US Airways - I think I'm going to stroke out!

[gibbons]

[Rant ON]

We had a very bad experience with US Airways last night - flight supposed to be in at 9:16 pm, delayed due to mechanical, new arrival 10:45 pm. At 10:45 they announce the flight has diverted to Little Rock (3 hour drive) because of weather. Weather at the airport at the time - Wind 330/7, Temp 6, Dewpoint 3, Overcast ceiling 1,500', Visibility 10 miles.

During the time between 10:15 pm and 10:58 pm, five other flights arrives. There were no convective sigmets in our area. The only weather along the route of flight was behind them: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASH2871

US Airways says, "Bad weather, we don't owe you ****." They left our youth soccer team and four adults stranded at a closed down Little Rock airport. Four of us left here at 1:30 AM for the six hour round trip to pick the team to get them back here for school this morning. US Airways was planning to fly them back to Charlotte, then back to XNA (seems if they don't have a route between Little Rock and XNA they can't fly them back up here). After much swearing at the gate agent at XNA, and after reminding them there were 17 minors stranded at an airport in the middle of the night, we finally got US Airways to spring for hotel rooms for the girls until we could get down there to pick them up.

To add insult to injury, US Airways told me this morning that "The main FAA office made them divert to Little Rock." I asked customer service who was next on the list to call to complain and the lady told me there was no one else. Nick - In your honor I was disgustingly sweet to the customer service rep.

I don't believe there is any way that the flight was diverted for weather. Any airline types out there want to speculate as to why it might have actually been diverted? Anyone with any ideas on what I should do next to get US Airways attention?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Wow Chip, I hate to even mention it, but the only way I got any response in a cricumstance I thought was completely unreasonable when they went into butt cover mode was to have my attorney contact them. A veil of reason eventually appeared.

Perhaps someone can make a better suggestion, but that's where I wound up after a lot of tryin to be reasonable.

Best,

Dave

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Getting a printout of the WX for future letter writing use will help them come around...

 

[Missa]

Guess they didn't count on a pilot being among the people affected.

 

[Ghery]

Wind 330/7, Temp 6, Dewpoint 3, Overcast ceiling 1,500', Visibility 10 miles.

That's darned near VFR around here. As Missa noted, I don't think they like it when they're dealing with a pilot. May not be qualified to fly their planes, but I know when I'm being BSed.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I don't know what to tell you Chip. What I have figured out is that a gate agent usually can only tell you what they have been told. And the people telling them would just as soon lie when the truth actually sounds better.

I haven't seen that at a major but I saw that first hand at Great Lakes, a commuter for UAL. Doesn't do any good to argue, either.

But that story smells.

 

[Bill]

But that story smells.

I know there are multiple backup systems, etc., but is there any piece of equipment that could have gone OTS that would keep them from shooting an approach in those weather conditions?

 

[Earthroamer]

I know there are multiple backup systems, etc., but is there any piece of equipment that could have gone OTS that would keep them from shooting an approach in those weather conditions?

Everything would have to be out for them not to be able to shoot an approach with 1500 overcast at XNA. They sucked it up!

Brent Bradford

 

[Ande Elkins]

Chip,
I have $2900 of USAir stock they deemed worthless.
Not to mention the numerous delays/cancellations I've endured in my constant travels. As a previous shareholder prior to their wisdom of restructuring (and deeming all common stock worthless), I had suggested them allowing us to use the 'deemed stock' as a credit on future ticket purchases. No luck.. it appears that USAir appreciates new customers more than their prior customers (and stockholders).. I only fly USAir as a last option now..
On another note, I certainly hope the 'Hooters Airline' flying out of Myrtle Beach, SC makes a HUGE profit.. I'd like to see them grow.
Like their sign saya at the airport. "We have the hottest wings around"

 

[SkyHog]

To add insult to injury, US Airways told me this morning that "The main FAA office made them divert to Little Rock." I asked customer service who was next on the list to call to complain and the lady told me there was no one else. Nick - In your honor I was disgustingly sweet to the customer service rep.

forget that Chip. I only advocate being nice to the rep to a point. If they are not making sense, I'll get ****y with them too. At least you didn't make the mistake of assuming that you have a legal right to speak to their supervisor. You have a right to it as a person, and as a customer, but neither are required by the company.

Here's my suggestion to contribute to this thread:

Print off the TAF, METAR, and anything else you can get your hands on, even the prog charts. Write a letter explaining that you KNOW that weather didn't cause the problem. Mail both certified, and explain that you want an explanation or some form of compensation. I think that knowing they are dealing with someone who kows would help.

 

[gibbons]

Print off the TAF, METAR, and anything else you can get your hands on, even the prog charts. Write a letter explaining that you KNOW that weather didn't cause the problem. Mail both certified, and explain that you want an explanation or some form of compensation. I think that knowing they are dealing with someone who kows would help.

I printed everything off before I went to bed this morning. I also saved the html for each of the pages. I will write a letter and include the documentation, but does anyone know the correct person to send it to? Is there a government oversight group that keeps up with airline cancellations, etc?

One other thought I had was this. Every time I divert from my filed flight plan the controller asks me the reason. I wonder if they had that conversation with the pilot of the US Airways flight? Anybody got any ideas how one would go about getting their hands on that kind of information?

 

[astanley]

Wow Chip, I hate to even mention it, but the only way I got any response in a cricumstance I thought was completely unreasonable when they went into butt cover mode was to have my attorney contact them. A veil of reason eventually appeared.

Perhaps someone can make a better suggestion, but that's where I wound up after a lot of tryin to be reasonable.

Best,

Dave

I think Dave has hit it. Show what you have to a local attorney, especially an aviation attorney, maybe even give a call to the local FSDO or even the OI for USAirways. They may also have a customer ombudsman, the BBB and similar agencies may be able to help.

I think it would have taken all of my restraint not to have a nuclear melt down.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[SCCutler]

I printed everything off before I went to bed this morning. I also saved the html for each of the pages. I will write a letter and include the documentation, but does anyone know the correct person to send it to? Is there a government oversight group that keeps up with airline cancellations, etc?

One other thought I had was this. Every time I divert from my filed flight plan the controller asks me the reason. I wonder if they had that conversation with the pilot of the US Airways flight? Anybody got any ideas how one would go about getting their hands on that kind of information?

Chip, you can request audio copies of the tapes from pretty much any ATC facility. You may be able to derive the appropriate facility / sector by reviewing the locations in the track.

Chip, check IM.

 

[jesse]

Hm. I've only flown on an airliner once. I was pretty little, Don't really remember it.

All of the bad I read really does not make me jump at the oppurtunity. If it's within 3 states I'm flying. If it's not, I don't need to go there

 

[AdamZ]

I think Dave has hit it. Show what you have to a local attorney, especially an aviation attorney, maybe even give a call to the local FSDO or even the OI for USAirways. They may also have a customer ombudsman, the BBB and similar agencies may be able to help.

I think it would have taken all of my restraint not to have a nuclear melt down.

Cheers,

-Andrew

Chip as much as I love to support giving business to local attorneys I don't know if thats the way to go here. Ironically I have experience with this type of matter not so much as an attorney but as a big brother who took it to the mat with the Airlilne when they treated my sister like s*%t.
The first experience was when she was due to fly back to LaGuardia from CLT USAir told her they cancelled the flight b/c they had to close the runways at LGA. Lying SOBs little did the Airline know big brother was a pilot. a quick call to 800 WXBRIEF and I find out no closures at LGA all day. Heh take that you lying jerks. Then she had an horrible inflight experience having bought a first class ticket. I won't go into the situation but suffice it to say it was discusting and the Flight attendants couldn't give a shi%. She went to customer service and got no satisfaction. She did however get the name of everyone she spoke to.
I wrote a letter on her behalf telling them how much she flies etc and how disappointing their treatment and response to here were. I suggested a free ticket they gave her a $200 voucher toward a ticket.
You have to ask for what you want. Tell them I deserve or the girls deserve a free ticket or travel voucher. Tell them you have choices ie other airlines (even if you don't) and if they want your continued business they need to do something. Tell them this affected 16 families etc. By all means let them know you are a pilot and that you know what the weather was send them the METARS and Nexrad copies. The person who answers your letter probably won't know the difference between a METAR and a Parking METER but it will show them you can't be glossed over. IMHO I don't think anyother airline is any better. I have heard folks in the Cincinnati area complain about Delta ComAir to no end. Living in Philly about 60% of our flights are USAir , 25% SWA and the remainder all the rest. Personally I have had good expereinces with USAir . Good luck and btw I don't think the Gov't or FAA will do squat.

 

[EHITCH]

does anyone know the correct person to send it to?

Back in the days when corporate america gave some semblance of caring for its customers (circa 1985), I wrote a letter to the chairman of General Motors requesting they pay for a faulty transmission they knowingly installed in my Olds (mine and approximately 400,000 other cars in the class).
I explained in the letter that I had maintained the car impeccably, followed all the service requirements, intended to purchase perhaps 7-10 more new cars in the 50 years ahead, and that unless they coughed up $1200 for a new tranny there was no way on earth I was going to buy even ONE of those future cars from GM. I got a call from one of the chairman's assistants within 3 days and a check from GM within a week.
I found out later they had entered into binding arbitration with the BBB to provide transmission replacements to all owners of the X cars -- but only if the owner contacted them and asked. Rat b****rds. I'm sure they made out on the CBA.
Anyway -- write the chairman of the board and without emotion, explain clearly what you want. All contact info will be on their website under "investor information."
And finally, as you have found out -- if at ALL possible, never fly USAir. Last time I used them (and I do mean last, as I've used up my miles pretty much) our flight was delayed because one of their service trucks had run into (yes you read that right) the plane and tore off a section of the wing. According to the flight attendant who cooled her heels at PHL for 2 hours while they switched out equipment to fly to ORD and then fly back to PHL. And the punchline is: my connection at PHL was also 90 minutes late, so I actually made it!!!!!!!!!!!
Elizabeth

 

[Doug R]

Chip,

Regarding the weather last night. I spent 8.3 hobbs hours
flying around the country last night...from Mitchell SD to Nashville to Pine Bluff Ar to Siloam Springs to Mitchell(again)to Nevada Mo. to Siloam Springs. Not one time did we have to shoot an approach. The worst of the weather at Siloam (just a few miles from XNA) was around 4:00pm with ceilings around 1,000 broken to scattered. Was able to get a visual into SLG at that time and the night return to SLG was clear with scattered layers at around the time you guys were to land yest evening. In fact I was able to see XNA 20 miles out (north) once we were below a thin layer. Thats a bunch of bull. I ensure you all 121,135,and part 91 approach and vfr min requirements were met and not even close to being an issue. If they question your information I'll be a personal alibi stating that the weather was not an issue regarding any operation at that time. And the 121 operators wonder why they are hemorrhaging cash on a daily basis.

 

[etsisk]

Chip,On another note, I certainly hope the 'Hooters Airline' flying out of Myrtle Beach, SC makes a HUGE profit.. I'd like to see them grow.Like their sign saya at the airport. "We have the hottest wings around"

Yeah, but I just read that they are pulling out of (I think) Rockford airport because business was (I'm not making this up) "sagging" and that "Hooters was being squeezed out".

Ya just can't make this stuff up, folks!

 

[gibbons]

and that "Hooters was being squeezed out".

Ya just can't make this stuff up, folks!

Wouldn't that be "were being squeezed out?"

Thanks everyone for the great input. The first round went to US Airways, but I'm not down yet! Keep the suggestions coming.

Chip

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Sorry: I did try the stuff Adam suggested first in my ordeal. Didn't get anywhere. Expained what happened, what I did to try to correct, asked for free travel or cash compensation. No luck. That's when I went to my attorney.
In the case of minors being involved, I'd sure focus on that and assurance they were supervised by an adult 12/7 while in ailine care (and the credentials of that person). I actually know someone that called Child Protective Services in an instance like this (this was a minor that was to be accompanied and was sent to the wrong airport.) Man, the fur flew!!

Best,

Dave

 

[AdamZ]

I hear ya Dave, perhaps it worked for me becasue I have Esq. after my name. Shouldn't make a difference but it does, sigh. Sad fact is in the instance of a single ticket you may pay the attorney as much as you get back in vouchers. Best bet is if you have a family member or good friend thats an attorney and will fire off a letter for free.
A similar but more disgusting story: My brother and his family took a trip to Baltimore and were staying at a Marriot Residence Inn on the day they were checking out my nephew then about 2 was playing on the floor and picked up a condom that was lying just under the bed. By brother went Ape Shi%. Went to the front desk to speak with the manager and house keeping. Their response "sorry bout that" My brother expressed concern about the cleanlieness of the rooms and obviously was concerned that his son could have been exposed to a communicable disease. The hotels response why don't you take him to the Dr and get him checked. GRrrrrrrrr.
The HQ was similarly unresponsive. You can *****, yell ,scream and even sue but you just can't make people care and thats all most of us want anyway.
Another story: Went to a friends wedding in Miami. I dictated a tape with contracts on the flight down from Philly. Tape HAD to be in my office by monday. So Friday when I check in I put the tape in a pre-addressed UPS overnight envelope and look up the nearest drop box on the computer. I ask the front desk where it is. They tell me The bell captain takes care of all business overnite stuff UPS, Fed Ex etc. Bell captain says NO PROBLEM SIR you don't have to walk the 10 blocks, I'll send your package out with the hotels packeages when UPS does their dailypick up at 6pm.
Monday night my secreatry calls and says where is the UPS package with the tape. I call UPS and track it they say no such tracking # in the system. Long short is They NEVER sent the *&$% package out. The schmuck left it on a desk. Took the manager 2 days to find it. I even tipped the guy Grrrr. Radissons response whats the problem it eventually got there. NO respect for my time requirment. No Service. And this my fellow boarders is why a company that give exceptional customer service ie Lightspeed certain FBOs will be praised ,referred to others and succeed above the rest of the pack. Sorry for the RANT

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Well, my approach is always to explain what happened as nicely as I can and ask that corrective action be taken. If they aren't responsive, my next question is, does there have to be immediate action--like a minor unaccompanied being cared for, or do I need access to a phone to notify someone. If it can wait, I carefully document what occurred as best I can, then communicate later. If it can't wait, I can be a real pain in the butt until some reasonable action is taken.

When I do correspond, it's to the chief executive officer with copies to every regulatory agency or ancillary agency I can think of (like the BBB, chamber of commerce, mayor of the city etc). I've gotten some very prompt responses in that manner and folks of good reputation were quite taken back I would embarrass them in that manner---imagine. Even notified a securities firm once when I knew they were underwriting the company--pretty dastardly, huh.

Next step was legal council with the entire written trail. Yes, it did cost me something, and the airline had corporate council. When their attorney saw what happened, saw the documentation and the letter from my attorney, everything changed.

I've only had to actually file suit once; didn't get to trial. Party to a contract reneged. We had to take action to protect a large transaction of which this was an integral part. Of course, this is the manner in which civilized parties settle matters. At one time in my life, you may not have considered me to be civil ;-

There are times when you must be someone of consequence or you don't matter. Normally, I don't mind, but there are times when I do mind and will dedicate the time and resources necessary to make the other party mind.

Best,

Dave

 

[Anthony]

Of course, this is the manner in which civilized parties settle matters. At one time in my life, you may not have considered me to be civil ;-

Well Dave, I would definitely rather have you on MY side.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

You sound like you have a good feel for things!! One needs an advocate who can take on a challenge when necessary, but council the client on the pros, cons and costs associated with actions taken. Those of us that are successful, continue to grow and improve; you sound like you're headed in that direction.

Lookin forward to meetin you at Gastons!!

Best,

Dave

 

[poadeleted3]

snip
On another note, I certainly hope the 'Hooters Airline' flying out of Myrtle Beach, SC makes a HUGE profit.. I'd like to see them grow.
snip"

Gotta be a Hooters PR rep around that could find reason to issue a press release with that headline:

"Local man wants to see Hooters grow"

 

[Dave Siciliano]

May I point out a recent development with another airline?

======================================================

Aviation Lawyer, Bumped From Flight, Makes Airline Pay
Awarded $3,100 In Damages In Breach-Of-Contract Suit

In hindsight,
Continental Airlines probably wishes it had bumped someone
else -- anyone else-- off a Christmas 2004 flight
from Newark, NJ to Telluride, CO. Instead, the airline bumped
Thatcher A. Stone and his daughter from the overbooked plane.

Big mistake, as Stone is a New York-based aviation attorney,
according to the Washington Post, as well as a University of
Virginia law professor. After sending Continental two complaint
letters asking for greater financial compensation that just the
cost of the tickets, Stone sued the airline in small claims court
over breach of contract.

(Quick show of hands: who didn't see that one coming?)

The incident began last year, when Stone and his 13-year-old
daughter, Rebecca, were heading to Telluride for a week-long ski
trip. They checked their luggage and skis, and proceeded to their
gate -- but as the flight was boarding, Stone and his daughter were
told to step aside.

They had been bumped, as no amount of free drink coupons or
travel vouchers could convince two other passengers to give up
their seats on the overbooked -- as many holiday flights are --
airliner. When that happens, airlines are allowed to bump
passengers without their consent.

While Stone was eligible for a $400 reimbursement under federal
law -- as the airline was unable to find the two another flight out
until two days later -- that amount was hardly enough. According to
Stone, he was out $1,350 alone on the non-refundable lodging
deposit.

And to make matters worse... remember those checked bags and
skis? Yep, they made it to Colorado, making it impossible for Stone
to book an alternative ski trip elsewhere -- he and his daughter
had no winter clothing.

Continental refunded the $2,000 cost of the two airline tickets,
according to the Post. Stone maintained, however, the
loss cost him much more than that, and the lawyer sent two
letters demanding that Continental reimburse him for the deposits
on the ski lodge, lift tickets, and equipment rental, as well as
compensation for the lost luggage.

Continental offered an additional $800; in response, Stone sued
the airline, and a jury awarded him $3,100 for his trouble -- not a
typical result in such cases.

What made the difference, according to Manhattan Civil Court
Judge Diane A. Lebedeff, was that Stone sued Continental not for
fraud, but for breach of contract -- which is allowed under New
York law if the passenger bought a ticket, was denied boarding,
refused the airline's compensation offer and suffered
damages.

"It is well settled that an award for inconvenience, delay and
uncertainty is cognizable under New York law," Lebedeff wrote in
her 13-page ruling. Lebedeff ruled that Continental failed to offer
any compensation to Stone in writing, which was required by
law.

In the end, Stone was
awarded $1,360 for the non-refundable lodging expenses, $1,000 for
his delay and $750 for the loss of the use of the contents in his
luggage. The judge also added interest to the monetary awards from
Dec. 25, the date of the bumping.

Continental spokesman David Messing declined to comment on
whether the airline planned to appeal the ruling -- but he did
maintain the airline acted within the letter of the law.

"We are always sorry when this happens, but the Department of
Transportation allows overbooking of flights because so many
airline customers book flights and then do not show up without
previously canceling," Messing said in a statement. "If an oversale
occurs, we try to offer alternative flights, refund the ticket,
help make other arrangements, or offer some form of denied boarding
compensation, but that is not always acceptable to the
customer."

While it remains unclear if his case will set a precedent
allowing passengers to sue if they get bumped from a flight, Stone
urges all passengers to be aware of their rights whenever they fly
on a commercial airline.

"Figure out your costs, put all of that together in a letter,
and send it to the airline," the attorney said. "If they tell you
no, go to small claims court, where you can fight them
yourself."

"They were betting that Thatcher Stone was some ignorant [jerk]
who didn't know how to get money out of Continental," Stone added.
"They picked the wrong guy."