Using friends plane but issue while using plane. Provide some feedback...

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by rowdog_14, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Brian Flynn
    You should read carefully then, because it's probably in every one. There might even be a loss of use clause.
     
  2. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Line Up and Wait

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    It sounds like it might not be a very great deal to fly his complex airplane if you’re willing to squabble about flying it back to home base. Friend, associate, etc. it really doesn’t matter. It’s just common courtesy to not tax the person that is letting you use their plane instead of renting from an FBO. It’s a great extension of one’s kindness to let you use their aircraft to build hours (I’m guessing you’re saving money) and pretty much fly it like you own it. Repay kindness with kindness, not with a stiff-necked attitude.
     
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  3. Geosync

    Geosync Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This. Just pay to fly it back, as you would have had the incident not happened. Good will goes a long way, even if the owner is a jerk. You'll have done the right thing morally and will benefit in the long run. The alternative is getting into a prolonged ****ing contest, bruised egos, spreading rumors and at worst, legal headaches.
     
  4. Wagondriver

    Wagondriver Filing Flight Plan

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    Fly it back yourself, after getting yourself there. Like many have said, you still get to log the time.
    I don't see what the problem is really, you pay to rent it, this is just a rental not starting where you want to.
    Its also why I would never "rent" my planes, let a GOOD friend fly, perhaps.
     
  5. TheFB

    TheFB Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I might have been a bit nicer if it was my plane. That said, nothing written and he isn't being super harsh. Nobody got into this because of the bargain of flying.
     
  6. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Pattern Altitude

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    "I borrowed an associate's shovel, got the head stuck in hard earth, asked him to come pick me up and go get the shovel, when he refused, I posted an AITA on social media"

    "I took the FBO's courtesy car to lunch, it stalled in the Wendy's parking lot, I asked them to come pick me up and comp my frosty and my uber ride and to get their car out of the drive-thru lane where I left it"

    "My neighbor lets me ride his motorcycle for $1 a mile. I drove it to Sturgess. The kickstand wouldn't raise, so I left it there, and flew home on the airlines. He is refusing to pay for the airline ticket and wants me to ride it home instead"

    I don't know the situation, nor the possible extenuating circumstances, but my "This is a Garbage Person" meter pegged high. Sorry dude.
     
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  7. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Exactly. A plane is someone's baby. Most owners never let other people near it. Go above and beyond to keep that trust there.
     
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  8. rowdog_14

    rowdog_14 Filing Flight Plan

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    Yes I paid him even before posting this thread. I even reached out to a fellow fraternity brother that agreed to even fly us out there to get his plane before posting this thread. He has his plane back and we are squared away with him actually making money off of the flight back. He is going to have someone look at the electrical system. We took off from my home airport, went down to his airport and picked him up and then head over to get his plane.


    It is nice to see everyone's input on this. I still feel the way I feel and will sleep good tonight. I did not leave him high and dry and offered to get him back to his plane by two options one he did not like because it would have got us there at night. I did not fly the plane back and did not feel like it was my responsibility to pay for a plane back when I was not going to fly it and even he did not want to fly it at night for concern.

    For clarity on the transportation. I offered to take my father n laws extra car to get back home at no cost to the owner and I would bring him back.

    Just FYI I did not leave the plane on the side of the road/open field and tell him figure it out :). I left it with an FBO, requested tie downs, asked how much it was going to cost and informed them based on the weather at what time/day we would be back to the get the plane.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  9. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    So you did the right thing and now you're regretting it or feeling you got ripped off. Don't feel bad, I doubt he made any money off you and is probably renting to you so the airplane is used more, that's his payoff. If you don't want to be on the hook for a trip like this again, just stay close when you fly. Chalk it up to a lesson learned. I'll tell you, I fly rental Cirrus and I'd love it if someone offered me a deal like you have. I wouldn't think twice about paying to fly the airplane back in a situation like you ran into, wouldn't bother me in the least.

    As an aside, you should figure out the insurance situation on the aircraft and make sure you are covered should something happen. You might be in for another surprise should you have a problem.
     
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  10. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    People often approach me about doing a non-equity partnership or a dry rental in my 182. I always politely decline, for many reasons, but especially for these types of scenarios. I don’t have a staff of people to retrieve planes and troubleshoot maintenance issues from afar. All it takes is one MX issue 150 minutes away from home to ruin it and negate any financial benefit the arrangement would have offered. I’d rather let a friend fly the plane for the cost of gas, with the understanding that I’m doing him a favor and he’s responsible for getting the plane back to me at his expense.

    I suspect whatever you end up doing, it won’t matter because he’ll quickly figure out that the couple hundred bucks he’s “earning” isn’t worth it after dealing with a headache like this and cancel the arrangement. Perhaps a full service FBO with aircraft rental would be more your style.
     
  11. rowdog_14

    rowdog_14 Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks, I know I did the right thing and I do not feel bad. Just wanting others input to help understand it all and see different inputs. I am new to the flight area but not new to letting people borrow items and me borrowing items and doing what is right on my end as the person who provided the item to the borrower.

    Thanks and I actually do fly at a flight school with a full service FBO on the books but was trying to help a guy build time for ATP so I was driving 2 hours round trip to do this. At my flight school I have access to a complex plane that I actually volunteer at everyone weekend for 5 hours teaching youth and instrument students. The people can say what they want about this situation and how bad I may be for feeling this way but hey it is what it is and I take it as a big lesson learned.
     
  12. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    That's cool. I'm not saying you're bad or good. My point is full service FBOs are better set up for handling situations like what you've found. The expectation for renters is that if something goes wrong, they can leave the plane where it is and the FBO's maintenance guy will fly out with a flight instructor or two and fix the plane and fly it back at no cost to you. The overhead of doing this is built into their rates.

    Typically folks who inquire about dry leasing a plane from an owner never really consider these scenarios, but even the best maintained planes in the world break, and sometimes fixing them from afar can be highly problematic and costly.

    I hope things work themselves out.
     
  13. rowdog_14

    rowdog_14 Filing Flight Plan

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    Yep, and yes I am going to stick to my current flight school for renting, until I get my own plane and leave the using a persons plane for anything other than helping them out for the birds :). Yes all good things break and the expectation I have for treating people and this situation if flipped, helps me understand more clearly what majority of peoples thought process and expectations are. I would have taken a different approach as a owner but hey all is good and this is a page in my life book.
     
  14. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    "Actually [made] money off of the flight back"...

    Yeah, after he drove a five hour round trip to you, and then had to return again to retrieve the plane. What a smokin' deal you were for him.

    If this had been me, I would have called a mechanic instead of the owner. A quick inspection would have revealed the reason the plane wouldn't turn over, and then the phone call to the owner almost certainly would have resulted in a discussion that got the airplane started and back home.

    The fact it started after the owner drove 2 ½ hours to the plane's location shows the problem was minor. Instead of throwing your hands in the air and acting completely helpless, you could have acted in a much more responsible manner and paid a mechanic for an hour of his time and been on your way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  15. rowdog_14

    rowdog_14 Filing Flight Plan

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    I know there is a lot to this story and I did not go into all the details just out of not having a novel. He drove under choice of his own, I did not ask. I had my father-n-law about 15 minutes away with a car that I was going to drive. I honestly felt the owner wanted to come anyway, so he could look at it.

    We asked for a mechanic as soon as we landed. The airport facility had closed the shop...the next airport over had one and we informed the owner that and wanted to get the plane there but it would not start. I think there was an option to have him drive over on the table but I do not remember the reason why that was not taken. We had two guys(not mechanics) out helping to get it started even called two other guys with the exact same plane. This went on for about 2 hrs I would say, until the sun was right about setting. We tried everything we could even all the little options from the two owners of that plane type. Heck even the CFI I was with made a few calls...

    I am not going to agree that it was minor or major but I will say he wanted me to fly this plane in MVFR(Low) and IFR one day and I am happy I turned it down because if this happened and with my limited hours in this plane. It might not have turned out nice.

    Either way, no hands were thrown up and acting completely helpless. Again, not every course of action was mentioned so I understand most comments, like your "acted in a much more responsible manner..." are just out of just not knowing the full details. Come to find out the owner knew a mechanic in there area,that he said came out and looked at it the day after...why was this mechanics information not given to us to call. I can not verify if this is true or not but with the few calls I had with the owner, I think this option should have been given to us, but I am sure given the situation it slipped his mind.
     
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  16. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    Just as an addendum for future flight safety reference. If an airplane breaks away from home, and you cannot figure out what is wrong, just accept the fact that the plane is stranded until it can be properly assessed and either repaired, or cleared for flight to another nearby maintenance facility for repair. If the source of the maintenance issue cannot be determined, the plane should not be flown. It is not worth the risk. There are far worse things in the world than having a plane stranded for a few days to make a minor repair. BTDT. Many times. It turns out OK. A&Ps are incredibly nice and helpful all over the country. "Time to spare, go by air."
     
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