Two planes, Two N Numbers, same serial number??

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by schmookeeg, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    Mike Brannigan
    Hello.

    This is a new one to me, and wanted to poll the audience.

    On a lark, I am currently the high bidder on this thing on eBay:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-BEECH...rentrq:1b681d0616b0ad78aab82637ff81c6e3|iid:1

    Basically a little 1980 Beech Skipper. I used to have one on the line at our flight school in LA and liked its manners well enough, so thought what was the harm in grabbing one to potter around in.

    The plane in the auction is very clearly N3703B, which is WA-146 according to the feds. The photos represent a real plane with some jank paint scheme. The seller, "Chris", does not match the registration but I've seen that before and there are dozens of acceptable reasons I can think of -- so I give the benefit of the doubt.

    The chain of title only goes back to 2006. On a whim, I thought I'd track down it's old N numbers.

    I found N3729Z, also a Skipper of serial WA-146. The rego was expired/cancelled out.

    One photo of the plane is on the google. It's... well, it's nothing like the eBay plane. It has nice paint in an attractive scheme. Rut roh.

    Spidey sense is way triggered. :)

    Can anyone explain this sort of thing, short of a typo error with the feds? Is this something that will get untangled fully in escrow/title? Or am I the high bidder on some Nigerian Princeling's latest auction?

    I appreciate any wisdom or ideas you care to throw on this mystery. If you wish to educate me on how slow the Skipper is, I already know. Thanks. I have a specific mission that this plane suits just fine. :)

    Cheers,

    - Mike
     
  2. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Message the seller?
     
  3. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

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    As a survivor of a couple of eBay scams, I can say that scam activity has recently picked up.

    I've not lost any money yet - but the scammers are certainly coming at eBay with everything they can.

    Be careful, and very choosy about if/when to send funds.

    Might call the airport manager to see if the airplane exists there, as indicated.
     
  4. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    I don't know if you miss-entered or what but I'm coming up with this N3703B as being WA-169.

    I've got like 6000 eBay transactions, most them as a seller but I bought five or six cars and last December flew back an airplane for a friend that he bought from Wentworth on eBay.

    One thing to realize is that eBay does not consider vehicle or real estate auctions to be binding. So you can go ahead and win it and as far as eBay is concerned or anyone else probably for that matter you're not obligated to buy it. What I've done on cars is after I win them I go look at them and decide if they were fairly represented.

    Of course the flip side of that is the seller is not obligated to sell to you either.

    Just as an aside, being high bidder at any time before the end of the auction on eBay is meaningless. I also feel that bidding before the end of an auction on eBay is a waste of your time and only serves to drive the price up. Below is an article that I published on eBay some years back explaining the concept.

    https://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-beat-the-eBay-sniper-and-win-your-auction-/10000000177746796/g.html
     
  5. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Is the paint scheme the only difference? I'd expect they painted it with the N number change.
     
  6. kurttruk

    kurttruk Pre-Flight

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    I have bought a two boats off of ebay. The first I inspected while I was picking it up. I got it for less than the engine was worth so it was a great deal regardless so long as the engine ran. That was part of the inspection at pick up before the money changed hands. The second I went and checked out before bidding on it. This was by far the better thing to do. Are you able to make a trip to it and get your eyes on it?
     
  7. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    As John posted, this appears to be a problem with your data source. The two aircraft have different serial numbers.

    I downloaded the FAA registry as of 1 January of this year. Here's the entries for the two aircraft:
    [​IMG]
    Ron Wanttaja
     
  8. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    Ahh... seller provided me the wrong S/N. I should've double-checked him.

    Guess I'll be double-checking the rest of his facts too then before traipsing over to North Carolina.. :raspberry:

    Thanks, gents. Back into the scam warrens I go. :D
     
  9. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's what I see as well.
     
  10. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    Like I said, I have 6000 eBay transactions and I might have been cheated two or three times and only scammed once or twice.

    If you want scam warren, stick to Craigslist.
     
  11. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've had exactly two bad experiences with Ebay. First was a buyer who didn't pay. Filed the ebay complaint, got my fees back, relisted it and got more than I would have gotten had the first transaction went through. Second was a seller who didn't ship. Got all but $25 on that. Other than that I've been lucky. I've bought a $35,000 boat and a $12,000 grand piano that were quite good deals. I've seen plenty of scams there but usually they're pretty obvious.

    I almost got caught by a chineese (I think) scammer on facebook. The deal seemed a bit too nice and then I realized the product image was stolen off another site. I thought I was going to order a cheap knockoff (think harbor freight) of a real product but that was OK, but when I saw the copyright infringement, I researched the seller a little better and found others who had been scammed. Facebook has no scruples.

    My only experience with craigslist was when I wanted to get rid of a set of encyclopedias and related books (for free). They were gone within minutes.
     
  12. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

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    Hey man I can run up there for you. Let me know I’m new to the forum, but I go up that way 1 or 2 times a month. I’ve read a lot about those slippers, but don’t see them for sale often. Good luck and let me know.
     
  13. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    eBay is excellent and they will readily refund you if you have been cheated. Case in point, recently I bought an older IFR GPS that was listed as "used". There is a gotcha on eBay if you list as "used". The item has to work as normal with no issues. It does not matter if you say "no returns" in the listing. You have to take it back and refund if it does not work properly for whatever reason. Sellers are better off with older electronic stuff listing as "parts/repair" and then all risk is on the buyer. Anyway, it did not work and the seller refused to take it back. It had an older 8130 on it. I just filed with eBay, got my money back and free return shipping. But it was undeliverable and I never heard from the seller again so it was returned to me by the post office so I have the GPS and my $$.
     
  14. Bacho

    Bacho Pre-Flight

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    I see no problems with the listing.

    I bought a $15k boat on ebay from a big time seller. The listing advertised a survey and found to be in excellent condition. I was not given the opportunity to inspect the boat before payment was due or auction end. On pick up I found the boat to have damage including a hole and missing parts, $2500-3000 worth IIRC. The seller called me a cheap sailboat guy, Ebay was less than helpful because the major problems did not fit the protections well. Had the damage been engine or hull damage, I would have been OK. In my case missing parts/incomplete boat was the problem and I was offered no relief.

    I had a similar incident when trying to buy a Sprinter on ebay. Paid a deposit and on pick up found a piece of junk in limp mode. Took many weeks through a third party to get my deposit back.

    Bought and sold many small and lower value items on ebay without issue. However, I am done with cars/boats or aircraft on ebay unless an inspection can be made. Most of the time its just not practical in a week long auction.
     
  15. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    "In most product categories on eBay, when you place a bid in an auction it's considered binding – when you win an auction, you're agreeing to complete the purchase. However, there are some categories where bids don't create a formal contract between the buyer and seller.

    For motor vehicles and real estate, bids are considered non-binding. When you bid on an item in these categories, you're expressing a strong interest in buying the seller's item, but no formal purchase contract is created if you're the winning bidder. For more details on non-binding bids, please see our full policy guidelines below."

    Long story short, don't give them a dime until you have seen it.
     
  16. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, the real estate is because you can't legally have a non-written contract by law (Statute of Frauds).

    In actuality, if someone decides to back out of an ebay sale, there's not much the other guy can do about it. I've never heard of specific performance or a damage award in the US. There was a notable case in Australia.
     
  17. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    That's really kind of you. I'd love a set of eyes on the thing, being as I'm on the left coast. :)

    I'm partciuarly concerned about his useful load quote, as it took me 3 tries to beat the non-book number out of him, and it's suspiciously high -- and he seems unable to furnish a photo of the last W/B report. I'll buy him a tank of gas if he'll let you two go fly it. Skippers are easy to fly, but super comfy inside. :D
     
  18. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

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    I don’t have my license but if he will take me up im down. I’ve been looking at small planes for quite awhile, but would by no means say I know what I’m doing. I have a flight out of Raleigh tomorrow. Do you know exactly where it is? I’ll be up in that area early in the a.m. I’m also flying back through Raleigh in three days. I’d much rather look at it tomorrow if he’s available. Let me know. It won’t be a problem. Thanks you can email me at wilmingtoncars@yahoo.com. I’ve looked at a skipper in Greensboro NC. I still have my notes. I’ll find them tonight.
     
  19. Madison890

    Madison890 Pre-Flight

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    Did you win it?
     
  20. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    Naw, sniped at the last minute. Lost by $600.

    Knowing the eBay game, that dude will flake and I'll get an email from the seller here in the next few days offering it to me for his price, to which I'll respond with the horse's laugh.

    It's actually good fortune for me. I met a recent 'hookup' who works at Garmin in Salem. A hookup at garmin demands at least a light twin, and better, something pressurized, to extract maximum benefit. A skipper can only carry so much cheap glass. :D
     
  21. Paul Dark

    Paul Dark Filing Flight Plan

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    Judging by dates you posted you lost by $3200 to few people...