US Space Command moving from CO to AL, why?

Members of the Space Force are called Guardians. Named after the Cleveland Guardians (formerly the Cleveland Indians)?
I don't completely disagree with the formation of Space Command, though I have always been puzzled as to why we needed a new branch (sort of - a "branchlet"). A new branch just seems needlessly inefficient and expensive.

Justifiable or not, though, the - I don't know, "branding"? - is straight out of some hokey sci-fi novels I read as a teenager. Right down to the new dress uniform. :rolleyes:
 
Guardians of the planet?
 
Well the various services already had space operations before this debacle. I believe the AF had theirs in Colorado which is why that was the obvious choice. The other logical choice was Sandy Eggon where the Navy had their Spawars stuff. Back when I worked in the Pentagon I'd regularly pass the SPAWAR command office on my way to where I was working. For a brief period, I was "[email protected]," which really scared all my friends.
 
I don't completely disagree with the formation of Space Command, though I have always been puzzled as to why we needed a new branch (sort of - a "branchlet"). A new branch just seems needlessly inefficient and expensive.
Goddess knows that I don't agree with the current POTUS on many aspects, but I'm fully supportive of this one.

We're in the same place we were in the '20s and '30s..."Battleship Admirals" and "Infantry Generals" didn't understand how air power would change future warfare. It led to the creation of the Air Force in 1947, and the same sort of thing justifies the creation of Space Force today.

Knowing how to fly an aircraft has NOTHING to do with space operations. Yet if you look at the photos of the people in charge at Space Force, you see a curious thing...most of the commanders are pilots. All their experience, all their training, does not prepare them for space operations. What General Spaatz did over Germany in 1944 has nothing to do with gaining space superiority.

Two stories on that. When I was on active duty in 1976-1980, I was one of the on-duty operators for an early warning satellite. A number of pilots/navigators were assigned to us as a career-broadening assignment. These guys were bored out of their minds, and kept trying to get reassigned to a flying job. BTW, our branch head, the deputy squadron commander, and the squadron commander were all pilots. The squadron commander used to tell us stories about flying F-51s in Korea.

Had nothing to do with what we actually *did*, and he was legendarily clueless about the actual operations of the spacecraft. But he had wings, and, to the Air Force, that meant he could do anything. Gahh. And, of course, if two persons were in line to assume command, the pilot would get the job.

Second story was related to the Columbia disaster. There was a lot of idiocy making its way on the aviation social media back then, by pilots who did NOT understand how space works. "I would have slow-flied Columbia down to minimize the heat friction." You *can't slow-fly an orbiting vehicle, and the reentry heat isn't caused by friction. "They should have just flown up to the Space Station...it was only a few miles higher." Changing the orbit to that magnitude would require about as much fuel as the additional launch.

Now, of course, these were not (necessarily) Air Force pilots. But I'm sure there had been the same comments made.

So a separate Space Force was needed to give space operations some independence, to provide for space-saavy people to move up in rank rather than assigning the first Air Force pilot who needed a career broadening assignment.

I'll give a third example. I was loaned to the P-8 Poseidon project at one point, to help develop a new warfighting system. Thing were going OK, until the Navy decided they didn't NEED to put that capability on the P-8. They could just foward the data back to the CONUS and process it there.

How were they going to get the data back to the CONUS? By the same communications satellites that would be toast in the first six hours of a shooting war. The Navy just didn't understand that those assets would be the first targeted.

The main drawback to the current setup is that Space Force is not an separate service. There's no "Secretary of the Space Force," the SecAF does both jobs. As mentioned, it's similar to the Navy and Marine Corps relationship. How well does that work for the Marines? Note the Gyrenes are still flying Sea Cobra helicopters, a design tracing back to the Vietnam War. If the Navy was told to give up its F/A-18s in favor of A-4s, you'd have another mutiny on your hands. The Marines just soldier on.

Consider: If Space Force needs a new satellite, but the F-35 program needs modifications...who do you think will get the budget?

So, yes, we need Space Force as a separate service. It'll probably take another Billy Mitchell to get one, and you know what happened to him.....

Ron "Soap Box Off" Wanttaja
 
Knowing how to fly an aircraft has NOTHING to do with space operations. Yet if you look at the photos of the people in charge at Space Force, you see a curious thing...most of the commanders are pilots. All their experience, all their training, does not prepare them for space operations.

.....

Note the Gyrenes are still flying Sea Cobra helicopters, a design tracing back to the Vietnam War.

The role of a Combatant Commander is to command. The best predictor of high level command ability is prior demonstrated success as a senior commander. It will be a long time before a space-only guy has enough command experience to get the keys to one of the 11 UCCs. Maybe an ICBM guy?

When I was in USMC Command and Staff College, one of my close friends was a Marine aviator directly involved with the development of the Super Cobra. It would be wrong to assume the Marines got that helo forced on them. They looked at available platforms and decided the Cobra was the most adaptable to their mission. They considered the Apache and Blackhawk but decided those platforms could not meet their range requirements with all the maritime mods.

I love my Marine brothers but the poor stepson schtick is mostly propaganda. The Marine Corps has an effective lobby in Congress and gets what they want. I have spent plenty of time around Marine forces and they are well resourced. At the same time the Marines were fielding the Super Cobra and Super Huey, they were fielding the Osprey, the most expensive rotary wing aircraft in history.
 
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Huntsville is a great town with low cost of living and a long heritage of rocket and space research. Why wouldn’t they make the move?
 
I love my Marine brothers but the poor stepson schtick is mostly propaganda. The Marine Corps has an effective lobby in Congress and gets what they want. I have spent plenty of time around Marine forces and they are well resourced. At the same time the Marines were fielding the Super Cobra and Huey, they were fielding the Osprey, the most expensive rotary wing aircraft in history.
TRUE!

A story that is often told that goes like this.

It's budget time in the Congress. The Navy comes to testify they need some ships, airplanes and a submarine or two. They're asked "Are you Sure?" Navy says "Yes." Congress gives them all that was asked for. Next the USAF comes in and says they need a bunch of airplanes, some missiles and a WHOLE LOT of spares. They're asked "Are you sure?" USAF answers "We'll do a study", comes back 6 weeks later and says "We're sure" and Congress gives them more than they asked for to keep from retiring planes from their home state Air Guard. Finally, the Army comes in and says they need a bunch of tanks, trucks, weapons and assorted other stuff. They're asked "Are you sure?" The Army says "Don't know, what will you give us?"

Previously, the USMC has already gotten all they asked for before the hearings are even scheduled and it is locked into the budget system by the USMC Lobby.
 
Keep in mind that the USMC exists by specific Congressional mandate. The other services just exist.
 
wrt Marines: many years ago I was looking at software maintenance costs (organic) rising for the Army, Navy, USAF, etc. What stood out was that the Marines weren't experiencing software maintenance costs rising anything like the other services. Thinking the Marines were doing something differenct wrt how the software was being developed, we looked at why their software maintenance were so low. Turns out the Marines simply took the developed software and fielded it. Unlike the other services, if there was something "wrong" or something less than ideal, the Marines simply adapted, improvised, and went on with business.
 
I apologize if anyone already pointed this out.

Reaction Time.

Huntsville is more than a mile further from space than Colorado Springs. :)

But isn't c springs further from equatorial orbits?
 
When I was in the Air Force, I worked in a Tactical Operations Room where the data from two GEO satellites was used to detect missile launches. There was a Senior Director (SD), a Deputy Director, an NCO assisting them, the Technical Assessment Group (TAG), myself and a fellow engineer (to provide technical assessment of satellite data, one mission, one spacecraft), ~four enlisteds to perform real-time monitoring of the data (displayed on world maps), and two NCOs to manage the site configuration.

Launches were detected both automatically by the software (IBM 360-based) or manually by the enlisteds watching their monitors. If a launch was detected, the SD had two minutes to decide whether the event was real (my job was to be familiar with the sensor design and provide technical assessment as to the launch report viability). The SD could decide that the event was false, and the event would be logged for later analysis (by me or my fellow engineers). If not, he or she could send a launch alert with a low, medium, or high assessment. This report went...everywhere. Cheyenne Mountain, SAC in Omaha, Pentagon, etc.

The ability to fly a T-38 had nothing to do with performing any of these tasks. Lightning-fast reflexes for dogfighting weren't a help. With two minutes reaction time, there wasn't time to call a command group for a discussion. It was all on the Senior Director...often a First Lieutenant, even a Second Lieutenant. The on-duty engineer was their only advisor.

Needless to say, there weren't any rated officers (e.g. pilots) acting as SDs. They were all in supervisory positions, getting their "command" experience for promotion.

Oddly enough, there were a couple of pilots in our engineer slots. Ones that had needed "career broadening" experience and happened to have engineering degrees. They'd get promotions, while the non-pilot engineers were passed over.

So much of space operations is pre-programmed; the important thing was to develop the processes and the standard procedures. These could be developed at liesure and usually in conjunction with experienced contractors. Beyond that was training, and, in our case at least, the ability to fly was meaningless. Yet, not being rated was career death. That was the second reason I got out after four years; didn't see a future in it.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I love my Marine brothers but the poor stepson schtick is mostly propaganda. The Marine Corps has an effective lobby in Congress and gets what they want. I have spent plenty of time around Marine forces and they are well resourced.
They're also singularly responsible for ruining most of the joint programmes with their pet asks, but I'll see myself out of that one to not derail the thread...
 
When I moved from MD to MA I just showed the MA DMV my MD Drivers License. Since I wasn't getting the Real ID (didn't want to pay the extra cost) I didn't have to show proof of Citizenship.

When I moved (back) to WA from OR IIRC I simply showed my Oregon driver's license. And CA to OR before that.

In MA, we don't have to show any ID to vote.

Nor to we in WA. Vote by mail makes that a touch difficult.
 
They're also singularly responsible for ruining most of the joint programmes with their pet asks, but I'll see myself out of that one to not derail the thread...

I suspect you haven't worked enough joint programs to see the myriad of ways to ruin the program. A skill not unique to the USMC.
 
Back to the original question, maybe it's because Co is about 3 times heavier than Al, and cost more than 10x as much. I'd make my spaceship out of Al, too. And now I'm wondering how many other states are elements.
 
Back to the original question, maybe it's because Co is about 3 times heavier than Al, and cost more than 10x as much. I'd make my spaceship out of Al, too. And now I'm wondering how many other states are elements.
This reminds me of a serious problem with upcoming space ships. When you read the old Science Fiction, everyone wears magnetic boots to let them walk on the hull.

But, of course, you need a big ol' dose of FE in your hull material to do this. That ain't gonna happen, for the foreseeable future. So space walks, or repairing meteor damage, or wiping the alien guts off the hull is going to be far more difficult.

Actually, space suits impede one's movement so badly that I doubt anyone would be able to use magnetic boots even if the hull was steel.

Ron Wanttaja
 
...

Actually, space suits impede one's movement so badly that I doubt anyone would be able to use magnetic boots even if the hull was steel.

Ron Wanttaja

I'm pretty sure folks are working on suits that allow better movement.
 
I'm pretty sure folks are working on suits that allow better movement.
I'm sure they've been working on that since Leonov's first spacewalk.

Take a long balloon and try to bend it in half. It takes an effort, and it springs back as soon as you quit trying to bend it. That's because the bending actually reduces the volume of the inside of the balloon, which increases the pressure, which tries to force the balloon straight again.

That's what happened to Leonov. He needed to bend at the waist to get back into the capsule, and the suit didn't want to bend under pressure. He had to let some air out of the suit to bend far enough. Story goes that Ed White, NASA's first space-walker, had to do the same thing, but apparently that wasn't the case.

The suits need constant-volume joints, which are difficult to achieve. You'll see attempts at them in various designs...
1758126250571.png
One way to combat the issue is to use low pressure in the suits, with 100% oxygen. Astronauts have to pre-breathe oxygen for hours before suiting up, which means that can't just pull on a suit at whim.

Ron Wanttaja
 
One way to combat the issue is to use low pressure in the suits, with 100% oxygen. Astronauts have to pre-breathe oxygen for hours before suiting up,

I assume the O2 pre-breathing is to prevent decompression sickness ("bends") by eliminating N2 from the blood, no? If using pure O2, pressure would need to be lower to prevent oxygen toxicity as well as making the joints work better. IIRC, O2 tox can become an issue with long-term exposure greater than half an atmosphere or so.

Much of the cave diving I've done was decompression diving. Long deco stops could be shortened by breathing O2, but it's only safe at shallower stops, and for long decos "air breaks" (breathing air instead of O2) were needed periodically.
 

I just came across this article.
Typical for journalism nowadays....or maybe it's just that my reading skills are declining...but I did not see any mention of a reason for the move?

Do any of you know?
Could be cost of living, which is 15% higher in Colorado Springs.

Could be proximity to the Huntsville space industry.
 
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