TWA 800

That level of destruction is just not consistent with a MANPADS (shoulder launched) amount of explosives. One of the last switches flipped in that cockpit was a center fuel boost pump by a trainee Second Officer undergoing IOE. Look, I believe in UFO's and Bigfoot but I just don't see this being from a heat seeking missile. I guess people want to believe in conspiracy so strongly they just don't want to let this die.
 
Art VanDelay said:
That level of destruction is just not consistent with a MANPADS (shoulder launched) amount of explosives. One of the last switches flipped in that cockpit was a center fuel boost pump by a trainee Second Officer undergoing IOE. Look, I believe in UFO's and Bigfoot but I just don't see this being from a heat seeking missile. I guess people want to believe in conspiracy so strongly they just don't want to let this die.
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I was all bent out of shape about you calling me a 'bafoon'. Now...not so much.
 
Art VanDelay said:
That level of destruction is just not consistent with a MANPADS (shoulder launched) amount of explosives. One of the last switches flipped in that cockpit was a center fuel boost pump by a trainee Second Officer undergoing IOE. Look, I believe in UFO's and Bigfoot but I just don't see this being from a heat seeking missile. I guess people want to believe in conspiracy so strongly they just don't want to let this die.
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Wouldn't a heat seeking missile hit the one of the engines??
 
YADA YADA YADA. I've walked through that wreckage pictured (it's at the NTSB center out in Ashburn). I've talked with the guy who was going to PROVE it was a missile or some external object. After talking with every one who claims to have seen such and plotting their idea of location and time, it's clear that the airplane had already exploded by the time they looked up.

There's no NTSB gag order. The participants are enjoined from talking about it UNTIL the results are released. After the investigation is complete, the NTSB has no power to hold things secret.
 
Someone who wants to sell a book and knows that the tinfoil hat crowd is allways good for 20k copies.
 
us AAirways said:
Wouldn't a heat seeking missile hit the one of the engines??
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Not necessarily. Most missiles are typically designed to detonate when they get close to the target before they actually physically contact the target (increases the odds of scoring a hit). The guidance system just gets them close.

That said, I don't buy the conspiracy theory.
 
I notice that none of the agencies listed as where the "whistleblowers" worked has anything to do with aircraft battle damage analysis or ballistic live fire testing. I personally knew and was at that time working with the folks from that community who did the examination of the wreckage and determined conclusively that it was not an external threat which caused the damage, and it doesn't seem like any of them are involved in this "report." I spent 12 years doing combat aircraft ballistic vulnerability work, including the period during and after that accident and investigation, and attended and presented at both the transport aircraft vulnerability conference in St Louis and the fuel tank fire/explosion conference in DC. The evidence supporting the NTSB conclusions is overwhelming, and there is no credible evidence whatsoever which supports an external threat cause.

But I know that won't stop anyone from doing something they think will make money regardless of the evidence.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not necessarily. Most missiles are typically designed to detonate when they get close to the target before they actually physically contact the target (increases the odds of scoring a hit). The guidance system just gets them close.
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Depends on the missile. IIRC, the MANPADs of that era were primarily contact fuzed (not that any of them could have hit that plane at that speed and altitude anyway). Further, the proximity fuzed weapons leave a characteristic damage pattern which did not appear on TW800.
 
Ron Levy said:
Depends on the missile. IIRC, the MANPADs of that era were primarily contact fuzed (not that any of them could have hit that plane at that speed and altitude anyway). Further, the proximity fuzed weapons leave a characteristic damage pattern which did not appear on TW800.
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True.
 
Dear Fox Editor,

If you're talking about blowy-uppy stuff, it's "ordnance". If you're talking about laws & suchlike, it's "ordinance".

sigh...
 
Ordinarily I would eschew such a topic, but when it comes to parsing ordnance from ordinance, wow I knew that degree in English from 50 years ago would come in handy someday.
Finally.

Oh yeah, and the TWA800 tinfoil hat folks, never, never, never, give up.
 
I worked just down the road from the Army Ordnance school.

I used to work for the Army Materiel Command. I always had to explain that materiel is to material what personnel is to personal. Then they understand.

C'Ron and I both worked in the same buildings although separated by a number of years.
 
They made a documentary, so it MUST be true. ;)
 
As proof-readers?:D

flyingron said:
I worked just down the road from the Army Ordnance school.

I used to work for the Army Materiel Command. I always had to explain that materiel is to material what personnel is to personal. Then they understand.

C'Ron and I both worked in the same buildings although separated by a number of years.
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Boy, I bet those airlines are going to be ticked that they had to pay for all that retrofitting when it was a missle all along. :)
 
KRyan said:
Boy, I bet those airlines are going to be ticked that they had to pay for all that retrofitting when it was a missle all along. :)
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Obviously, the whole thing was staged by the people who make the stuff used to do the retrofitting!
 
Silly me. I don't recall theories in that day about shoulder launched missiles. I thought the 'conspiracy' was all about accidentally shooting down our own aircraft from a surface to air missile from a ship or something. Don't recall shoulder launched anything from the time myself. Isn't all that damage reflecting out anyway? Seems counterintuitive to me for an external explosion. But I am not an expert in the field.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
TriGear28 said:
Silly me. I don't recall theories in that day about shoulder launched missiles. I thought the 'conspiracy' was all about accidentally shooting down our own aircraft from a surface to air missile from a ship or something. Don't recall shoulder launched anything from the time myself.
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Yes, the shoulder launched missile was just one of many conspiracy theories that ranged from a USN destroyer launching a missile to a Navy shore based missile launch to an AQ ploy that involved flying a single engle GA airplane into it kamikaze style.
 
The missile proposed was not armed. It merely passed through the plane.

Here in St. Louis, major hub city of TWA, and the mechanics who repaired their planes, a local station found only one retired mechanic who would discuss the matter, but he said he cannot believe that the destruction was caused by the fuel sensor -- not enough voltage he said.
 
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tinerj said:
The missile proposed was not armed. It merely passed through the plane.
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Incompatible with the wreckage and the results. If something punched a hole that big in the tank, the overpressure would have been vented overboard and the structural failure would not have occurred. In addition, there would have been a big hole on the other side of the tank and through the rest of the fuselage, and that wasn't seen in the wreckage.

Here in St. Louis, major hub city of TWA, and the mechanics who repaired their planes, a local station found only one retired mechanic who would discuss the matter, but he said he cannot believe that the destruction was caused by the fuel sensor -- not enough voltage he said.
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Proven otherwise in many tests by Boeing and the government.
 
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Dr. O said:
Oh yeah, and the TWA800 tinfoil hat folks, never, never, never, give up.
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"Tin foil hat" is from the movie 'Signs'. They wore the hats to protect their brains from aliens. What does that have to do with airplanes or someone possibly shooting down an airplane?

Back to topic:
What about the 100 eyewitnesses who claimed they saw something hit the plane?
 
MadseasoN said:
"Tin foil hat" is from the movie 'Signs'. They wore the hats to protect their brains from aliens. What does that have to do with airplanes or someone possibly shooting down an airplane?
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No its not.

This reminds me of being outside once before a wedding, having someone drive by and yell "Mazel Tov!" at us, and hearing one of the people there say "What are we, the Black Eyed Peas?" as if that phrase hadn't existed before they uttered it in a song.

Tin Foil Hat predates Signs by many, many years.
 
SkyHog said:
Tin Foil Hat predates Signs by many, many years.
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Yeah, according to Wiki it's originally from 1927. The wannabe comedians that litter internet forums with it aren't 80 or 90 years old. They got it from 'Signs'. If it weren't for the movie it could've stayed dormant.
 
MadseasoN said:
What about the 100 eyewitnesses who claimed they saw something hit the plane?
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I would want to know if they heard the explosion and then looked up, or if they just happened to be looking in the right direction.
 
MadseasoN said:
Yeah, according to Wiki it's originally from 1927. The wannabe comedians that litter internet forums with it aren't 80 or 90 years old. They got it from 'Signs'. If it weren't for the movie it could've stayed dormant.
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Take it off man, your head is baking in that thing!
 
timwinters said:
Well, it is Fox News after all. Fiction purveyors extraordinaire.
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Yeah.... The same news org that first reported the IRS was targeting conservative groups but leaving left wing groups like ACRON alone.....

ya can't trust the truth....:no::no:;)
 
Back when this crash was current news and people were still scratching their heads as to the cause, I heard a theory that made a bit of sense to me. The plane was hit by a meteorite. Explains the eye witness streak in the sky and the lack of evidence for explosives. Anyhow, it was quickly dismissed as crazy talk because well, there isn't anything we can do about it. You can't retrofit planes to protect you from falling space debris, there's nobody to sue for damages and there's no criminal to catch. Crappy theory. Move on.:rolleyes:
 
N801BH said:
Yeah.... The same news org that first reported the IRS was targeting conservative groups but leaving left wing groups like ACRON alone.....

ya can't trust the truth....:no::no:;)
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I don't think any news organization gets everything wrong or everything right.
 
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