Vets hand salute?

gkainz

gkainz

Final Approach
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A couple of years ago, vets were authorized http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1609 to render a hand salute during the National Anthem. Anyone else find it uncomfortable to render a hand salute uncovered, and not in uniform? I guess the Navy protocol of saluting only while covered trumps what is newly acceptable between the arguments in my head :)
 
I am not a vet. I have spent my entire life around active and retired servicemen. I think it would be weird to see anyone saluting while not in uniform. I wonder what was the basis of the rule change. Perhaps not to deny the honor to those retired who can no longer fit into or find their uniforms?
 
First, I was not aware of that change, and probably most of the public isn't, either, which makes it seem a bit odd to me for folks in civilian clothes to be saluting. Second, uncovered bothered me for a while when I made the transition from USN to USAF, but I got past that.
 
I feel just as patriotic rendering the "hand over heart" salute. The one thing I miss not being in uniform is being able to salute some of the kids who come back from serving - whether in person or in a coffin.
 
TMetzinger said:
I feel just as patriotic rendering the "hand over heart" salute. The one thing I miss not being in uniform is being able to salute some of the kids who come back from serving - whether in person or in a coffin.
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Amen to that.
 
When I was in, I was taught that out of uniform servicemembers and veterans were to stand at attention when the national anthem is played. That's what I do.
 
I was never in the military, but I have family who are or were. On the one hand, like others have said, I feel that standing at attention or putting your hand to your heart is just a different manner of showing respect. In the other hand, I like this because it will allow those who have served or are serving, but not in uniform, to be recognized.

Think of it as a privilege.
 
I recently attended a friends funeral that was given full military honors. I am, and was, aware of the change, yet I felt uncomfortable rendering a hand salute in civilian attire. I did the hand over heart thing.

John
 
I'm with the no salute uncovered crowd. Frankly, saluting when you are not in the military gets a little weird for me. I think that the "showing you're a patriot" thing has gotten a little out of hand. Respect is one thing, trying too hard to show you are a vet/patriot/vet loving patriot is another. I think that respectfully standing with your hand over your heart is sufficient to prove you are an American.
 
Maxmosbey said:
I'm with the no salute uncovered crowd. Frankly, saluting when you are not in the military gets a little weird for me. I think that the "showing you're a patriot" thing has gotten a little out of hand. Respect is one thing, trying too hard to show you are a vet/patriot/vet loving patriot is another. I think that respectfully standing with your hand over your heart is sufficient to prove you are an American.
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Well said -- thank you.
 
John Baker said:
I recently attended a friends funeral that was given full military honors. I am, and was, aware of the change, yet I felt uncomfortable rendering a hand salute in civilian attire. I did the hand over heart thing.
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In a similar situation recently (not full honors), I had no problem at all rendering a hand salute. In fact, it was kind of special, seeing the handful of other veterans doing the same -- it gave me a sense of belonging and comradeship with the departed and the other vets giving our late brother the final sign of our respect. Perhaps it is that for my generation, in which service was so scorned, those of us who did serve feel special, and want to express that feeling.
 
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I don't do it when in civilian clothes either.

My step-father is a retired O-6 and he likes the change. I'm not sure what I'll feel like when I'm that old, but I figure those who want to will, and the rest of us will stick with the hand on the heart.
 
I figure I gained the right to perform the hand salute when I took the oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Until I am excused from that oath, I have no trouble continuing to perform the hand salute.

I don't see it as an uber-patriot thing.

Author Joel Rosenberg had the best description: "A salute is not a bow. A bow is a gesture from a subordinate to a superior. A salute is a greeting between practitioners of the profession of arms, one that is initiated by the junior, and returned by the senior."

Personally, though, I do strike my cover prior to performing the hand salute. Personnel in uniform retain their cover *because* it is a part of the uniform.

The weird thing for me is what to do when I'm in a historical costume...specifically, my USN War of 1812 Captain's uniform.
capt1.jpg

Proper salute *for the era* would be to lift the hat above the head. Yet...it's neither 1812, nor am I really a Captain in the US Navy.
 
If it makes you feel good, do it.:thumbsup: I'm not going to tell anyone that they shouldn't. Who needs authorization to salute anyway? What is going to happen if someone salutes without authorization? Is the salute police going to arrest them? This kind of stuff is silly. If someone wants to salute, they sure have my blessings.
 
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Maxmosbey said:
I'm with the no salute uncovered crowd. Frankly, saluting when you are not in the military gets a little weird for me. I think that the "showing you're a patriot" thing has gotten a little out of hand. Respect is one thing, trying too hard to show you are a vet/patriot/vet loving patriot is another. I think that respectfully standing with your hand over your heart is sufficient to prove you are an American.
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Ditto.

I also do not understand why when we offer an oath of our life to defend the US Constitution we render it no salute of any kind when we see it? Seems we like to forget that is thing we are protecting and the flag is just a symbol.
 
If I was fresh out of the Corps, then I'd say no. I've been out for 13 years now and I don't care so much for rules and regulations.

I say, if you've served your country, it's your right to show respect in whatever way you damn well feel like. Even if it's a middle finger!
 
Capt.Crash'n'Burn said:
If I was fresh out of the Corps, then I'd say no. I've been out for 13 years now and I don't care so much for rules and regulations.

I say, if you've served your country, it's your right to show respect in whatever way you damn well feel like. Even if it's a middle finger!
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How do you feel about the church group demonstrating at military funerals ?

keep it civil, I'm already POed by watching the Sea Chicken game
 
Tom-D said:
How do you feel about the church group demonstrating at military funerals ?

keep it civil, I'm already POed by watching the Sea Chicken game
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I think that a funeral is a private affair, and a completely inappropriate place for anything other than solemn respect.
 
There was a time prior to WWII, when Americans proudly rendered the Nazi style salute, arm extended, palm out, when the flag passed, or the national anthem was played.

John
 
John Baker said:
There was a time prior to WWII, when Americans proudly rendered the Nazi style salute, arm extended, palm out, when the flag passed, or the national anthem was played.

John
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... and a swastika was painted in the spinner of the Spirit of St Louis, but events have charged the symbols with new meaning.
 
John Baker said:
There was a time prior to WWII, when Americans proudly rendered the Nazi style salute, arm extended, palm out, when the flag passed, or the national anthem was played.

John
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Yes, but that didn't last too long. Even before Germany declared war on America, the government was suspicious of the American Nazi movement and started arresting its leadership.
 
dmccormack said:
... and a swastika was painted in the spinner of the Spirit of St Louis, but events have charged the symbols with new meaning.
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Was it a Swastika, or a broken cross?? the swastika is bent clockwise where the broken cross is bent counter-clockwise.

EDIT: I found a pic of it at wikipedia. It's NOT a swastika, it's a broken cross, since it's bent counter-clockwise.

Spirit_of_St._Louis_Nose_Cone_1.jpg
 
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I heard about this a while ago. As a vet, I see no problem with those vets that chose to salute the flag or a fallen comrade. I personally stand at attention and cover my heart during the National Anthem or when the Flag proceeds by. I'm just more comfortable with it due to all the years that it was the acceptable standard.

The last time I rendered a salute uncovered was last fall ( I was wearing a company uniform but didn't have my hat). We had flown a fallen Marine home to CLT. Five or six TSA personnel and I formed an honor guard while he was being transfered from the hold to the hearse. The TSA folks were in uniform and had hands over their hearts. They said they try to form a guard whenever they get word of service member remains inbound. They earned my respect for that.
 
Tom-D said:
How do you feel about the church group demonstrating at military funerals ?

keep it civil, I'm already POed by watching the Sea Chicken game
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TMetzinger said:
I think that a funeral is a private affair, and a completely inappropriate place for anything other than solemn respect.
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Amen to that.

dmccormack said:
... and a swastika was painted in the spinner of the Spirit of St Louis, but events have charged the symbols with new meaning.
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It also has significance to other religions. The attached picture is from Taiwan.
 

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The swastika was a good luck symbol. it was also used by Finland . It was long in use in eastern culture. the Nazi's have just polluted the image of the swastika in our minds. too bad, since it was not a symbol, but an ideology that was evil. Dave
 
Ghery said:
It also has significance to other religions. The attached picture is from Taiwan.
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Note that the presented symbol isn't a swastika, the arms are bent in the opposite direction. I believe this is common throughout asia but I'm certainly not expert.
 
I have no idea if it has anything to do with the spinner on Lindbergh's plane or not, but he was a Nazi Sympathizer leading up to WWII. He changed his mind just as we entered into the war because of the evidence of atrocities committed by the Nazis, but he had been an active enough spokesman here in the US, that he was not allowed to re-enlist for the war because of it.
 
Maxmosbey said:
I have no idea if it has anything to do with the spinner on Lindbergh's plane or not, but he was a Nazi Sympathizer leading up to WWII. He changed his mind just as we entered into the war because of the evidence of atrocities committed by the Nazis, but he had been an active enough spokesman here in the US, that he was not allowed to re-enlist for the war because of it.
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Lindbergh inherited many of his political leanings from his very -- umm, interesting -- father. He apparently shared many of the popular "scientific" conclusions of Darwinism of the time (eugenics, species improvement, etc).

He was also intrigued by German's advances in Aeronautics, and reported back his findings to the American government each time.

Linbergh was as much a "sympathizer" of Nazi Germany as many, many leftists were "sympathizers" of the Soviet Union from the 1950s through the 1980s.

I think "intentionally uncritical" or "willing dupe" may also be appropriate terms.
 
Capt.Crash'n'Burn said:
Was it a Swastika, or a broken cross?? the swastika is bent clockwise where the broken cross is bent counter-clockwise.
EDIT: I found a pic of it at wikipedia. It's NOT a swastika, it's a broken cross, since it's bent counter-clockwise.
Click to expand...

Oh Puh- leeze.... :rolleyes2:

Go ahead an draw that "Good luck symbol" on a school door and come back and let us know if everyone in Law Enforcement agrees with the most obvious conclusion that what you drew is NOT a "swastika."
 
maddog52 said:
IThe last time I rendered a salute uncovered was last fall ( I was wearing a company uniform but didn't have my hat). We had flown a fallen Marine home to CLT. Five or six TSA personnel and I formed an honor guard while he was being transfered from the hold to the hearse. The TSA folks were in uniform and had hands over their hearts. They said they try to form a guard whenever they get word of service member remains inbound. They earned my respect for that.
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Thank you and (you will not hear me day this often) thanks to the TSA for the honor guard.
 
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