twin down in Bowie Texas. father/son killed

Very sad.

It sure makes a person think about a BPS.

You have to wonder if it had one, would they still be alive....
 
LDJones said:
It would take a pretty big chute for a C414.
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I know. It's just very sad to think maybe, just maybe if he'd sprung for a Cirrus, everyone would be happy right now instead of devastated.

A BPS is a big carrot.

I'm thinking a 414 driver could maybe afford one ... RIP.
 
txflyer said:
Very sad.

It sure makes a person think about a BPS.

You have to wonder if it had one, would they still be alive....
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I think we would need quite bit more details before we can pronounce a BRS as a solution to this situation.
 
Wasn't this a landing accident? Not sure how a ballistic chute would help, there.

Very, very sad...
 
May they rest in peace,very sad.
 
Confused.... Said he was trying to land at the municpal airport but they landed on their own property? Seems odd.

Wonder what happened... Plane looks to be in tact at final rest before burning up.
 
Unit74 said:
Confused.... Said he was trying to land at the municpal airport but they landed on their own property? Seems odd.
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The article says they landed on private property "belong[ing] to a local family that wasn't home at the time." Sounds like two different sets of people.
 
txflyer said:
Agreed.

It's just a thought that ran through my head ...
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Whenever a Cirrus crashes, the natural response then should be "If only they'd saved money and bought a twin. The second engine might have saved them."

Way too little info.
 
Bummer, that stretch of TX across that highway 82 to Wichita Falls has eaten a lot of Twin Cessnas over the years. One of the previous owners of the neighbors ranch crashed a 421 on our hill side. I can think of 3 or four more as well.
 
This one hits home as the pilot is from the next town down from me. His wife is the principle at the local high school.

I am trying to figure out from the pictures how this happened. I don't see a debris field. Could they have had a successful landing and then consumed by fire before they could get out?
 
Tex_Mike said:
This one hits home as the pilot is from the next town down from me. His wife is the principle at the local high school.

I am trying to figure out from the pictures how this happened. I don't see a debris field. Could they have had a successful landing and then consumed by fire before they could get out?
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Anything we say here is pure speculation. With that said, it does not appear to be a loss of control or stall/spin, it looks like the airplane is intact, at least prior to the fire. The fire tells me they had fuel on board, aka not fuel exhaustion.

Also debris field is contained within a small area.

Possibly got slow, stall and flat impact into terrain ? Tail section is very intact.

4497359_G.jpg



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This article (if even accurate) says airplane on approach to airport and crashed in a field "one mile north"

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Deadly-Plane-Crash-Reported-Near-Bowie-271452741.html
 
Dav8or said:
What difference does that make? Do twins need to be on a flight plan and taking instructions from a guy on a radio to be safely flown??:confused:
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Why do you think it makes a difference ? I did not say that. Any other quantum-leap conclusion jumping you care to offer ?

:rolleyes:
 
'One mile North' pretty much means in the pattern to the local airport. I just go back to the simple stuff and the 89% reasons airplanes crash. That's the stuff out there to bite you.
 
B350ATP said:
Anything we say here is pure speculation. With that said, it does not appear to be a loss of control or stall/spin, it looks like the airplane is intact, at least prior to the fire. The fire tells me they had fuel on board, aka not fuel exhaustion.

Also debris field is contained within a small area.

Possibly got slow, stall and flat impact into terrain ? Tail section is very intact.

4497359_G.jpg



1551536_10152388319997690_7796087055799868039_n.jpg



This article (if even accurate) says airplane on approach to airport and crashed in a field "one mile north"

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Deadly-Plane-Crash-Reported-Near-Bowie-271452741.html
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I look at the scorch pattern and I don't see any sign of a spin. I see coming in steep and flat with left quartering tail wind. What were the the clouds looking like at the time? The reason that that stretch eats heavier planes is that the Red River provides the moisture to build a line that can have some nasty down bursts in it. Several of my pipeline routes crossed that stretch running TX-OK around Duncan. I've been pushed around pretty hard through there. I have a feeling he may have gotten into a downburst he couldn't fly out of which is probably why he was slow enough into the ground trying to climb that the physical energy damage is so low, and scorch pattern rather abrupt and short and blown.

My guess anyway.
 
Henning said:
I look at the scorch pattern and I don't see any sign of a spin. I see coming in steep and flat with left quartering tail wind. What were the the clouds looking like at the time? The reason that that stretch eats heavier planes is that the Red River provides the moisture to build a line that can have some nasty down bursts in it. Several of my pipeline routes crossed that stretch running TX-OK around Duncan. I've been pushed around pretty hard through there. I have a feeling he may have gotten into a downburst he couldn't fly out of which is probably why he was slow enough into the ground trying to climb that the physical energy damage is so low, and scorch pattern rather abrupt and short and blown.

My guess anyway.
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Interesting points.
 
txflyer said:
I know. It's just very sad to think maybe, just maybe if he'd sprung for a Cirrus, everyone would be happy right now instead of devastated.

A BPS is a big carrot.

I'm thinking a 414 driver could maybe afford one ... RIP.
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Mabe he was thinking along the lines of 2 engines are better than one?

RIP to all aboard. And sad to see it happen.
 
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This is true.

Bowie is quite some distance from the Red, but TSs like to follow that valley.
As you noted, it appears he had a quartering tailwind at the ground. The fire appears to have started at the left wing, and wind blew it forward and right. I don't know about the fuel system on that airplane, but is it possible that he had selected the empty tank, and run out of gas, short of the runway?
 
sourdough44 said:
For the most part the weather seemed rather tranquil that day in the afternoon. Not to say that a stray event wasn't present.


http://vortex.plymouth.edu/cgi-bin/gen_sa_parse-u.cgi?ident=TX&if=sfc_dat&yy=14&mm=08&dd=15&hh=21
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Sad deal all around. I was playing golf about 19 miles due South of there when it happened. There was a scattered layer about 5000 AGL and a pretty good wind. from the SE. Later in the evening it got overcast, the wind picked up and the ceiling dropped and stayed that way Saturday. I fly into and out of Bowie and along the Red River all the time. There are occasions I have gotten in some pretty rough air in the 3500-4500 MSL range while in that area.
 
I know out that way and on the plains, I've been flying along in relatively smooth CAVU and all of a sudden it's like you hit a speed bump very hard just out of the blue. Hard enough to re-arrange your cap and headset and every loose item in the cabin.

I want to see the NTSB on this one.
 
Dav8or said:
What difference does that make? Do twins need to be on a flight plan and taking instructions from a guy on a radio to be safely flown??:confused:
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No, but especially a 414 is a "go places" airplane, and so you tend to have a higher percentage of twin pilots who fly IFR at least some portion of the time. There are exceptions, of course, and this could have been one such exception.

On the other hand, it could indicate the plane had sat for some time, and that's not a good thing.
 
Any accident is horrible but I just get sick when I hear about accidents were the kids die.
 
Dav8or said:
Yet everyone seems to think it's a great idea to take kids flying.
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+1. Call me a curmudgeon, but I don't want anyone's minor kid in my plane. Not really even my own Grandkids although I'll do it if they beg me and really want to go.

They have to have the want to, is key. I won't force any flying onto a kid unless they really behave like they want to learn, and even then I don't really want to.

As far as disclaimer's and such for strangers, a good lawyer will tear anything to shreds simply because a minor doesn't have the power of consent even if his own parents consented. As they often change their minds when Jr. doesn't come home. Bye bye estate honey, sorry. :nonod:
 
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bluerooster said:
This is true.

Bowie is quite some distance from the Red, but TSs like to follow that valley.
As you noted, it appears he had a quartering tailwind at the ground. The fire appears to have started at the left wing, and wind blew it forward and right. I don't know about the fuel system on that airplane, but is it possible that he had selected the empty tank, and run out of gas, short of the runway?
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Yes, that is not a 414A, so it is possible that he was on dry auxiliaries with fuel in the mains (tips).
 
I'd rather not speculate as to the cause, but contributing factor could have been time in type. Looks like he registered this plane just this month. Very sad situation.

You can't help but wonder if they would have survived without the fire. The now infamous USA Today article spent a lot of time covering that issue. I can't disagree that plane crashes would be more survivable if we could solve the post-crash fire. It may not have helped here, but who can tell for sure?
 
Dav8or said:
Yet everyone seems to think it's a great idea to take kids flying.
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You can lock kids in a room and they will be safe from everything. They also won't get to have a childhood, and will never experience a spark that ignites them.
 
Take kids [flying] ? this, along with the following activities to be inserted into the brackets, is clearly very risky and should be banned, along with laws implemented to prosecute violators.

Hunting.....involves killing innocent animals and kids may get hurt by weapon accidents

Fishing...kids may drown or get eaten alive by bass

Bike Riding.....may get hit by cars

Skiing....broken legs, ski off a cliff

Ham Radio.....get electrocuted

On picnic.....may get abducted at park

Rollercoaster.....may fall out and fall to their deaths

Haunted House at Carnival.....mental scars and never the same

Disney.....heat stroke, frustrations, anger management, lost in crowd and mental scars

Sleepover at buddy's house....emotional trauma missing mom, sleeplessness, scary dreams

Observation: It is apparent why Americas kids, age 5-20, are so screwed up
 
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WakeNCAgent said:
I'd rather not speculate as to the cause, but contributing factor could have been time in type. Looks like he registered this plane just this month. Very sad situation.

You can't help but wonder if they would have survived without the fire. The now infamous USA Today article spent a lot of time covering that issue. I can't disagree that plane crashes would be more survivable if we could solve the post-crash fire. It may not have helped here, but who can tell for sure?
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For sure. But how do you make a giant tankful of explosive/flammable stuff not explode/burn on impact?

Best thing you can do, IMHO, is avoid aircraft with header tanks. Beyond that...
 
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