into, within, or out of the United States through an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) designated in subpart B.
(b) Except for §§99.7, 99.13, and 99.15 this subpart does not apply to the operation of any aircraft-
(1) Within the 48 contiguous States and the District of Columbia, or within the State of Alaska, on a flight which remains within 10 nautical miles of the point of departure;
(2) Operating at true airspeed of less than 180 knots in the Hawaii ADIZ or over any island, or within 12 nautical miles of the coastline of any island, in the Hawaii ADIZ;

Details, details...If Congresscritters can't be expected to read the laws they pass, I can't be expected to read an entire regulation!

 

[EdFred]

It's ok, I don't recall really looking at part 99 at all prior to yesterday. I probably did, I just don't recall doing so. Then again, I am not near any ADIZ'z.

 

[JeffDG]

It's ok, I don't recall really looking at part 99 at all prior to yesterday. I probably did, I just don't recall doing so. Then again, I am not near any ADIZ'z.

Thanks to NORAD that's true, otherwise you'd be fairly close!

 

[flyersfan31]

Yeah, this is what I get for having flights where it rarely would make sense to do anything other than a strictly IFR or VFR flight.

Ted, flying out west is a different beast than in the east.

You don't get yelled at for picking up a clearance in the air.
VFR-on-top is routine.
You actually do get asked to report at certain points.
Class G airspace is actually relevant.

and so on....

It's almost like visiting a foreign country for those of us who fly all our IFR predominantly in the Northeast.:wink2:

 

[Doggtyred]

Well, you didn't really cross an ADIZ, but your flight did originate with it. I still agree that it appears 99.11 still applies, but what I am trying to figure out is why the island of Hawaii is within the ADIZ, and the inner boundary isn't explanded to include the big island.

Because Wheeler AAF, Hickam AFB, Pearl Harbor Naval Base, Schofield Barracks and Kaneohe Marine Corp Base are located on Oahu, not the big island. Nuclear Weapons being stored at Naval Magazine Pearl Harbor in Lualualei might have some bearing too.

 

[EdFred]

Because Wheeler AAF, Hickam AFB, Pearl Harbor Naval Base, Schofield Barracks and Kaneohe Marine Corp Base are located on Oahu, not the big island. Nuclear Weapons being stored at Naval Magazine Pearl Harbor in Lualualei might have some bearing too.

No, my question is, why doesn't the Hawaii ADIZ look more like this:
(bolder lines show changes)

 

[roncachamp]

Because Wheeler AAF, Hickam AFB, Pearl Harbor Naval Base, Schofield Barracks and Kaneohe Marine Corp Base are located on Oahu, not the big island. Nuclear Weapons being stored at Naval Magazine Pearl Harbor in Lualualei might have some bearing too.

The largest US military installation in the Pacific, Pohakuloa Training Area, is on the big island.

 

[Jaybird180]

I was reading the AIM the other day and had the same question the OP had. I was going to post but instead thought I'd search for it....surely someone has encountered the same "inconsistency"? I'm glad I used the search because, not only did I find this thread which answered my question, it also provided more information and answered questions I didn't know I had. In addition, I found threads that were non-relevant to the question but also helped to fill my bucket of aviation knowledge.

I am SO thankful to be on PoA. I love you guys. Group Hug?

 

[dtuuri]

I was reading the AIM the other day and had the same question the OP had. I was going to post but instead thought I'd search for it....surely someone has encountered the same "inconsistency"? I'm glad I used the search because, not only did I find this thread which answered my question, it also provided more information and answered questions I didn't know I had. In addition, I found threads that were non-relevant to the question but also helped to fill my bucket of aviation knowledge.

I am SO thankful to be on PoA. I love you guys. Group Hug?

I didn't have time to read all the posts, but in case it wasn't mentioned a loss of two-way radio communications above FL180 in VFR conditions would mandate use of those flight levels.

dtuuri

 

[BillTIZ]

"Chicago Center, NASA1234, we need an IFR clearance to descend into Class A"

"Excuse me, don't you mean climb into Class A NASA1234"

"Negative Chicago Center, that was descend into Class A"

Been there done that. I was working the high altitude sector over New England one day when an unexpected call sign called. I thought he had a wrong frequency and asked his location. "Over Boston, heading NW request landing at PSM." "Roger, say your squawk code" it was an SR71 coming down hill, it took him all of NH and VT to get turned around for the IAF over CON for the penetration into PSM.