Vr, I'm late to the party and maybe asking for trouble but I'll try and offer something new. I played flight sim( and still do actually, even after getting my PPL) for fun. I never tried to supplement any of my training with it. Here's why- you can do anything on a sim without really "needing" to follow any procedures.
Thanks for the on-topic input.
I would think (correct me if I'm wrong) that this something of a benefit as well. What I mean by that is the fact that you can go ahead and make mistakes in the sim, not die and then learn from those mistakes with proper guidance from a competent pilot.
The other idea I had in mind was to not use it as merely a game, but as a tool. The simulations are not perfect. Not every aircraft model you install will have high enough fidelity to be a competent platform for procedures. However, my point has been that over the years, the technology has improved such that there are now significant aircraft models out there that do provide a level of "acceptable" systems fidelity in the logical dimension of flying, that do make them plausible platforms for procedures orientation in some situations.
I've also suggested that when you combine the flight simulator with a good aircraft model, good flight controls, hands-free 3D cockpit visualizations based on head movements, external 3D cockpit visualizations based on head movement, a wide enough flat panel (at least 27 inches minimum) live ATC modeling in real-time and you combine that with actual flight training publications, a competent pilot and/or CFI without personal hang-ups (a must), as well as a properly motivated student or student candidate - then you have the makings for doing some good Orientation to Procedures type of work.
What I am not suggesting is that desktop flight simulation will and/or should replace primary flight instruction. And, I am not suggesting that any delusion should be entered into that causes one to think that they are going to obtain an understanding of the kinesthetics of flying real aircraft.
I'm going to use the technology prior to starting my flight training because I don't have time to engage actual flight training right now, but also because I want to begin the process of orienting myself on those things related to flight instruction that professional flight instructors (that include attitude and demeanor as well as having a CFI/CFII rating in my opinion) conclude are some of the biggest reasons why many students development mental hang-ups during their initial training.
I've given several examples of what that looks like in this thread already, but I'll give one more: ATC Comms.
In one or more of the videos that I posted, you saw someone doing their PilotEdge I-5 Test. You can treat that as a game, or you can take it seriously from the perspective of the mental work that goes into passing that check. The things being done by that pilot (who happens to be a real instrument rated pilot by the way) are said to be many of the same logical procedures that he would have to do, if he were flying that exact same route in a real aircraft. Does the brain care? No.
What enters the visual cortex and then into the brain, is stored as a memory - very simply put. How that memory gets positioned inside the brain via the VC is not the concern of the brain. All the brain "knows" is that a memory has been stored and is now available for
recall. And, that is what interests me so much about using this stuff.
You know, its funny. I can remember my flight instructor telling me 20 years ago, to sit down in a chair with a plunger between my knees and a
poster of the Cessna 172 cockpit pinned to my wall at home. He told me to
"go over the 'procedures' that we talked about as if you're flying the real thing."
So, I drove to the airport bookstore, bought a poster of a Cessna 172, went to the hardware store and bought a new plunger, then went home and pinned the poster to the wall. I sat in front of that poster for hours at a time
trying to remember the procedures I was supposed to follow and working the plunger between my knees as I reached for wall mounted dials, buttons and switches printed on the poster itself.
If that instructor were around today, between lessons he'd no doubt be telling me to
re-fly the route and practice the procedures just like we did earlier today, before your next lesson. I'm going to test you on the previous lesson the next time we meet before we move on to the next. I have absolutely zero doubt that's what Chaz, would tell me to do, if I had access to the kind of technology that I'm trying to discuss inside this thread.
He would actually encourage it - not despise it. And, he would be proactive in helping me to use it, no doubt. Chaz, was a born teacher. He loved to teach and he loved to find ways to get his students better engaged in the process of learning. He was not afraid to inject new things into the learning process, as long as it benefited the student in the long run.
I could only spend four (4) lessons with him - but I wish he were around today.
However, he is not actually clear of the runway as it is kind of clear that he purposefully holds short of what he clearly thinks is a hold short line.
The "Hold Short" instruction given by ATC and "Clear of the Active" communication given by a pilot, are two different things. I do remember that from 20 years ago and only four (4) lessons. It was one of the few things I do remember.
Two things:
1) The video of the Skycatcher is not an example of someone working on procedures in the same way that I have in mind.
2) The video of "Keith" shows that he is indeed "Off The Active" runway after he completes is test.
I'm not sure which video you are responding to exactly.
More to your point, this is exactly the kind of things that this thread was supposed to be all about. If I had been the pilot in that video, and you had felt that you saw me inside or outside the hold short lines, then you could simply make a post telling me to:
"Pay attention to the Hold Short lines next time. You were on the wrong side of the paint!"
A perfect example of how this thread was supposed to turn out. That does not have to be a persistent "bad habit." It could indeed be a moment of clarity and appropriate correction. Others watching it could also benefit from the information and do better in their own actual flying.
Keith, is an actual Instrument Rating Pilot. So, what you see him doing is what "Keith" does - not necessarily what I would do.
I keep reading that the GA community is dying. I think one way that it can turn that corner, is for its members to start thinking outside the box of convention when it comes to how it deals with the non-flying public - in addition to changing some of its long standing attitudes about "us" vs "them" when it comes to someone entering the community (or re-entering in my case) with the intention of going re-starting their flight training after a very long time away.
Now in the sim, no one is there to tell him he is making a mistake, but he is- so he is left to figure this out on his own, which is highly unlikely.
With the internet being what it is, no one is "on their own." Like I said, if he had the same idea that I have, he could have posted that video on a GA Pilots Forum and gotten someone to critique his flight.
It seems to me that would be a much more interesting component to flight forums than tossing insults back and forth to each other like some (not you) tend to love to do about things that in the long run, really don't amount to a hill of beans.
If he's on the wrong side of the broken lines, then guess what - you can tell him about it after watching his video, and he can load-up another flight and try it again until he gets it right. It is an easy correction that does to have to become a bad habit and he does not have to pay for it with his life, much more importantly - nor does anyone else.
In real flying, you make a mistake like that and your CFI, ATC and whoever else is around is going to tell you as it is a pretty serious error.
Someone critiquing his video can do the same - just not in real time. If the sim pilot treats it like a game, then he won't care one bit - nor should he care one bit. But, if he treats it like it was part of a broader design on learning some fundamentally important concepts related to his future as a real pilot, then his attitude and demeanor about taking such criticism will be completely different. Thus, his attempt to correct will be certain.
I recognize this is not you flying but it serves to show you my point which is you can learn procedures by using a sim, but who is there to tell you if they are wrong? You run a large risk of learning the wrong procedure- that's not a good thing.
Case in point as stated above. The problem is resolved at this level with the internet, video and competent pilots willing to critique. Heck, if I post a video like that, go ahead and tear into it - tear it to pieces - tear it to shreds. I'll only build a new video having attempted to correct the problems that other competent pilots have detected.
That was supposed to be the point of the thread.
Thanks for the contribution! Your points are all very well taken and understood.
