Ubuntu Blows

[Henning]

The airport lounge in Bali is set up with computers on Ubuntu with Firefox, what a Charlie Foxtrot of not working crap. I see why geeks like it, you need a mastery of compudom to make the crap work and you can brag when you actually make something work the way it does box stock on a Microsoft machine, even though you can't make quite all the content on a website work. What a waste of time. "But it's free!!!" Yeah, and it's worth every freaking dime.

 

[mantakos]

What doesn't work?

I've never bothered with Ubuntu, but I've spent a bunch of years sitting in front of a Debian box. There is very little web content that isn't accessible, and you generally don't encounter it on the well-known sites.

But a Linux box requires more care and feeding than a Windows box, and that expertise is less common.
-harry

 

[Everskyward]

I installed Ubuntu on a computer as an experiment because I had trashed the hard drive and didn't have a recovery disk. It automatically installs Firefox which works fine, however, the selection of other programs seems small and it was impossible for me to install any Windows based programs. I know there are workarounds for things but they all involve changing lines of code. When I read the troubleshooting forums the instructions are incomprehensible to me. My impression is that Ubuntu is fine if all you want to do is access the internet or you like tinkering with your computer, but I don't.

 

[jesse]

I installed Ubuntu on a computer as an experiment because I had trashed the hard drive and didn't have a recovery disk. It automatically installs Firefox which works fine, however, the selection of other programs seems small and it was impossible for me to install any Windows based programs. I know there are workarounds for things but they all involve changing lines of code. When I read the troubleshooting forums the instructions are incomprehensible to me. My impression is that Ubuntu is fine if all you want to do is access the internet or you like tinkering with your computer, but I don't.

To be just as fair - it's pretty damn difficult to get a lot of Linux software to properly run on Windows. They're different platforms.

 

[Bob Noel]

ok, I'll say it...

Get a mac.






I figured I'd just go ahead and get it out of the way.

 

[murphey]

To be just as fair - it's pretty damn difficult to get a lot of Linux software to properly run on Windows. They're different platforms.

Perhaps a better analogy is driving on the left vs on the right. Wheels, engine, controls, etc all similar but you need to get used to the differences. If you've never driven in England or OZ and are plopped down there with no warning, it takes time to learn not to be dangerous.

 

[mantakos]

Perhaps a better analogy is driving on the left vs on the right. Wheels, engine, controls, etc all similar but you need to get used to the differences...

It's easy for us to forget how much of what we know about "how computers work" is really "how MS Windows works". When confronted with a new OS, we use all our "computer knowledge", much of which is really "MS Windows knowledge", and we find that a lot of that knowledge doesn't work right on this new computer. Stupid computer! We decry all the effort that must go into learning how this new stupid computer works, but we forget how much time we invested into learning how MS Windows worked, too.

All that said, it's perfectly rational to say "I invested all that time learning how Windows works, which is a reason in favor of continuing to use Windows instead of something different".
-harry

 

[Maxmosbey]

I use both windows and linux. The computer that I am using right now has a partitioned hard drive with ubuntu on one side and windows on the other. Right now I am using the windows side. As far as surfing the net, there isn't much difference if you are using firefox. I agree, linux is not for everyone. I don't think it is crap though. I get along very well with the ubuntu netbook re-mix. As far as running windows programs, there isn't any that I really need to run, that can't be replaced by an open source program. My thing with linux in general is that I control everything. I do not like Windows giving me everything that they think I should have, then trying to sell me everything that I think I want. With linux I pick and choose.

 

[Steve Foley]

I like Ubuntu because, no matter what my kids do to it, I'm only 15 minutes away from a freshly installed system.

 

[alaskaflyer]

iTunes. 'nuff said.

 

[RJM62]

The airport lounge in Bali is set up with computers on Ubuntu with Firefox, what a Charlie Foxtrot of not working crap. I see why geeks like it, you need a mastery of compudom to make the crap work and you can brag when you actually make something work the way it does box stock on a Microsoft machine, even though you can't make quite all the content on a website work. What a waste of time.

...

Gee, that's surprising. My 6-year-old nephew, half a dozen nieces ages 5 through 12, my blue-haired, elderly mother, and the rest of her old biddy friends, seem to have no issues at all with Ubuntu.

Could have been a bad installation at the lounge, I guess, because surely it couldn't have been a user issue, right?

As for not being able to easily run Windows programs on Linux, that's like saying that Cessna makes horrible airplanes because you can use Cirrus parts in them. Windows and Linux are two entirely different systems. Some stuff can be made to work cross-platform, some can't, and some isn't worth the bother.

-Rich

 

[sba55]

It works fine. However - and just like with Windows - it has to be set up correctly and you have to have a clue how to use it. One of those conditions is obviously not met here...

 

[EdFred]

Problem with Ubuntu: They don't even have basic drivers. Wouldn't even recognize a NIC. Sorta hard to d/l anything, when you can't even connect to the LAN/Web.

 

[Steve Foley]

Problem with Ubuntu: They don't even have basic drivers. Wouldn't even recognize a NIC. Sorta hard to d/l anything, when you can't even connect to the LAN/Web.

That's a problem I've have more frequently with Windows that Ubuntu. Part of the issue is that I'm usually trying to load XP on a machine that's newer than the XP distribution, where the Ubuntu distribution is usually only a few weeks old.

 

[jesse]

Problem with Ubuntu: They don't even have basic drivers. Wouldn't even recognize a NIC. Sorta hard to d/l anything, when you can't even connect to the LAN/Web.

I've found that to be a much larger issue in the Windows world then in the Linux world. The kernel natively has a whole crap ton more of drivers then Windows does. I can install Linux and have a server up and running without much effort in minutes. Installing Windows Server 200x and loading all the drivers for whatever hardware is an ordeal.

 

[RJM62]

I've found that to be a much larger issue in the Windows world then in the Linux world. The kernel natively has a whole crap ton more of drivers then Windows does. I can install Linux and have a server up and running without much effort in minutes. Installing Windows Server 200x and loading all the drivers for whatever hardware is an ordeal.

Very true. I was installing Ubuntu on a duel-boot machine (a desktop, not a server) at my brother's house yesterday. The basic installation took me about ten minutes, excluding the time needed to resize the NTFS partition.

With the exception of the WLAN card, all of the hardware was detected and configured automatically. The Netgear WG311 wireless adapter isn't supported in Linux, but worked perfectly using ndiswrapper, on a WPA2 WLAN.

Once the basic installation was done, I had to connect his network multifunction printer, a brand-new HP OfficeJet something-or-other (I forget the exact model numnber) only about two or three months old.

In Ubuntu, I pointed the "Add Printer" dialogue at the printer's IP address, and it automatically downloaded and installed the driver in less than two minutes. In Windows, the driver took me 45 minutes to install because I couldn't extract the driver alone from HP's crapware disk, so I had to run through the whole installation, de-selecting all the junk I didn't want -- which it installed anyway.

The horrors of Linux hardware configuration are a myth. Maybe 10 years ago they were true, but not any more.

-Rich

 

[murphey]

I use both windows and linux. The computer that I am using right now has a partitioned hard drive with ubuntu on one side and windows on the other. Right now I am using the windows side. As far as surfing the net, there isn't much difference if you are using firefox. I agree, linux is not for everyone. I don't think it is crap though. I get along very well with the ubuntu netbook re-mix. As far as running windows programs, there isn't any that I really need to run, that can't be replaced by an open source program. My thing with linux in general is that I control everything. I do not like Windows giving me everything that they think I should have, then trying to sell me everything that I think I want. With linux I pick and choose.

OMG - we have a new candidate for the religious high-wing/low-wing debate! Windows vs Unix/Linux!!! (Mac no longer counts, it's Unix but on an Intel chip, so you can have the best of all worlds....)

 

[murphey]

Very true. I was installing Ubuntu on a duel-boot machine (a desktop, not a server) at my brother's house yesterday. The basic installation took me about ten minutes, excluding the time needed to resize the NTFS partition.

With the exception of the WLAN card, all of the hardware was detected and configured automatically. The Netgear WG311 wireless adapter isn't supported in Linux, but worked perfectly using ndiswrapper, on a WPA2 WLAN.


-Rich

Should I be worried?...I understood every word.

 

[Steve Foley]

OMG - we have a new candidate for the religious high-wing/low-wing debate! Windows vs Unix/Linux!!! (Mac no longer counts, it's Unix but on an Intel chip, so you can have the best of all worlds....)

It's not a new candidate for the geeks. In fact, the war has been raging for years.

 

[murphey]

It's not a new candidate for the geeks. In fact, the war has been raging for years.

I meant here. Years ago (when I was teaching CS at a local university) the introductory slide read something like:

Rules of Engagement
1) Drop the class now and get your money back
2) There are no religious discussions
3) Windows v Unix v Mac is a religious discussion

And I still treasure my 1978 edition of "Bell System Technical Journal" in which Unix was first announced. The writers: Ritchie, Bourne, Thompson, and Kernighan among others...And if you know any/all of these names...you've been doing this far too long.

 

[gprellwitz]

I meant here. Years ago (when I was teaching CS at a local university) the introductory slide read something like:

Rules of Engagement
1) Drop the class now and get your money back
2) There are no religious discussions
3) Windows v Unix v Mac is a religious discussion

And I still treasure my 1978 edition of "Bell System Technical Journal" in which Unix was first announced. The writers: Ritchie, Bourne, Thompson, and Kernighan among others...And if you know any/all of these names...you've been doing this far too long.

Instead, let's debate emacs/vi!

I still remember trying to learn C by reading Kernighan and Ritchie! Not for the faint of heart!

 

[Areeda]

My laptop is dual boot Ubuntu/Win7. I only use Windows to run Jepp software and test things.

My biggest problem is figuring out how to get windows to give more than half the disk. It uses about 40GB for everything installed and won't shrink it's partition below 250GB.

If you have trouble viewing websites use Chrome. It will display any content I've run into including every friggin type of ad devised.

Joe

 

[Ghery]

And I still treasure my 1978 edition of "Bell System Technical Journal" in which Unix was first announced. The writers: Ritchie, Bourne, Thompson, and Kernighan among others...And if you know any/all of these names...you've been doing this far too long.

Newcomers. Been playing with computers since 1969.

I still remember trying to learn C by reading Kernighan and Ritchie! Not for the faint of heart!

I think I have a copy of that book at home. And you are correct.

 

[Steve Foley]

Newcomers. Been playing with computers since 1969.

I think 1969 was the year I got Incredible Edibles for Christmas, or maybe the Electro-Shot Shooting Gallery (by Marxx). No silicon in either.

 

[Everskyward]

As far as running windows programs, there isn't any that I really need to run, that can't be replaced by an open source program.

My problem is that many of the programs I normally use are Windows programs; Quicken, logbook program, Cessna performance and loading calculators, Jeppview, etc.

My thing with linux in general is that I control everything.

But I don't want to be bothered with controlling everything. I want to turn the computer on and have it work. Maybe I should buy a Mac.

I don't mind my computer with the Ubuntu setup. It's better than having a brick. I just wouldn't want that to be my only computer.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Newcomers. Been playing with computers since 1969.

Got me beat. In 1969 I was still using my Pickett model N-100-ES log/log slide rule.

 

[EdFred]

That's a problem I've have more frequently with Windows that Ubuntu. Part of the issue is that I'm usually trying to load XP on a machine that's newer than the XP distribution, where the Ubuntu distribution is usually only a few weeks old.

I've found that to be a much larger issue in the Windows world then in the Linux world. The kernel natively has a whole crap ton more of drivers then Windows does. I can install Linux and have a server up and running without much effort in minutes. Installing Windows Server 200x and loading all the drivers for whatever hardware is an ordeal.

I have never had Windows 98, XP, or 7 (never did an me or 2000 install) not provide me with something as simple as a network driver with the install package. Sound, sure. Video, sure. DVD, sure. But at least I could connect to a network, or the internet to download the video, audio, or whatever I needed. How in name of Zeus's butthole am I supposed to connect to internet to download a driver, when not provided with said driver needed to connect to the internet? Most. Retarded. Install. Package. Ever. Oh yeah, tried like 3 different cards too. None were recognize.

They should call it suckbuntu.

 

[mantakos]

... They should call it suckbuntu.

I have to echo what others have said, driver availability at install-time is a far greater problem in the Windows world, where it's not uncommon to require a drivers disk from the hardware vendor to complement the stock MS Windows media.

Rest assured that Ubuntu has a crapload of drivers for network cards.
-harry

 

[Steve Foley]

My problem is that many of the programs I normally use are Windows programs; Quicken, logbook program, Cessna performance and loading calculators, Jeppview, etc.

But I don't want to be bothered with controlling everything. I want to turn the computer on and have it work. Maybe I should buy a Mac.

I don't mind my computer with the Ubuntu setup. It's better than having a brick. I just wouldn't want that to be my only computer.

Ummm.... You realize that your current versions of Quicken, logbook program, Cessna performance and loading calculators, Jeppview, etc won't run on a Mac either.

 

[Everskyward]

Ummm.... You realize that your current versions of Quicken, logbook program, Cessna performance and loading calculators, Jeppview, etc won't run on a Mac either.

I was really only kidding about the Mac...

 

[Steve Foley]

I was really only kidding about the Mac...

Sorry, forgot the smiley.

 

[jesse]

I have never had Windows 98, XP, or 7 (never did an me or 2000 install) not provide me with something as simple as a network driver with the install package. Sound, sure. Video, sure. DVD, sure. But at least I could connect to a network, or the internet to download the video, audio, or whatever I needed. How in name of Zeus's butthole am I supposed to connect to internet to download a driver, when not provided with said driver needed to connect to the internet? Most. Retarded. Install. Package. Ever. Oh yeah, tried like 3 different cards too. None were recognize.

They should call it suckbuntu.

I have had *plenty* of network cards in Windows that haven't worked without drivers. Countless times across all versions and still continues to be an issue this day. I have a whole bunch of IBM LS20 blades with common Broadcom chipsets that aren't detected in Windows but work flawlessly in Linux. I have had more network cards NOT work out of box then work and I've installed Windows thousands of times across thousands of machines. Maybe even tens of thousands.

Ubuntu's driver support really comes down to what is available in the Linux kernel. Taking extremist views about something you barely understand looks pretty silly Ed.

I really can't think of an instance where I've ran into a NIC not supported in Linux in the last 5 years. Wireless cards are a whole different matter.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Instead, let's debate emacs/vi!

Ugh. You have to be funny in the head to like vi (ahem, Jesse. LOL)

I like emacs, even if it does stand for Eighty Megs And Constantly Swapping.

I still remember trying to learn C by reading Kernighan and Ritchie! Not for the faint of heart!

I had a Kernighan and Ritchie book for C++. I was originally really pi$$ed because it cost nearly $100 and was about the size of a pamphlet, but by the end of the class I was OK with it because it was one of the most valuable books (in terms of content and usefulness, not dollars per page ) that I ever had.

I also had a Bourne book. So that's 3 for 4 on the names mentioned above...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My problem is that many of the programs I normally use are Windows programs; Quicken, logbook program, Cessna performance and loading calculators, Jeppview, etc.

But I don't want to be bothered with controlling everything. I want to turn the computer on and have it work. Maybe I should buy a Mac.

I know you're joking, but...

While it's possible, I wouldn't really recommend it.

1) You can get Quicken on the Mac, though I think Intuit will happily take your money again for the Mac copy rather than offer a cross-grade

2) You can get a logbook program on the Mac - But presumably you're using Logbook Pro which isn't supported on the Mac and you'd have to buy LogTen Pro, export your data from LogBook Pro, and import it into LogTen. That's a helluva lot easier than entering your data again by hand, but you won't be any better off than you were. Or, you could run Logbook Pro in Parallels or VMWare...

3) I don't know if the Cessna software is available on the Mac, but I doubt it. Also, JeppView is NOT available on the Mac last I checked (though they do have iPad software out, so maybe they'll port it eventually). So, if you had a Mac you'd have to run all of that software inside VMWare or Parallels.

So, in your case, with the majority of your software using Windows and you as a Windows user, it's probably not worth the expense of switching, unless the expense and time spent in maintaining your Windows machine gets to be fairly bad.

That said, there are still advantages - But the balance tilts in favor of sticking with Windows.

(See, I *can* do it! )

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I have never had Windows 98, XP, or 7 (never did an me or 2000 install) not provide me with something as simple as a network driver with the install package. Sound, sure. Video, sure. DVD, sure. But at least I could connect to a network, or the internet to download the video, audio, or whatever I needed. How in name of Zeus's butthole am I supposed to connect to internet to download a driver, when not provided with said driver needed to connect to the internet? Most. Retarded. Install. Package. Ever. Oh yeah, tried like 3 different cards too. None were recognize.

They should call it suckbuntu.

Never had a driver download problem with my Pickett slide rule.

 

[EdFred]

I have had *plenty* of network cards in Windows that haven't worked without drivers. Countless times across all versions and still continues to be an issue this day. I have a whole bunch of IBM LS20 blades with common Broadcom chipsets that aren't detected in Windows but work flawlessly in Linux. I have had more network cards NOT work out of box then work and I've installed Windows thousands of times across thousands of machines. Maybe even tens of thousands.

Ubuntu's driver support really comes down to what is available in the Linux kernel. Taking extremist views about something you barely understand looks pretty silly Ed.

I really can't think of an instance where I've ran into a NIC not supported in Linux in the last 5 years. Wireless cards are a whole different matter.

My question still goes unanswered.

 

[RJM62]

I honestly don't remember the last time I had an Ethernet card (wired) not automatically detected and supported in Ubuntu (nor any other Linux, for that matter) on a properly-functioning motherboard. I'd say it has to be years. Even when using the pre-compiled, "live" versions that I use to work on unbootable Windows machines, I always have network and Internet as soon as the OS finishes booting.

There are things that can cause hardware IDs not to be properly passed to the OS, such as a flaky chipset. That's happened to me as recently as three weeks ago. But in that case, Windows couldn't identify the hardware, either. That's not an OS problem. It's a hardware problem.

Neither do I remember the last time I had to recompile a Linux kernel simply to get a NIC or any other particular piece of hardware to work. If I had to guess, I'd say it's been about eight to ten years since I've had to recompile a kernel. I've recompiled a few just for the sheer joy of it in that interval, but not because I had to.

The only place I run into problems (other than with Windows-specific hardware such as el-cheapo "winprinters," "winmodems," etc.) is with wireless cards. Pretty much any of them with Atheros, Prism, or Intel chipsets will work, but sometimes it can take a little hacking. Still, even most of the ones that "won't work," will work using ndiswrapper.

I've even gotten every Wireless Broadband card I've ever owned to work in Linux, usually in five minutes or less, without recompiling the kernel. It requires opening a terminal and there's no fancy GUI to entertain the user, but they work (at least the Sierra ones do; I haven't tried it with any others).

-Rich

 

[EdFred]

All I know is I had a computer that was an XP box with everything functioning. I formatted the hard drive, and did a clean install of ubuntu. Would not find/recognize the NIC (not one built into the mobo). Finally gave up, wiped it again and reinstalled XP on it, and the NIC was recognized with the original XP release disc.

 

[RJM62]

My question still goes unanswered.

Well, Ed, what I do on those occasions when I have a piece of hardware that doesn't work, regardless of the OS, is look at it, find the model number, and Google it. Then I download the driver or do whatever else I have to do to make it work.

Okay, granted, if it's a NIC, that means I have to have access to another computer to do it, and probably a flash drive to sneaker-net it. I guess not everyone has those things at their fingertips.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

All I know is I had a computer that was an XP box with everything functioning. I formatted the hard drive, and did a clean install of ubuntu. Would not find/recognize the NIC (not one built into the mobo). Finally gave up, wiped it again and reinstalled XP on it, and the NIC was recognized with the original XP release disc.

Who made the NIC?