Ed Haywood
En-Route
I do not. W&B issues. Best I can do is bright paint job.
Using ADS-B to clear practice area
- Thread starter Ed Haywood
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Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
wanttaja
En-Route
I've considered adding a smoke system to my Fly Baby to help all the Mr. Magoos spot my airplane in the pattern. Trouble is, I know that every time I used it, 911 would be bombarded with reports of an airplane on fire.....
Ron Wanttaja
Ron Wanttaja
Checkout_my_Six
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Are we seriously asking this question? Ads-B is slow and unreliable. I fly inside a mandatory area and am consistently either missing a target or getting bogus hits.
Half Fast
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One of my hangar neighbors does skywriting in an AgCat. In the pattern he’ll sometimes give a quick puff of smoke when turning downwind to base or base to final. Sure makes him easy to see!
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ed, I would absolutely use ADSB to help clear an area for maneuvers, I don't do aerobatics but I do use it when I'm practicing maneuvers. I'll also be talking to ATC on flight following. I've had them recommend a different area to avoid flight paths, or whatever. Furthermore, they sometimes point out primary targets with no data. It works well and why wouldn't someone use every tool available to them? Highly recommend it.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Just tried this.ADSBExchange has a replay function:
Adjust date and time at the bottom.ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live
ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live - aircraft flight historyglobe.adsbexchange.com
Nauga,
deconstructed
Earlier today, I listened to an NPR story about a guy who spots sharks at California beaches with a drone. They interviewed a swimmer and showed her video of a shark swimming 50m from her.
I feel like that lady.
Image below shows PA28 passing 1/2 mile behind and 600 feet below as I set up to dive into my practice box. I am the lower aircraft.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
If this is the only viable practice area within a reasonable distance from home, the answer is obvious: move.
Flight following might have advised you about that plane; the “might” becomes more probable if you called ATC just prior and advised them you were about to begin aerobatic maneuvering.
Flight following might have advised you about that plane; the “might” becomes more probable if you called ATC just prior and advised them you were about to begin aerobatic maneuvering.
Pinecone
En-Route
Don't count on it helping.
Used to have access to a T-34. Was there for the formation clinic before Sun n Fun for 2000 and 2001. One of those times, several ER students went full count panic because of not seeing us. A 6 ship of T-34s. All with wing landing lights on (12 lights), ALL with smoke on. And they still couldn't see us.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Now that I am more attuned to it, I am noticing more traffic during routines. Yesterday I saw nearby aircraft twice. One was 2K below me and a mile offset, so not a factor. A helo passed across my nose at same altitude approx 1-2 miles away right after I finished. I would guess he probably saw me and perhaps adjusted heading.
I contain all my maneuvers within a 1000 meter cube of airspace, so anyone on heading to pass through my box should see me maneuvering for 30-60 seconds depending on airspeed. I'm also pushing ADS-B out so they can see me on fishbox, and I assume I'm visible on radar for aircraft on IFR or flight following.
My practice box is shown in red. The challenge is finding a patch of ground >5nm away from all federal airways. Somewhat counterintuitively, the further east I go away from Tampa, the more dense the VOR airways become. Also, there seems to be more traffic outside the Class B and Mode C radius than inside.
I contain all my maneuvers within a 1000 meter cube of airspace, so anyone on heading to pass through my box should see me maneuvering for 30-60 seconds depending on airspeed. I'm also pushing ADS-B out so they can see me on fishbox, and I assume I'm visible on radar for aircraft on IFR or flight following.
My practice box is shown in red. The challenge is finding a patch of ground >5nm away from all federal airways. Somewhat counterintuitively, the further east I go away from Tampa, the more dense the VOR airways become. Also, there seems to be more traffic outside the Class B and Mode C radius than inside.
Half Fast
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The Tampa and Orlando bravos and Mode C veils create a funnel in the middle of the state. That area fills up with bugsmashers staying out of the bravo and with no-electric cubs and seaplanes and ultralights avoiding the veils, all going north and south. MOAs and restricted areas compound the effect. At my home drome of Winter Haven I'm in the middle of it, and there's quite a bit of traffic.
Last edited:
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
Is there still a need for the rule against acro within five miles of a Victor airway? Does anyone still fly those at the altitudes where folks are doing aerobatics? The rule references Federal Airways, but those are limited to VOR and /MF (colored) airways. I’d say that clause should be deleted, as it’s no longer relevant due to changes in navigation technology obviating Victor airways at lower altitudes.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Maybe so, but no upside and all downside for the FAA to eliminate rules like that. Right after they do it, a Pitts will smash into a plane full of kids on a field trip.
I always thought it was 5 miles, but just re-read the FAR and it is 4 miles. Makes it a bit easier for me, since my box is pretty close to several.
For a long time, the ambiguous phrasing of the Class B part of the reg was an issue:
A lot of people read that as prohibiting acro under the Class B shelf. About 20 years ago, an FAA lawyer wrote a memo stating it did not.
Pinecone
En-Route
I get V and T routes in clearances all the time. I navigate via GPS, but the clearance is for an airway.
Hang 4
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There's a major sailplane operation and two world renown hang gliding flight parks near the top of your red lines. Lots of those two types of traffic, mostly between 2,000 and 6,000 feet. When I flew there before having my PP I'd say I saw or heard and plane near enough to think about it maybe twice in about 200 hours of total HG flight time. Pretty sure none of the GA pilots saw me, but I was never in any danger as we had plenty of separation and I had plenty of time to dive away. During competition season there's a hundred or so sailplanes all launching in the early afternoon and 60 or so Hang Gliders. The two operations coordinate to keep the hang gliding and sailplane competitions on different weeks and not the week of Sun n Fun.
The no-electric Cubs and ultralights don't have to avoid the veil, they just have to stay out of the Bravo.
Half Fast
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I thought you had to have ADSB-Out to enter the veil. Is there an exception for no-electric planes? One of the ultralight guys at the airport told me he had to stay out and I assumed it was because of the lack of ADSB, but I don’t really know.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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No electric exemption:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/part-91/section-91.225#p-91.225(e)
You have to stay out of the actual B/C.
Part 103:
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
That’s the airspace. Is there an exemption for the mode C veil?
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Yes. In the link. for no-electric.
Part 103 does not reference the Mode C veil.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Fortunately most of those are typically low n slow, and thus easier to see and avoid. Plus they have plenty of time to see me maneuvering. I should be easy to spot since my maneuvering will present my wing surface in all directions every 15 seconds or so.
My main concern would be something with a higher closure rate like a Mooney arriving in the box while the pilot has his head down fiddling with avionics or something.
It occurs to me now that my direction of flight is predominantly east-west, while almost all traffic is north-south. The only east-west traffic in my area is military aircraft from MacDill, usually pairs of A-10's heading to Avon Park range. I assume they are on radar with Tampa approach.