Turbulance & the art of flying in bumpy air

[Ddayle]

It was a bit Gusty w/ partial 5000' overcast Friday morning. I suspected it might be bumpy, and was not disappointed. We flew Cessna's on vacation every yr growing up in the sixties, & I fly Cessna's. I know the planes are safe, my Dad flew through everything, the only time I remember him turning back for turbulance was heading west from Tutumcari on a hot afternoon. I think even then it was only because he could not hear the stall warning horn over the screams of the passengers( I was 12 maybe it was not quite that bad , but that is how I remember it).I may never be that at ease, but what stratagies can I employ to ease my irrational fear of bumpy air? I try not to grip the yoke so hard I crush the plastic,but it is hard to not . I have over 120 hours , everyone says it just takes time, how much? Is moderate chop when the wings dip 5 to 10 degrees, (seems like 90 degrees to me) , because that is what makes me tense. When it gets bumpy I worry they may repeal Bernoulli's law while I am flying. DaveR

 

[rottydaddy]

Slow down, don't fight it, and whatever you do, don't think about Bernoulli...

 

[2256Q]

In all likelihood, the airplane is the most reliable machine ever built. Seriously, consider the simple hammer. The hammer handle is going to break before the wings on your Cessna fall off. Just stay out of thunderstorms. Those will pull the wings off any plane ever built, including military fighters. A pilot with 120 hours has only one maneuver to complete when he sees a thunderstorm in front of him. A 180 degree turn. Just keep practicing your flying and you'll probably reach a point where you respond with the ailerons almost before the wing starts to fall in turbulence. Trust your airplane. She can be a wonderful friend.

18,000 hour pilot

 

[Dan Thomas]

Re: Turbulance & the art of flying in bumpy air

Check the weather. There's information there that forecasts varying degrees of turbulence, and there's often pireps from experienced pilots describing what they're experiencing. You soon figure out what light or moderate turbulence is, and you stay away from severe or extreme turbulence. Know what Va is all about, what the number is for your airplane, and how gross weight increases it a little. Then stay at or below that speed if you're getting banged around some.
Watch for wind over the mountains, and expect some disturbances downwind of those mountains. There are some days flying is no fun, but I think you're a long ways from breaking an airplane.
See this: http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/trip/turbulen.htm
It relates to airline flying but the descriptions are much the same.

Dan
________
Suzuki KT120

 

[dmccormack]

Best advice ever on flying in turbulence:

1) Enjoy it -- it let's you know you are flying In The Air (see Charles Lindbergh's discussion in Spirit of St. Louis)
2) Release the yoke. See how much less input is required to keep flying.

We often add to our own woes in turbulence. Don't fight it, go along for the ride, and keep wings level and accept minor deviations here and there.

 

[vontresc]

Turn off the engine, slow down, and thermal

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Maybe reading up on the various causes of turbulence (thermal, mechanical, wind shear, etc.) would help ease your mind a bit - If nothing else, it'll let you know before you go whether it's gonna be turbulent, or maybe how you can get out of the turbulence once you're up.

 

[Skip Miller]

I find it helps to concentrate on the rudder. Minimize those yaw excursions and the plane (seems to) fly much more level.

-Skip

 

[dmccormack]

I find it helps to concentrate on the rudder. Minimize those yaw excursions and the plane (seems to) fly much more level.

-Skip

What often happens is the pilot will correct with yoke only -- which introduces yaw, which is often counteracted with yoke only.

Makes for a worse than warranted ride and (usually) sick passengers.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Best advice ever on flying in turbulence:

2) Release the yoke. See how much less input is required to keep flying.

We often add to our own woes in turbulence. Don't fight it, go along for the ride, and keep wings level and accept minor deviations here and there.

This is a winner!

Our concerns over turbulence make us tend to think we need to do more than we do. Forcing yourself to let go will go along way to helping. You don't have to sit there with your hands in your lap - make your hand into a circle to surround the yoke but without touching it and let the yoke move around and bang into the "stops" made by your hand. It will help develop the right touch.

OTOH I disagree with you (and apparently Lindbergh) on

1) Enjoy it -- it let's you know you are flying In The Air (see Charles Lindbergh's discussion in Spirit of St. Louis)

There is about as much need to =enjoy= the bumps in the air as there is to enjoy going over speed bumps in a parking lot.

 

[dmccormack]

OTOH I disagree with you (and apparently Lindbergh) on There is about as much need to =enjoy= the bumps in the air as there is to enjoy going over speed bumps in a parking lot.

Well...

I used to "fight" turbulence -- "Oh no, I don't like this, etc etc.."

Then I thought back to some sports psychology reading I had done a long time ago --(paraphrasing) "When you think 'Man this is hard! I don't think I can keep up' remind yourself that you want to be here -- this is what you've trained for -- you're doing this because you love it -- and some minor pain is the price to participate -- champions want the ball when there's no time on the clock -- they live for the pressure and know that's when it's time to shine..."

I used that through some pretty tough Army training, coaching a HS Varsity team through a championship season, and though some very hard bike races -- and -- it worked.

If you tell yourself --"I don't like this, when will it be over?" It will be twice as bad.

If you instead tell yourself "I'm flying! This is what I love to do and this is a good test of my skill and ability to stay cool and fly smoothly" you'll learn to go with the flow, and thus make the turbulence less intense and less lengthy.

 

[TMetzinger]

I hold the yoke/stick very loosely, only because it reassures the passengers. If a wing drops, I apply rudder pressure first to pick it back up if needed. And that's gentle pressure, NOT a kick.

If you've ever been out in a small boat on rough water, you know that there's chop, which you can deal with, and then there's the sort of chaotic mess that you just have to endure. It's the same in the air - fighting it only makes it worse.

 

[Ted]

If you tell yourself --"I don't like this, when will it be over?" It will be twice as bad.

And it will feel like it's taking four times as long!

If you instead tell yourself "I'm flying! This is what I love to do and this is a good test of my skill and ability to stay cool and fly smoothly" you'll learn to go with the flow, and thus make the turbulence less intense and less lengthy.

As usual, Dan, I agree with you.

Turbulence doesn't bother me. I have flown in turbulence that has caused a passenger (who otherwise had a pretty strong stomach) to come out of his seat, hit his head on the roof and go "Woah!" I take Dan's approach. If it gets too bumpy for my comfort (which is only the point at which I think about the stresses on the aircraft) I pull back the power a bit. I don't fight it so much as make corrections for how it screws with straight and level.

It's a mindset thing. The worst turbulence I've ever been in was fun. The LONGEST turbulence I've been in (in terms of how it felt) was when I'd had a breakfast that didn't agree with me, I had to go to the bathroom, and I had a strong headwind so I wanted to get home already, and had dealt with enough other delays that day.

Just go up and enjoy it, and then realize "Hey, this is fun." It sure helps to have the skill set of being able to fly in turbulence without panicing and freezing up (now there's something that will kill you).

105 hour pilot... I really don't know anything, these are just my observations from what limited time in the air I have.

 

[KennyFlys]

I have a few students who keep fighting the plane, particularly on short final. I try to convince them to accept the changes and hold the yoke steady... that the plane is so inherently stable, it will come back on its own.

As an analogy, I speak to unusual attitudes. It's so stable, I have to put in trim to hold an attitude or the plane is halfway recovered by the time they take the controls.

As for crosswinds, keep that upwind wing down and adjust the rudder to maintain alignment. It's a lot less work than trying to control the ailerons while rounding out.

 

[silver-eagle]

There's another way to deal with turbulence. Bring along an instructor. Make sure he doesn't touch the controls (or futz with stuff like they like to do). All he is there for is to offer suggestions to deal with the speed bumps. Slowing down may lessen the impact. And... fly as much as you can in it. Harness it and make it your friend.
It's not as bad as being on the ground.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Well...

I used to "fight" turbulence -- "Oh no, I don't like this, etc etc.."

Then I thought back to some sports psychology reading I had done a long time ago --(paraphrasing) "When you think 'Man this is hard! I don't think I can keep up' remind yourself that you want to be here -- this is what you've trained for -- you're doing this because you love it -- and some minor pain is the price to participate -- champions want the ball when there's no time on the clock -- they live for the pressure and know that's when it's time to shine..."

I used that through some pretty tough Army training, coaching a HS Varsity team through a championship season, and though some very hard bike races -- and -- it worked.

If you tell yourself --"I don't like this, when will it be over?" It will be twice as bad.

If you instead tell yourself "I'm flying! This is what I love to do and this is a good test of my skill and ability to stay cool and fly smoothly" you'll learn to go with the flow, and thus make the turbulence less intense and less lengthy.

Different strokes, I guess.

I have no problems with turbulence. It doesn't frighten me. Doesn't even make me nervous.

My second lesson was in turbulence. My CFI and I both hit our heads. When we landed, my CFI apologized profusely for taking me up in those conditions. My response was, "Don't apologize! That was TERRIFIC!!!" That was when I knew I was hooked on flying.

But that doesn't mean I feel the need to pretend to enjoy discomfort or enjoy subjecting my passengers to it.

 

[jesse]

Turbulence in itself does not bother me. I don't really even think about it when I encounter it. Just let the airplane bounce through it and keep it somewhat level. It isn't worth trying to fight every bump.

1) Let the bumps hit you
2) See what happens
3) If you deviated a bunch from your desired course / altitude, slowly fix it.

Don't do number three unless it's actually necessary. That said--if I'm in turbulence for long enough (hours) I tend to get motion sick, which is no fun at all.

 

[gismo]

There's only three things you need to worry about in turbulence:

1) Hitting your head
2) Passenger fear
3) Passengers getting sick

 

[dmccormack]

There's only three things you need to worry about in turbulence:

1) Hitting your head
2) Passenger fear
3) Passengers getting sick

And.. if it's bad enough, Maneuvering Speed (Va), so the airplane stalls before suffering structural damage.

 

[2256Q]

There's only three things you need to worry about in turbulence:

1) Hitting your head
2) Passenger fear
3) Passengers getting sick

Agreed. And personally, I fly a turbo-charged twin that is quite capable, so when the bumps seem to be in the mood to hang around my flight path, I just point the nose up until it quits bumping.

 

[gismo]

And.. if it's bad enough, Maneuvering Speed (Va), so the airplane stalls before suffering structural damage.

That's certainly the correct thing to do, but not something I'd worry about.

 

[dmccormack]

That's certainly the correct thing to do, but not something I'd worry about.

Think?

Always.

Worry?

Who has time?

 

[AirBaker]

I used to be rather nervous in turbulence, especially before learning to fly. For me, it really took a flight or two where you got the crap beat out of you. You land, and then think 'Oh that wasn't as bad..."

I remember flying out of Palm Springs one summer and hitting my head every few minutes. THUMP, "ouch", THUMP, "ouch", and so on.

I think I finally eased up when I flew in another Bonanza that had a panel mounted G-meter. We took a really good hit where both of our headsets came off, looked at each other and asked if the other was OK. The G-meter read -1 G.

All in all, a bit of flying over the desert or the mountains will up your tolerance over time.

 

[dmccormack]

I used to be rather nervous in turbulence, especially before learning to fly. For me, it really took a flight or two where you got the crap beat out of you. You land, and then think 'Oh that wasn't as bad..."

I remember flying out of Palm Springs one summer and hitting my head every few minutes. THUMP, "ouch", THUMP, "ouch", and so on.

I think I finally eased up when I flew in another Bonanza that had a panel mounted G-meter. We took a really good hit where both of our headsets came off, looked at each other and asked if the other was OK. The G-meter read -1 G.

All in all, a bit of flying over the desert or the mountains will up your tolerance over time.

And flying a Bonanza (built like a tank and utility rated) will make you happy.

 

[Ddayle]

Today PWT Atis was reporting calm , but the scud at 2300 was whisking along NE at at least 10- 15 knts. I needed to stay beneath it for the Artificial horizon is in-op. I knew there would be a shear layer somewhere, and behold i found it. A little less controlling and slower ailerons seemed to help ease things along. I even sped up to 100 mph(from 90) . It helps too, to know I am not the only one uncomfortable in bumpy Sky's. I am starting to think about gathering the requirements for the IR. I will have to fly the 172 more. DaveR

 

[2256Q]

Today PWT Atis was reporting calm , but the scud at 2300 was whisking along NE at at least 10- 15 knts. I needed to stay beneath it for the Artificial horizon is in-op. I knew there would be a shear layer somewhere, and behold i found it. A little less controlling and slower ailerons seemed to help ease things along. I even sped up to 100 mph(from 90) . It helps too, to know I am not the only one uncomfortable in bumpy Sky's. I am starting to think about gathering the requirements for the IR. I will have to fly the 172 more. DaveR

Way back when I was young, I took a 172 through (actually over) Cajon Pass. Quoth the raven, nevermore. As I bounced along, I watched semi trucks going faster than I was. Next time I crossed the same patch of dirt, I was in an F-104. What a difference!

 

[taters]

sometimes a "baby slip" helps a bit..especiall on a decent or rough approach. just maintain an attitude and accept small deviations in altitude speed..etc

 

[wsuffa]

If you've ever been out in a small boat on rough water, you know that there's chop, which you can deal with, and then there's the sort of chaotic mess that you just have to endure. It's the same in the air - fighting it only makes it worse.

Unless, of course, you head is banging on the top of the cabin....

 

[AuntPeggy]

I agree with the above. When the bumps begin, you move your hands so you are not over-controlling, whether that means using just fingertips or simply providing a cage to keep the yoke within bounds. I've also noticed that the mind exaggerates the bumping when airborne. "Is this as bumpy as a dirt road in a pickup?" usually actually results in a "No." Sometimes passengers panic when it is as bumpy as an Interstate in a SUV. Remind yourself and them of the comparison.

 

[AdamZ]

Turbulence in itself does not bother me. I don't really even think about it when I encounter it.
Don't do number three unless it's actually necessary. That said--if I'm in turbulence for long enough (hours) I tend to get motion sick, which is no fun at all.

Uh ya mean like the trip to Gastons in 07?

Also if the turb is bothering you depending what type it is you may be able to climb above it. You don't always have to suffer through it.

 

[Danos]

Don't do number three unless it's actually necessary.

OR #2

Check the airmets. They can give you a good idea of what altitude to fly at. If there are CB's climb above them if you can.

 

[jesse]

]Also if the turb is bothering you depending what type it is you may be able to climb above it. You don't always have to suffer through it.

And Gastons 08....

Of course, both times, it was smooth on top of the clouds. Every time I'd try and climb above them on either trip they'd close up and I'd have to come back down a hole before it was an overcast. Instrument rating is in the works.

 

[sba55]

It all depends on you, but if a wing drops 5 degrees in a 172, it's not moderate chop. Maybe light chop, if that. Moderate chop is the sort of stuff where the headsets come off. Or when you accidentally hit the go-around button on the yoke, causing a sudden 10 degrees nose up

I've never encountered turbulence that was severe enough to make me slow down. A friend of mine owns an aerobatic Bonanza with a G meter. I took it up once and tried to do a couple of rapid negative push-overs to see if I could get the G meter to move. On the last one, I entered a 60 degree climb, and then shoved the yoke in as fast as I could. It was extremely uncomfortable (Gs don't usually bother me, but it's different if you go from 0 to -3 very abruptly), but I still only managed -3 G or so (and was hit with a screw that came up from the floor ). That puts most turbulence into perspective.

-Felix

 

[dmccormack]

OR #2

Check the airmets. They can give you a good idea of what altitude to fly at. If there are CB's climb above them if you can.

Only if you're flying a jet -- very, very few CBS are less than 30k in the Northeast, and most are far bigger in the midwest.

The best way to deal with cumulonimbus is avoidance.

 

[BartY]

As hot as the summers are in Georgia, turbulence was just something I expected to encounter while flying. I didn't think we were really having fun until we hit bumps big enough to start tossing whatever was behind the back seat over the back seat itself or passengers into the roof.

Like most others, I learned to relax my grip on the yoke and just keep using the same small control inputs to keep it generally straight and level.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Only if you're flying a jet -- very, very few CBS are less than 30k in the Northeast, and most are far bigger in the midwest.

The best way to deal with cumulonimbus is avoidance.

I think he meant Cumulus... And those are quite easy to fly above at ~10-12K in the midwest, and it's generally nice, smooth, and cool. That's where the IR comes in handy - You don't have to worry about whether it's gonna close up in front of you and keep you from getting down at your destination.

 

[dmccormack]

I think he meant Cumulus... And those are quite easy to fly above at ~10-12K in the midwest, and it's generally nice, smooth, and cool. That's where the IR comes in handy - You don't have to worry about whether it's gonna close up in front of you and keep you from getting down at your destination.

OK -- there's a big difference between CU and CB!

We get ground fog nearly every VFR day. The IR also helps get above that and into the perfectly smooth, clear air above (as long as you're willing to takeoff in 1 to 1/2 mile vis).

 

[flyersfan31]

Way back when I was young, I took a 172 through (actually over) Cajon Pass. ...Next time I crossed the same patch of dirt, I was in an F-104. What a difference!

Just a bit!!!

Lucky guy.

 

[coach]

Way back when I was young, I took a 172 through (actually over) Cajon Pass. Quoth the raven, nevermore. As I bounced along, I watched semi trucks going faster than I was. Next time I crossed the same patch of dirt, I was in an F-104. What a difference!

A few months ago I flew over Cajon Pass in my C182. I started out at 10500' but even at my best rate of climb I was losing 400 feet per min and did so for several minutes. I didn't watch traffic below, but I am sure I was not keeping up.

 

[Ddayle]

All the great advice & tips seem to be working. That combined with determined practice. Today when it got bumpy I was able to finally relax a bit and 'go with the flow'. Thanks for the suggestions and for sharing your experience. DaveR