Very Nice Day For Flying, Except for One Thing

Aeric

Aeric

Line Up and Wait
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Aeric
I went for a flight today for lunch with a friend to a non-towered airport on the CA coast (KHAF). Beautiful weather which is not all that common with the coastal fog. So I set up to cross rwy30 overhead to enter the right downwind. A Mooney announces that he is established on the right downwind and I reply that I have him in sight and that I will cross mid-field and do a 180 to enter the 45. He replies that he has me in sight as well. I cross mid-field, do the 180, get on the 45, enter the downwind and follow him, all the while announcing my position on every leg. He turns base, then final, and as I look to my right to confirm that it is time to turn base (it is, he's on short final), another Mooney (I believe, he NEVER said a word on the CTAF) swoops in from my 6 then 5 then 4, making what can be politely described as a short-approach. I was kinda surprised...
This guy made exactly zero position calls on the CTAF and swoops in "ahead" of me and actually touches down before the guy I was following exited the active.
While he probably knows how to fly an airplane quite well and is probably very familiar with the airport, I think that this is exactly what my CFI said about there being a few "cowboys" on weekends at this airstrip and to be really careful.
My question: What would some of you have said on the CTAF, if anything?
I held my tongue and simply made a more deliberate position call as I was turning base and then on final.
This incident didn't detract from an otherwise fine day of flying.:)
 
Don't know if there is a proper way to say something, but I would probably have said something to the Mooney on the ground to let him know someone else was landing behind him, and in front of you, so he wouldn't dawdle thinking he had plenty of time. No sense saying anything directly to the plane that cut in front of you - if he wasn't talking, it's possible he wasn't listening either.
 
what could you have said that would changed anything? Or will change anything in the future?
 
Matthew said:
Don't know if there is a proper way to say something, but I would probably have said something to the Mooney on the ground to let him know someone else was landing behind him, and in front of you, so he wouldn't dawdle thinking he had plenty of time. No sense saying anything directly to the plane that cut in front of you - if he wasn't talking, it's possible he wasn't listening either.
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Good point, if I was the first guy on the ground, it would have been nice to know that someone else was runnin' up behind me :eek:
 
Aeric said:
My question: What would some of you have said on the CTAF, if anything?
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Nothing. He didn't violate any regulations, and there are jerks everywhere. Nothing to be gained by a pi$$ing match over the CTAF. (Of course, this is coming from a guy who couldn't remain quiet when an idiot, described in another post, made unnecessary and uncomplimentary comments about my landing at a grass strip over the CTAF.)
 
Did he ever make any radio calls?
If not, either his radio wasn't working or (more likely) he had it tuned to the wrong frequency. He may not have seen or heard you or the other Mooney and was making his own position calls on the wrong frequency.
 
I flew into HAF today at about 1:30 (Cherokee, not a Mooney). You couldn't have asked for better weather. The airport was very busy. I had two ahead of me in the pattern, but no issues for me.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Did he ever make any radio calls?
If not, either his radio wasn't working or (more likely) he had it tuned to the wrong frequency. He may not have seen or heard you or the other Mooney and was making his own position calls on the wrong frequency.
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Not a peep. It's obvious that he just didn't want to follow a slow plane in. As I said, he touched down just before the guy I was following exited. For him to perform a go-around would have been pretty embarrassing to his passengers. And I was never upset, I just thought to myself "oh, hello, help yourself :rolleyes2: ".
 
Oh, $4.97 for 100LL at HAF (the pumps are closing on the 27th, though, for some maintenance).
 
John221us said:
I flew into HAF today at about 1:30 (Cherokee, not a Mooney). You couldn't have asked for better weather. The airport was very busy. I had two ahead of me in the pattern, but no issues for me.
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We couldn't, and yes it was. We flew in around 12:30.
 
John221us said:
Oh, $4.97 for 100LL at HAF (the pumps are closing on the 27th, though, for some maintenance).
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I should pay more attention to things like that. I rarely fuel up since my airplane is auto-fueled at PAO at $6.25, grrrr.
 
"That was some amazing flying. I've never seen Mooneys do a formation landing. Pretty nice how you dashed in under me to get there first. And I thought he was solo. Does that kind of flying require special training?"
 
LearDriver said:
Live and learn. Saying something won't fix an A hole. Just keep doing it correctly and learn to have eyes in the back of your head.
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Could be his radio was out or on the wrong freq. Bring it to his attention may help. Keeping the conversation on a calm instructive level is the hard part. There may be a valid reason for his actions, besides being a butt head. ;)
 
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I wouldn't have said anything (to the Mooney pilot), although I would have liked to. He isn't required to say a word, although it's good practice obviously.

It could have been his radio, but I'm guessing whereas he flew an...unconventional...pattern, he figured he'd just keep his mouth shut.
 
Geico266 said:
Could be his radio was out or on the wrong freq. Bring it to his attention may help. Keeping the conversation on a calm instructive level is the hard part. There may be a valid reason for his actiokns, besides being a butt head. ;)
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Four or five years ago a customer flew his plane into our airport for some work on it. He chewed one of our instructors who was doing touch and goes with a student a new one for not responding to his radio calls. The next day I flew the plane back to his home airport, twenty miles South of us. I started announcing my position a long way out. I realized when I was almost in the pattern that I was receiving but not transmitting. Same deal. I cut into the biggest space I could find and put it on the ground short and fast. Got out of the way as quickly as I could, but I got an ear full over the radio.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Did he ever make any radio calls?
If not, either his radio wasn't working or (more likely) he had it tuned to the wrong frequency. He may not have seen or heard you or the other Mooney and was making his own position calls on the wrong frequency.
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That was my initial thought.
 
Eric,

I really wanted to fly this weekend but didn't. I think the BF is growing tired of me spending literally every weekend at the airport. Next weekend he is gone, and we have the flour bombing.

Glad you got "out there" and went somewhere in your plane.


Kimberly
 
BrianR said:
Nothing. He didn't violate any regulations, and there are jerks everywhere. Nothing to be gained by a pi$$ing match over the CTAF. (Of course, this is coming from a guy who couldn't remain quiet when an idiot, described in another post, made unnecessary and uncomplimentary comments about my landing at a grass strip over the CTAF.)
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I agree that confronting him wouldn't accomplish anything. As to the regs, I'd say there's a pretty good chance he violated 91.113(g).
 
BrianR said:
Nothing. He didn't violate any regulations, and there are jerks everywhere. Nothing to be gained by a pi$$ing match over the CTAF. (Of course, this is coming from a guy who couldn't remain quiet when an idiot, described in another post, made unnecessary and uncomplimentary comments about my landing at a grass strip over the CTAF.)
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Radio calls are not required by regulations, but right-of-way rules are. Cutting in front of someone violates 14 CFR 91.113(g) (specifically, the last sentence) and 14 CFR 91.13(a).

I've had a few "close passes" by low wing aircraft flying into HAF as well. I wonder if it's the same guy.... in my case, most recently (not yesterday) he flew a straight in, blasting 100 feet away from my left wingtip at 2000 feet. I was headed overhead to enter the pattern on the 45.
 
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Would have said nothing. My responsibility to see and avoid. Right of way rules are between him and the attorneys after he kills someone. Saying something is pointless.
 
Old Geek said:
I agree that confronting him wouldn't accomplish anything. As to the regs, I'd say there's a pretty good chance he violated 91.113(g).
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I'm not the confrontational type :)
And 91.113(g) does contain the subject and I'll add that he was HIGHER than I was since I had just passed the numbers and was beginning my descent.
The only thing I take from this is education.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Eric,

I really wanted to fly this weekend but didn't. I think the BF is growing tired of me spending literally every weekend at the airport. Next weekend he is gone, and we have the flour bombing.

Glad you got "out there" and went somewhere in your plane.


Kimberly
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Oh Yeah:D.
E
 
The new standard address the case of "a crosswind condition does not exist", but if a cross wind condition does exist then it looks like a cross wind landing must be demonstrated.

If the crosswind is within POH limits and the student doesn't want to perform it then perhaps a 'letter of discontinuance' might be appropriate rather than 'notice of disapproval'.

In either case should not the student be required to demonstrate a cross wind landing unless he or she is testing on a calm day?
 
I once announced my departure over a nearby airport's ATIS frequency instead of my home base's CTAF thanks to the intercom switch being set to COM2 instead of COM1. I realized my mistake at 500' AGL when I started hearing the ATIS.
 
MassPilot said:
I once announced my departure over a nearby airport's ATIS frequency instead of my home base's CTAF thanks to the intercom switch being set to COM2 instead of COM1. I realized my mistake at 500' AGL when I started hearing the ATIS.
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This is why I do a "radio check" before I transmit on a CTAF. It also tells me if anyone is around (except for NORDOs, ultralights, etc.)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
This is why I do a "radio check" before I transmit on a CTAF. It also tells me if anyone is around (except for NORDOs, ultralights, etc.)
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So you're asking someone else if your radio works, possibly blocking other traffic calls, in an environment where radio calls aren't even necessary? ;)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Eric,

I really wanted to fly this weekend but didn't. I think the BF is growing tired of me spending literally every weekend at the airport. Next weekend he is gone, and we have the flour bombing.

Glad you got "out there" and went somewhere in your plane.


Kimberly
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Time to get a new boy friend, one who flies. :yesnod:
 
denverpilot said:
So you're asking someone else if your radio works, possibly blocking other traffic calls, in an environment where radio calls aren't even necessary? ;)
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Agreed. There is nothing wrong with a radio check when you are no-kidding experiencing comms/NORDO issues, but how about simply selecting the right radio/frequency, and making a succinct and useful "99" advisory along with that first transmission? We've all transmitted something on the wrong freq before by accident, and I'd rather hear a transmission that was just made in error, than one that was useless and wasteful from the outset. That's just lazy.

///smiles simulated, not trying to rag on you Kimberly, just pointing out that your life could be easier by not making needless comms in the hopes of preventing yourself from making a very inconsequential mistake
 
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Radio checks are common at my airport, but we usually do them on taxi out. Better to know on the ground. I usually do one, unless the airport is completely dead and there is no one to respond (if a tree falls in the woods....)
 
denverpilot said:
So you're asking someone else if your radio works, possibly blocking other traffic calls, in an environment where radio calls aren't even necessary? ;)
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Yes, and I realize some of you are against it. I don't do it 100% of the time, and there are "busy" days where I would not do it - and I even shorten my CTAF calls on those days.
 
John221us said:
Radio checks are common at my airport, but we usually do them on taxi out. Better to know on the ground. I usually do one, unless the airport is completely dead and there is no one to respond (if a tree falls in the woods....)
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Right, I do them on taxi out - not while in the air - and not if the CTAF is busy.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Eric,

I really wanted to fly this weekend but didn't. I think the BF is growing tired of me spending literally every weekend at the airport. Next weekend he is gone, and we have the flour bombing.

Glad you got "out there" and went somewhere in your plane.


Kimberly
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Time for a new boyfriend?? ;)

Steve Foley said:
"I've got good tone"
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
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