Used Aircraft Sales

brien23

brien23

Pattern Altitude
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,624
Location
Oak Harbor
Display Name
Brien
Home Airfield
76S
So many planes for sale, fewer and fewer pilots to buy them. :(
 
Flying Viking said:
Good, that means prices will go down. Supply and demand.
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Or that owners that can't fly anymore will hold out for higher prices while their planes sit and continue to lose value because they are rusting away...
 
I bought my plane back in October. I just went and looked up Cherokees and the same planes are still for sale, and some at prices so high they will never sell. But I have a feeling I know how that conversation goes.

Wife: Honey sell your plane, I don't like it and its dangerous.
Husband: Sure honey Ill list it on barnstormers tonight. (hehe Ill list it so high nobody will buy it)
Wife: why do you still have the plane?
Husband: I don't know slow market, but I have done what you said and listed it.
Wife: okay cool, hopefully it sells soon.
 
Flying Viking said:
Good, that means prices will go down. Supply and demand.
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Prices are already pretty much bottom of the barrel. Any lower and they will just go to recycling rather than the bother of selling them. Then all that will be left is expensive planes again, with the majority of them being plastic based. Plastics are not permanent, they all oxidize and deteriorate. Aviation will not likely get any cheaper than it is right now, so for people who have been waiting, you may want to get something before they all go to hell. The good (cheap) ones are already gone. You can get good ones from "unrealistic sellers" by paying "too much money", or you can buy a cheap one and fly it into the ground, or you can maintain, repair, and refurbish t and spend 75% more over 5 years than if you just bought the good one in the first place. This doesn't count for the downtime you can't fly because the extra time in the shop.
 
brien23 said:
So many planes for sale, fewer and fewer pilots to buy them. :(
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Not sure about that.

Around here the flight schools seem to be doing well, all the college flight programs I know of are filling classrooms, A&Ps are keeping busy.

Just bought my 185 less than a year ago, know a few people who recently bought planes too.

Overpriced generic 172s and PA28s etc will sit for sale.

Seems like the nice planes with sane prices, not fire sale prices or anything, seem to move. :dunno:
 
Henning said:
Prices are already pretty much bottom of the barrel. You can get good ones from "unrealistic sellers" by paying "too much money", or you can buy a cheap one and fly it into the ground, or you can maintain, repair, and refurbish t and spend 75% more over 5 years than if you just bought the good one in the first place. This doesn't count for the downtime you can't fly because the extra time in the shop.
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You pragmatists are such buzz kills! :wink2:
 
Henning said:
Prices are already pretty much bottom of the barrel. Any lower and they will just go to recycling rather than the bother of selling them. Then all that will be left is expensive planes again, with the majority of them being plastic based. Plastics are not permanent, they all oxidize and deteriorate. Aviation will not likely get any cheaper than it is right now, so for people who have been waiting, you may want to get something before they all go to hell. The good (cheap) ones are already gone. You can get good ones from "unrealistic sellers" by paying "too much money", or you can buy a cheap one and fly it into the ground, or you can maintain, repair, and refurbish t and spend 75% more over 5 years than if you just bought the good one in the first place. This doesn't count for the downtime you can't fly because the extra time in the shop.
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I believe the bottom has not been reached and still has a way to go. As for twin engine aircraft, hopeless.
 
The last time I looked to buy one was maybe 10 years ago. PA-28s that were 20 years old or so at that time, very good condition but no GPS, etc. were ~$60K. And they were firm on their prices. Count me in with the group that says prices have never been better than they are now.
 
I believe I'll wait to see what happens in about 5 years. Lots of baby-boomers passing on or hanging up the wings. ADS-B compliant hardware costs looming for 2020. There may be a decent amount of small GA birds that come up for sale here in the near future to further push prices down a bit. I figure the next 5-10 years is going to be the low-point for pricing, especially when the non-pilot children inherit an asset that costs them tie-down/hangar money each month, they'll take the money and run.
 
James331 said:
Not sure about that.

Around here the flight schools seem to be doing well, all the college flight programs I know of are filling classrooms, A&Ps are keeping busy.

Just bought my 185 less than a year ago, know a few people who recently bought planes too.

Overpriced generic 172s and PA28s etc will sit for sale.

Seems like the nice planes with sane prices, not fire sale prices or anything, seem to move. :dunno:
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Case in point...a year and a half ago, we found the R182 we wanted. We put a realistic price on our 172, and it was gone in two days, with two more people with deposits ready, hoping the deal would fall thru. We judged the market, knew the airplane, and could document it. We knew it would go quickly, but were amazed at HOW quickly.

The grossly over-priced R182's we looked at back then are still on the market.

Jim
 
Jim Rosenow said:
Case in point...a year and a half ago, we found the R182 we wanted. We put a realistic price on our 172, and it was gone in two days, with two more people with deposits ready, hoping the deal would fall thru. We judged the market, knew the airplane, and could document it. We knew it would go quickly, but were amazed at HOW quickly.

The grossly over-priced R182's we looked at back then are still on the market.

Jim
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The only people paying full price for aircraft are the insurance companies.
 
brien23 said:
The only people paying full price for aircraft are the insurance companies.
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How do you define 'full price' in the used anything market?

And the only 'full price' the insurance companies pay is the declared/insured hull value which may be more or less than the airplane is actually worth.

Airplanes aren't like houses where you have an appraiser come out and determine the replacement value ahead of time.
 
Henning said:
How do you you figure it can go lower? You can't give your plane away.:(
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The problem with a lot of the fleet is they require avionics upgrades for IFR, and many have high time engines that need to be overhauled or replaced. For your average single engine with a Lyc, or Continental, and crappy panel you are looking at $50K - $60K in work for planes that are not worth that much on the market.

Remember, most of us are not A&P's, nor avionics guys so we pay FULL RETAIL.
 
I looked at a plane the other week, 1985 Dakota. It was a low time, 1500 hours TT, but EVERYTHING was original from 1985, engine, paint, interior, avionics, everything.

The pilot owner passed on, they are at least $25k higher than a generous 'V-Ref' figure. They take it as a plus nobody 'messed' with the plane since new.

Maybe someone will pay it, likely not.
 
Anthony said:
The problem with a lot of the fleet is they require avionics upgrades for IFR, and many have high time engines that need to be overhauled or replaced. For your average single engine with a Lyc, or Continental, and crappy panel you are looking at $50K - $60K in work for planes that are not worth that much on the market.

Remember, most of us are not A&P's, nor avionics guys so we pay FULL RETAIL.
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This is where primary non-commercial would shine. It would bring avionic updates into a realm where they're cost effective on the aging airframe pricing structure.

Put another way, I'd be willing to buy a vintage airplane with a need for avionic upgrade (to a cursory /G filing ability with g430-screen level of moving map capability or better) for 40-60K w/ mid time engine and spend 15K doing this upgrade EAB style, or I can tell the seller he's gotta come down 20AMU or more in order for me to absorb the panel cutout modernization and avionic upgrade 'certified style'. The latter case study is the prevalent case unfortunately, which is a stalemate where the buyer can't use the airplane for what he wants and the underutilizing seller tersely allows the airplane to rot to nothing, losing it all in the process.

EAB guys essentially bypassed this avionics mexican standoff and so there you see the RV pricing structure, which I consider inflated but there you go. For those of us who need that third/fourth seat, we're stuck in dying certified airplane limbo, unless you have 50K/yr all-in yearly budgets, then you're probably ok.:dunno:
 
hindsight2020 said:
EAB guys essentially bypassed this avionics mexican standoff and so there you see the RV pricing structure, which I consider inflated but there you go. For those of us who need that third/fourth seat, we're stuck in dying certified airplane limbo, unless you have 50K/yr all-in yearly budgets, then you're probably ok.:dunno:
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^^^^^This, exactly! I think Experimental is the place to be with an Aspen (or similar) panel. That plus a tablet with charts, weather, etc and you are good to go. The problem is the cost of an already built RV, or having the time/energy/discipline to build yourself.
 
Fearless Tower said:
How do you define 'full price' in the used anything market?

And the only 'full price' the insurance companies pay is the declared/insured hull value which may be more or less than the airplane is actually worth.

Airplanes aren't like houses where you have an appraiser come out and determine the replacement value ahead of time.
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The price the seller sets. It is also typically the price they insure for since it's what they deem it is worth. I got paid $70k because that's what I insured it for, it was also my selling price.
 
Henning said:
The price the seller sets. It is also typically the price they insure for since it's what they deem it is worth. I got paid $70k because that's what I insured it for, it was also my selling price.
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Yes, but not everyone does that and there is no requirement to insure it for what you paid.
 
Anthony said:
The problem with a lot of the fleet is they require avionics upgrades for IFR, and many have high time engines that need to be overhauled or replaced. For your average single engine with a Lyc, or Continental, and crappy panel you are looking at $50K - $60K in work for planes that are not worth that much on the market.

Remember, most of us are not A&P's, nor avionics guys so we pay FULL RETAIL.
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See, that's the mistake in thinking, you spend the $50-60k, and you gain the capability of a $150k+ airplane. So if you start with a $40k airplane, you save $50k to get the same capability.
 
[email protected] said:
Can you elaborate on the meaning of this? Thanks!
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If you underinsured too much, they discount what they are going to pay you by a factor related to the quantity you underinsure. If it exists in your policy it will be explained in the policy section called Co Insurance in all the states I know.
 
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