Use of medical classes

[mandm]

Wanted to gather feedback on the differences between medical classes. Please correct & add:

First class
Captain / PIC of Part 121/135

Second class
SIC of Part 121/135, using Commercial privileges

Third class
All Private privileges, flight instruction, what else?

Basic med
Private privileges for smaller aircraft (<6 seats)

 

[Samuel Seidel]

No Medical: Sport Pilot

 

[Rgbeard]

Giving flight instruction would require 2nd class, no?

 

[Rgbeard]

BasicMed is acceptable for 6 seat aircraft.

 

[EdFred]

Giving flight instruction would require 2nd class, no?

No. You can CFI with 3rd class, Basic Med, or no medical at all. You don't even need the 3rd class to take the commercial or CFI ride. 61.23(a)(3)(ii) and (iii) and (b)(5)

 

[midlifeflyer]

No. You can CFI with 3rd class, Basic Med, or no medical at all. You don't even need the 3rd class to take the commercial or CFI ride. 61.23(a)(3)(ii) and (iii) and (b)(5)

Quite true. But CFI with no medical at all is pretty limited.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Giving flight instruction would require 2nd class, no?

Not in the US.

 

[mandm]

Called my AME to ask about the exam procedures.

First class
Urine test, enhanced vision requirement, EKG for those 35+ years old

Second class
Urine test plus enhanced vision requirements

Third class
Urine test plus basic vision requirements

Fee is the same for all 3 classes.

 

[mandm]

You only need a first class for 121 and turbojet and larger 135 stuff, basically when you need a ATP, a good deal of prop and RW 135 you can PIC on a CPL and second class

Is the first class for both PIC and SIC in 121, turbojet, and larger 135? Or just for PIC/Captain?

 

[Rgbeard]

No. You can CFI with 3rd class, Basic Med, or no medical at all. You don't even need the 3rd class to take the commercial or CFI ride. 61.23(a)(3)(ii) and (iii) and (b)(5)

I guess you got me where you can give flight instruction, but probably not receive compensation with a 3rd.

To give flight instruction, and be compensated would require 2nd. Did I get that okay?

 

[Rgbeard]

So being a paid CFI doesn't reach into commercial privileges?

 

[MauleSkinner]

So being a paid CFI doesn't reach into commercial privileges?

No.

 

[Rgbeard]

So, why does one generally get the commercial ticket before the CFI?

I feel like I'm being snagged on a technicality here, that no one's saying.

 

[Lindberg]

So, why does one generally get the commercial ticket before the CFI?

I feel like I'm being snagged on a technicality here, that no one's saying.

Commercial certificate is a prerequisite for a CFI certificate. But instructing is a CFI privilege, not a commercial privilege. Did you read 61.23? Which part was unclear?

 

[MauleSkinner]

So, why does one generally get the commercial ticket before the CFI?

I feel like I'm being snagged on a technicality here, that no one's saying.

One consideration is that you’re allowed to teach Commercial Pilot applicants, so theoretically you should be more familiar with them if you’ve got the Commercial.

 

[Rgbeard]

Commercial certificate is a prerequisite for a CFI certificate. But instructing is a CFI privilege, not a commercial privilege. Did you read 61.23? Which part was unclear?

I never have read 61.23, because I have no interest in being either Commercial or CFI.

I just always equated being a paid flight instructor to a commercial privilege.

Now I know differently. Oh, and I'm still probably not Googling 61.23.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Well

Back when I got my ATP, before all the rule changes, I did my dual with a CFII in a Seminole, now I could self endorse as it was a ATP, I still made him sign me off in IACRA which as a CPL CFII he was able to do

I got my ATP before IACRA, and no endorsement was required.

I think the feds just didn’t want 80hr TT CFIs endorsing people to go off solo into the wild blue yonder, so they said you have to be a CPL to go for your CFI

They allow it now.

 

[Brad Z]

I never have read 61.23, because I have no interest in being either Commercial or CFI.

I just always equated being a paid flight instructor to a commercial privilege.

Now I know differently. Oh, and I'm still probably not Googling 61.23.

61.23 is medical certificates. Every pilot should be versed in the regulation.

 

[Lindberg]

I never have read 61.23, because I have no interest in being either Commercial or CFI.

I just always equated being a paid flight instructor to a commercial privilege.

Now I know differently. Oh, and I'm still probably not Googling 61.23.

Best of luck on your next FR or checkride.

 

[Rgbeard]

Best of luck on your next FR or checkride.

my last one was just fine, thanks.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I guess you got me where you can give flight instruction, but probably not receive compensation with a 3rd.

To give flight instruction, and be compensated would require 2nd. Did I get that okay?

No. The FAA's philosophy has always been that CFIs are paid for teaching, not for flying.

So CFIs do not need a medical at all if not acting as PIC or as required crew. I knew examples of this.

If the CFI does need to be PIC or required crew (pilot under the hood for example), then the CFI only needs a third class or BasicMed.

yeah, I know. You suffer from Regaphobia or Regulitis, or simply don't care about the rules that apply to your flying, but anyway...

The Reg. 61.23

a) Operations requiring a medical certificate.Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—
***

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

***

(ii) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as the pilot in command or as a required flightcrew member, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i) [BasicMed];​

(Then there are sport CFIs who require neither a commercial certificate nor a medical of any type.)

 

[Rgbeard]

No. The FAA's philosophy has always been that CFIs are paid for teaching, not for flying.

So CFIs do not need a medical at all if not acting as PIC or as required crew. I knew examples of this.

If the CFI does need to be PIC or required crew (pilot under the hood for example), then the CFI only needs a third class or BasicMed.

yeah, I know. You suffer from Regaphobia or Regulitis, or simply don't care about the rules that apply to your flying, but anyway...

The Reg. 61.23

a) Operations requiring a medical certificate.Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—
***

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

***

(ii) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as the pilot in command or as a required flightcrew member, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i) [BasicMed];​

(Then there are sport CFIs who require neither a commercial certificate nor a medical of any type.)

Thanks, Mark. That explains it very clearly. I appreciate your clarification on the issue.

 

[EdFred]

So your last flight review didn't include anything about medical?

 

[Pinecone]

When instructing, you are being paid to instruct, not fly, so no medical required to instruct.

It used to not be this way, but there was an aerobatic instructor who lost his medical and was instructing. Late 70s or 80s. FAA violated him. He went to court and won.