Traveling to San Francisco (Wanting to fly around San Fran)

I will be leaving for San Francisco shortly and I appreciate all the information. I will be checking this thread so if anyone has any additional information I would appreciate it.
 
MAKG1 said:
And even that only happens when there is a significant westerly wind requiring using 28 for takeoff. Normally, 1 is used for takeoff, 28 for landing, leaving most of Class B pretty empty.
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I think 28 is used for takeoff by heavies because of the length.
 
You have to love AA perfect weather and the flight is delayed until 6:00PM. Man I need to buy my own plane. Even if I have to leave a day or two early LOL
 
Lol Departed gate at 6:00pm returned back to gate at 6:30 with water leak in galley.... Might get to San Francisco tonight...
 
I don't know what it is, but every time I set foot in DFW, something goes wrong. And it's random stuff, too, like the rental car getting a flat.
 
Inverted said:
I have never seen a 747 or similar use the 1s. It is always 28s unless they are on SE plan.
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While most traffic seems to use Rwy 1L or R, I have always taken off of Rwy 28L or R in the 747-400 because of weight. I was normally near max weight in the freighter going to ICN. Sometimes we have to wait to do it, but the 1's are too short for heavy take offs, even when you factor in the headwind.
 
MAKG1 said:
I don't know what it is, but every time I set foot in DFW, something goes wrong. And it's random stuff, too, like the rental car getting a flat.
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Well if there is anything I can do to help the next time your in the great state of Texas let me know...
 
MAKG1 said:
Even if ATC "put" you there, which they won't, it's your violation, not theirs.

Try not to BS. The bridge is not in class B, it's not under an airway, and it's a relatively high traffic area.
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Im not BS'ing...try not to think you know it all. Anyways, I said I have not been less than 1,500 but I know someone who told me they were given 1000 and crossed over the bridge without problems, whether its right or not, maybe he is BSing me and was really at 1500. ATC will restrict your altitude in that area precisely because its a high traffic area.
 
rkdF250 said:
You have to love AA perfect weather and the flight is delayed until 6:00PM. Man I need to buy my own plane. Even if I have to leave a day or two early LOL
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I know where a share in a very nice Bonanza can be found.
 
OK so though this member PM'ed me on Friday I was way too busy spending my time and money on Gastons.

I'm now back and of course broke but I figured better late than never and called him on his cell phone.

He has already arranged a plane and flight instructor out of Oakland, which is good, for Wednesday night. He needs night due to the Apple schedule.

(not sure how he's getting there without a car but I can't help out on Wednesday night - tomorrow - because I have a pilot meeting I can't get out of)

The only free day left for him before leaving was Friday night. Though the weather probably won't let us fly, since he doesn't have a car, I offered to drive after work to SF, pick him up, show him the good / unique SF Asian places to have dinner (Clement Street, Korean BBQ or Russian or Burmese or Thai). If the briefer says the TAF at 4pm will allow us to fly, we'll fly my plane instead. We are going to "wing it" as they say. After dinner, if we don't fly, I will show him around the SF area - just like I did when Brian from POA came out from the East Coast.

I'm glad to host out of town pilots.

Kimberly
 
Called the briefer. Darn it. A brand new presidential TFR (four of them actually) popped up for Friday and Saturday. The briefer pretty much told me to stay the heck away (even though the TFR ends 3nm and 3,000 feet AGL).

The bottom of the Bravo is 3,000 and then 2,100 so unless you were exactly at 3,000 and talking to ATC the risk of getting in trouble is just not worth it.
 
I wonder if Obama is going to close 101 at rush hour again like he did last time he was here. Which was like last week.

Sorry, dude. Your fundraising is NOT more important than several million people going home.

The good news is that these TFRs are much smaller than the usual ones. But they do cover most of the City, including the Golden Gate Bridge. It's questionable if we'll be able to use PAO (certainly, not the cityside downwind). Keep in mind the times on SkyVector are WRONG and there never is more than two of those active at any one time. http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_3_7837.html

Kim, request Bravo clearance. NorCal is quite helpful -- dial in the frequency in the blue boxes on the sectional, or just get flight following, and ask for clearance to wherever you're headed on the other side. If you have flight following from Oakland Center, you won't get clearance until you're handed off to NorCal. Whether you want to see the City from more than 3000 feet up or not is another question, but NorCal is not likely to be an obstacle.
 
From the relatively small size of the TFR, it has been speculated that this is the Vice President.
 
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POTUS is back again? The TFR areas are smaller than usual. Like MAKG said just request Bravo clearance. I've got cleared into the Bravo when stadium TFR's (Giants game) are going on. Been awhile since I did a Bay Tour. Got a plane reserved for tomorrow morning. :)
 
MAKG1 said:
I wonder if Obama is going to close 101 at rush hour again like he did last time he was here. Which was like last week.

Sorry, dude. Your fundraising is NOT more important than several million people going home.

The good news is that these TFRs are much smaller than the usual ones. But they do cover most of the City, including the Golden Gate Bridge. It's questionable if we'll be able to use PAO (certainly, not the cityside downwind). Keep in mind the times on SkyVector are WRONG and there never is more than two of those active at any one time. http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_3_7837.html

Kim, request Bravo clearance. NorCal is quite helpful -- dial in the frequency in the blue boxes on the sectional, or just get flight following, and ask for clearance to wherever you're headed on the other side. If you have flight following from Oakland Center, you won't get clearance until you're handed off to NorCal. Whether you want to see the City from more than 3000 feet up or not is another question, but NorCal is not likely to be an obstacle.
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I never get bravo clearance. We cancelled the plane and are doing dinner and sight seeing anyway. A front is coming in and the marin layer is coming back anyhow. Probably would've been socked in / out.
 
It is in fact Biden coming to town...should make work interesting tomorrow since I drive for a luxury car service...UGH. Between flying and that I am always stuck.
 
Palmpilot said:
From the relatively small size of the TFR, it has been speculated that this is the Vice President.
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I've always wondered why the VP gets a smaller TFR radius. Do they scramble faster jets to intercept your 172 when it's the VP? Can't be.

The only explanation I can think of is that maybe a VIP TFR is designed to be a symbol of power, and not really a security measure.
 
NoHeat said:
I've always wondered why the VP gets a smaller TFR radius. Do they scramble faster jets to intercept your 172 when it's the VP? Can't be.

The only explanation I can think of is that maybe a VIP TFR is designed to be a symbol of power, and not really a security measure.
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Well, also if you bust it they scramble T37s, vs F16s.
 
I called Nor Cal Approach. I'm going for it. My theory is this:

1. Talk to ATC as soon as possible. Skip Oakland Center. Dial Nor Cal from over the West side (ocean) when above TFR level (3000).

2. Don't ask for Bay Tour. Have a destination (KHAF) and ask for Bravo Clearance.

3. Coming home, ask for easterly route to Gnoss (KDVO) so on flight down Robert can see the ocean / lighthouse. On flight home he can see downtown / Alcatraz / Golden Gate Bridge.

Not a "Bay Tour" but still you get to see all the sights and land at an awesome airport:

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Sounds like a plan.

Watch for the marine layer. It was mostly clear this morning, but there were some clouds hanging over the peninsula mountains.

I'm not sure you need to contact NorCal when already at cruise. You can request a transition to XXXX (KHAF?) at 3500. They may want you to go in a straight line under conditions -- if so, they will give you a heading and/or altitude instruction. If they give you the more likely "stay west of 101," have at it. FYI, NorCal often needs to be prodded when transitioning at high altitude about what the north limit of that restriction is. They don't usually intend to make you stay west of the Golden Gate Bridge (especially if you call in from the east side).

If you call in from north of Angel Island, I'd expect the straight-line transition to KHAF to be pretty interesting. Should split between the Bridge and downtown. If you're at 3000, don't pass the north shore of that island without the magic words "Cleared into Class B." NorCal likes to give that clearance at the last second. Drives me nuts.

NorCal seems to want you at 4500 west of the mountains, not 3500 like the east side. The issue appears to be radar coverage. But I think that's a little further south than you're going.

You aren't going to take him over the Apple campus in Cupertino? Seems appropriate.... :) It's located near 85 and 280 (just south and east).
 
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MAKG1 said:
Sounds like a plan.

Watch for the marine layer. It was mostly clear this morning, but there were some clouds hanging over the peninsula mountains.

I'm not sure you need to contact NorCal when already at cruise. You can request a transition to XXXX (KHAF?) at 3500. They may want you to go in a straight line under conditions -- if so, they will give you a heading and/or altitude instruction. If they give you the more likely "stay west of 101," have at it. FYI, NorCal often needs to be prodded when transitioning at high altitude about what the north limit of that restriction is. They don't usually intend to make you stay west of the Golden Gate Bridge (especially if you call in from the east side).

If you call in from north of Angel Island, I'd expect the straight-line transition to KHAF to be pretty interesting. Should split between the Bridge and downtown. If you're at 3000, don't pass the north shore of that island without the magic words "Cleared into Class B." NorCal likes to give that clearance at the last second. Drives me nuts.

NorCal seems to want you at 4500 west of the mountains, not 3500 like the east side. The issue appears to be radar coverage. But I think that's a little further south than you're going.

You aren't going to take him over the Apple campus in Cupertino? Seems appropriate.... :) It's located near 85 and 280 (just south and east).
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Thanks, this really helps. With this many TFRs you bet I'm going to call NorCal.

Thanks for reminding me to say "transition" because they usually don't clear me through the Bravo so I've pretty much stopped asking / practicing.

I think I'll ask to transition through the Bravo at 3500. Destination Half Moon Bay. We'll see how they respond. So neat to have all of you as resources.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks, this really helps. With this many TFRs you bet I'm going to call NorCal.

Thanks for reminding me to say "transition" because they usually don't clear me through the Bravo so I've pretty much stopped asking / practicing.

I think I'll ask to transition through the Bravo at 3500. Destination Half Moon Bay. We'll see how they respond. So neat to have all of you as resources.
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Thank you for being a great ambassadress for the out of town visitors...
 
Why wouldnt you just call for Bay Tour though...in my experience it just lets norcal and sfo tower know your gonna be in the area cruising around, this includes heading north from KHAF or south to KHAF along the coast, but I guess its different if you want direct to KHAF.
 
On another note, I drove around the city for 15 hours today and it looked like an absolutely beautiful day to be flying around the bay...not driving
 
WOW!! What a flight and tour of San Francisco. The marine layer started to come in as we were lifting off but we went for it. Since Kimberly is a much better wordsmith then I, hopefully she will post the details of the trip. What I can say is that before this fight and tour of San Francisco I really only had one reason to come to San Francisco (WWDC 2013). Now, I will definitely be back to do some more flying. My new goal is to fly from the south tip to the north tip of California. At the very least I want to hit all the major cities and landmarks. I have flown in a lot of areas but this scenery blew the rest away. The mountains, sunset and marine layer make for a spectacular flight. I have some pictures and a few movies of the flight so I will post the links once they are uploaded. I would like to thank everyone on this thread, the POA family and especially Kimberly for a great flight and tour. If anyone ever makes it to the DFW area and gets stuck in the airport or is just visiting and wants to do some flying or dinning let me know.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks, this really helps. With this many TFRs you bet I'm going to call NorCal.
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They aren't presidential TFRs they are just VIP small stuff. I know you already did the flight but it doesn't look like they would mess a bay tour up at all.
 
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It was not an issue. Good thing I decided to go.

I will upload more pictures and videos to this thread later (courtesy of Robert), but for now here's the end of another gorgeous Bay Tour:

 
rkdF250 said:
WOW!! What a flight and tour of San Francisco. The marine layer started to come in as we were lifting off but we went for it. Since Kimberly is a much better wordsmith then I, hopefully she will post the details of the trip. What I can say is that before this fight and tour of San Francisco I really only had one reason to come to San Francisco (WWDC 2013). Now, I will definitely be back to do some more flying. My new goal is to fly from the south tip to the north tip of California. At the very least I want to hit all the major cities and landmarks. I have flown in a lot of areas but this scenery blew the rest away. The mountains, sunset and marine layer make for a spectacular flight. I have some pictures and a few movies of the flight so I will post the links once they are uploaded. I would like to thank everyone on this thread, the POA family and especially Kimberly for a great flight and tour. If anyone ever makes it to the DFW area and gets stuck in the airport or is just visiting and wants to do some flying or dinning let me know.
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That is awesome! It's great the plans didn't get scuttled by that &$%# marine layer, as was the case when I was out there and Kim graciously volunteered to give me the tour.
 
Great!

When I drove home that night, I observed that there was some marine layer offshore, but not past the coast. There is a spot on the commute home where I can see as far north as the golf course (6 miles down the coast from KHAF). It was a bit windy, but visibility was very good.

Yes, that bay tour is stunning. The only one I prefer over that locally is Pt. Reyes Lighthouse, but that's the foggiest place in California; it's often socked in even when HAF and even CEC are clear.

Robert, your next assignment is a flight over Lake Tahoe and/or Tioga Pass / Yosemite. :)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I called Nor Cal Approach. (snip snip)
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I'm late to the party and this is off topic, so forgive me...but where to people get the phone numbers for various ATC facilities? And when do you call, are you talking to a controller working airplanes at the same time? I can't imagine so. How does it all work?
 
jpower said:
I'm late to the party and this is off topic, so forgive me...but where to people get the phone numbers for various ATC facilities? And when do you call, are you talking to a controller working airplanes at the same time? I can't imagine so. How does it all work?
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This might help you with ATC phone numbers. I doubt the person you call on the phone is actually working as a controller at the same time. I think Kimberly called NorCal on the radio frequency.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
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It was not an issue. Good thing I decided to go.

I will upload more pictures and videos to this thread later (courtesy of Robert), but for now here's the end of another gorgeous Bay Tour:

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Very nice Kimberly, where was this taken?
 
ainokea said:
This might help you with ATC phone numbers. I doubt the person you call on the phone is actually working as a controller at the same time. I think Kimberly called NorCal on the radio frequency.
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Nope, on the phone. I was on hold forever but it was worth it.
 
jpower said:
I'm late to the party and this is off topic, so forgive me...but where to people get the phone numbers for various ATC facilities? And when do you call, are you talking to a controller working airplanes at the same time? I can't imagine so. How does it all work?
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I asked the briefer (1-800-wx-brief) but you can get the numbers in your friendly AFD.
 
Here is the video I created from all of the video footage. It was my first creation using some new tools so please keep that in mind..... LOL
 
ainokea said:
This might help you with ATC phone numbers. I doubt the person you call on the phone is actually working as a controller at the same time. I think Kimberly called NorCal on the radio frequency.
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That looks very handy. What do the (P) and (F) mean in front of the phone numbers?
 
Wow! Thanks for the video but we both know you were mostly the pilot! Except for radios and short final....
 
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