UI fails

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by GeorgeC, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route

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    IMG_2359.jpg
     
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  2. ElPaso Pilot

    ElPaso Pilot Pattern Altitude

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    [​IMG]

    Plus

    [​IMG]

    Plus

    [​IMG]

    Equals

    [​IMG]
     
  3. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    I may be slow, but I don’t see the issue.

    If that’s pull the knob up for off, and it’s on the floor, it seems to make sense. Accidentally hitting it would keep the fuel flowing.

    Or am I missing something.
     
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  4. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Pattern Altitude

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    at a glance, in need, you're going to see the word 'ON' or 'OFF' and flip the switch the wrong way
     
  5. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    I was assuming this was floor mounted, so UP and DOWN are pretty clear.

    Panel mounted, it could be confusing, I guess.

    Is it a toggle or a Push-Pull?
     
  6. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Looks like it's push-pull and floor mounted. Would make since with a wider shot I'm thinking.
     
  7. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Some of the devs at our company like coding up things with weird a double negatives

    They'll have a radio button for
    "Disable background check requirement"
    instead of
    "Require background check"
     
  8. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    I like how they use an equal sign as a verb, but then they cut and stitch right through it, so that you can't see it's there.

    Screen Shot 2020-07-30 at 8.26.00 PM.png
     
  9. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Back in college, our Human Factors Engineering class had a very interesting discussion on "what is on/off?" when presented with an unlabeled control.

    The prof's lead off question was to hold his ball point pen pointed level at us and asked, "This pen represents the control to turn the machine on or off. Which movement accomplishes that?"

    Answers could have been twist, push/pull, move vertical, move horizontal, etc.

    Real answer was "it depends on design and placement". But also brought to focus that the social expectation associated with the function of the device or function/feature must be taken into account when designing which way to move the switch.

    We then moved on to application of this topic which included aircraft, automobiles, and machinery we might find in a factory.

    In the automobile world, another classic switch design faux pas is the wiper control. Especially when you rent an unfamiliar vehicle at the airport.
    • Where is it located? On the center console, dash, or steering column stalk?
    • Is it on the left side or the right side?
    • Do you twist something, push something, pull something?
    • And the errors involved.... wanted wipers but instead engaged cruise control, honked horn, extinguished headlights, etc.
     
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  10. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    You mean like in my Ford Escape, I move the lever down to switch the wipers on or increase their speed, whereas in my wife’s Ford Escape, the lever goes up to switch the wipers on or increase their speed?
     
  11. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

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    In the plane I flew in the Air Force, on the yoke there was a rocker switch that controlled radio/interphone transmissions. Pressing on the upper half of the switch would transmit to the crew on interphone and the bottom half would transmit on the radio.

    The plane I fly now has the function reversed. Upper half for radio and bottom half for interphone. The planes are both Boeings, so at some point, there was a conscious decision made to switch the function of the switch. Why? I don't know. I've mostly gotten used to it, but sometimes if I'm in a hurry trying to do a couple things at once, I'll revert to primacy and talk using the wrong half of the switch. It's annoying.
     
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  12. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    I used to be in a volunteer firefighter, both industrial at work and municipal at home. I lived and breathed it.

    All of the pumper trucks I used to work with had vernier throttle control at the pump panel. You twist out counter-clockwise to increase the rpm which increases the pump speed which increases the water pressure. If you need to kill rpm in a hurry you push the center knob in.

    Fast forward to my first hours of flight training 15 years later. When things got hectic in the cockpit, primacy took over. I would push on the throttle to reduce power and pull to increase it. Stupid plane!
     
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  13. nauga

    nauga Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    The canopy latch handle on my airplane is forward to open, aft to latch. Built to plans, but seems completely backwards to me. I had a CANOPY UNLOCK light in flight on one occasion and had to 'wind the clock' a bit and make a concerted effort grab the handle and pull BACK to reset the latch. I will be rerigging it to change the direction soon.

    Nauga,
    whose comms mnemonic was 'up is out and down is aft'
     
  14. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    It’s probably a military vs civilian spec thing...the overhead panel in one of the airplanes I fly reverses the switch operation from military to civilian. On the military version, forward is on, aft is off. On the civilian version, up is on, down is off. Civilian “up” is military “aft”.
     
  15. Spring Ford

    Spring Ford Pre-takeoff checklist

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    O at least some airbus switch orientation is a customer option. See the toggle switches on the Ext LT panel at bottom, left of center, where on and off are labeled.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  16. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I rented cars in Australia. The wipers would go on when I needed to make a right turn.
     
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  17. Bacho

    Bacho Pre-takeoff checklist

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    :D
    I had that same struggle in training. CFI was not a farm boy and bot impressed. :D
     
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  18. Seanaldinho

    Seanaldinho Pattern Altitude

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    Developers can only think in "default" and "why would you want this configurable"

    UI is something we will never master as it is different person to person, industry to industry, and culture to culture. Having said that, I spend a lot of time in UI discussions and generally enjoy it as it makes you think about all the wacky things people will do with whatever you create.
     
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  19. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    The UI fails that bug me the most are faucets and showers.

    The original design with one knob marked with a red “H” and the other with a blue “C” was close to the ideal in clarity and simplicity. Now, getting into a shower at a motel can devolve into an IQ test where the penalty for getting it wrong can mean getting scalded. GRRRRRR!

    NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
     
  20. NHWannabe

    NHWannabe Line Up and Wait

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  21. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    In the actual airplane there is absolutely zero chance of getting this wrong or misinterpreting anything about it. That’s the fuel valve in an RV-12. You push the ball down (as shown in the picture) for ON, and pull it straight up about two inches for OFF. Just like the label says. There is no fore/aft movement.

    It’s certainly not a “UI fail”. Sorry to disappoint.
     
  22. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Nice and concise. Agreed.
     
  23. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sot it's Push/On and Pull/Off like throttle, mixture, carb heat ( :) ), ... ?
     
  24. Warlock

    Warlock Cleared for Takeoff

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    Most pilots can jump in a tractor and use a front end loader or back hoe quickly with little training as the controls make sense...there is a reason for that.
     
  25. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    But not on a sled!
     
  26. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Its a push/pull switch. If you're able to flip it in any direction, you've got bigger problems to worry about than how someone choose to word that label.
     
  27. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    I build drag cars for 25 years. Need an emergency kill switch on the exterior of the vehicle (there I go again, firefighter crap). NHRA and IHRA rules require a PUSH-OFF knob.

    “Not a UI fail” is the equivalent of a hazardous attitude in the UI world lol. I’m keepin’ it light Dale, just joshin’ ya. :p
     
  28. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    As I said before, if floor mounted Push for Off means inadvertently stepping on it or hitting it would turn the fuel off. Not good.

    Not so much poor UI as poor labeling in my Sky Arrow:

    Fuel ON:

    [​IMG]

    Fuel OFF:

    [​IMG]

    Admittedly, it usually only gets turned off at annual inspection to make sure it works.
     
  29. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    I think the issue is the way the picture in the original post is oriented - if you don't know how it's actually mounted and viewed from the perspective of someone looking at it in a cockpit, I can see how it'd be confusing.
     
  30. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    So it's a UI fail fail.
     
  31. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    There was a cool video posted by "smarter every day" relating to this and how "it's like riding a bike" is actually not that true

    He taught himself to ride a bike with a "reverse" handle bar.. it took him 8 months of daily practice.. after which he couldn't ride a normal bike again. His kid on the other hand, was able to pick both up much more easily

     
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  32. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I heard an interesting talk (maybe a TED talk, not sure) on these kinds of things as form design with an agenda driven outcome. The example was how many people sign up as organ donors depending on whether the default is yes or no. Two otherwise nearly demographically identical EU countries (Maybe Denmark and Norway?) have percentages almost exactly reversed (one has 15% sign up, default is no, the other has 80-85% sign up default is yes) based on the default selection. The argument was that form designers (and face it, now software developers are the form designers since everything is moving online) influence those choices and can shape the world.

    As a career software engineer, I find that frightening.
     
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  33. Seanaldinho

    Seanaldinho Pattern Altitude

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    He makes very neat stuff and relates it well.

    The part about his kid speaks a lot to how much more malleable we are when we are young. Its similar to learning a second language as a child, it makes other languages even easier as you don't think of language as linearly or as having only one set of rules.
     
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  34. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    and he is humble, and just seems genuinely interested and curious about the stuff he makes videos about..
     
  35. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Oh it definitely is.. having to make choices generally gives people anxiety so they tend to just leave the default selections alone..
     
  36. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

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    The most annoying one currently is the differences between car shift levers...

    My Subaru has Drive all the way back and Manual is a shift to left from Drive. The government vehicles I drive has Drive second to last and Manual directly in line all the way back. So 99% of the time after reversing, I just throw the shift lever all the way back to the stop while in the g car. I then realize that I’m pulling 5000 RPM trying to go above 15MPH due to the blasted thing being in manual.

    The most annoying to others is the CRJ Stab Trim vs the ERJ. The ERJ disables the trim if you press and hold longer then 3 seconds. So you end up doing a lot of short clicks for large movements. The CRJ doesn’t have this feature. Well I learned on the ERJ first, so when I switched to the CRJ I drove Captains nuts with my nonstop short clicks of the trim. I finally had one reach over and grab my hand while yelling “for the love of god STOP”.
     
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  37. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    After using something like this in a hotel, I'm adding one of these in my bathroom remodel. I'm just not entirely sure the buttons are intuitive enough. Push on and it pops out, push again and it turns off but then you can also turn the outside to adjust the flow. On the plus side I never have any guests so it probably won't matter.
    ZZH_T29121C10_000_01.jpg
     
  38. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Pattern Altitude

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    oh weird, my plane has those. they say things like 'pull' instead of 'up/down' 'in/out', 'noseward/empennageward' etc.

    The photo looked like a flip/toggle switch to me.
     
  39. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I see it says "38" - I assume that's Celsius.. does this thing actually digitally modulate a set temperature for the water?
     
  40. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I honestly hate how "smart" cars have gotten. If I want it hotter or more air I should not have to click through three different menu options in order to do this

    I really miss analog controls. One more reason I plan to keep my FJ forever. For climate I can readily dictate how hard I want it, how hot I want it, and where I want it

    It has XM and Bluetooth.. that's all I will ever need any way. The inbuilt nav systems in cars are a disasterous mess.. Google Maps on the phone mount is all I need if I am going somewhere unfamiliar.

    We recently got a really nice nearly brand-new Mercedes as a crew car.. two smart(?) pilots could not figure out how to use the nav or input a destination. Total piece of steaming hot trash.. I don't care how much leather there is it made me never want to own a Mercedes