Transitioning to HP aircraft

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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I am a 150 hr. pilot with a nice (to me) Warrior. A coworker with an older C182 has been talking for a while about starting a partnership with me and trading up to something newer or faster or both. He sounds more serious lately. Bonanzas came up. Can a lower time pilot like me safely transition to such a craft?
 
Yes.

I went from renting Cessna 150s to flying a Bonanza. Insurance company required 10 hours of instruction before I was covered to fly solo.

That was a great airplane.....
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
Yes.

I went from renting Cessna 150s to flying a Bonanza. Insurance company required 10 hours of instruction before I was covered to fly solo.

That was a great airplane.....
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Curious, what was the premium, if I may ask? This, whole thing is a really new idea for me, one that I had not ever anticipated.
 
You will be fine. Just use a bit of common sense.

You don't need a CFI. What you should use is someone very familiar with the systems and the safe operation of the aircraft.

They put the bigger engine on a bigger airframe for a reason. Don't think it would be equivalent to putting a 300hp engine on a 152.
 
No problem,find a CFI who is current in the model. Will take a little getting used to on takeoff,with the prop torque and faster rate of climb.
 
The whole 'doctor killer' thing has me spooked, I guess. I like to think of myself as a careful, cautious pilot. I never considered HP flying, much but going faster sounds nice.
 
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Cpt_Kirk said:
You will be fine. Just use a bit of common sense.

You don't need a CFI. What you should use is someone very familiar with the systems and the safe operation of the aircraft.

They put the bigger engine on a bigger airframe for a reason. Don't think it would be equivalent to putting a 300hp engine on a 152.
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If the biggest thing he's ever flown is a Warrior and he plans on flying a Bonanza, he will indeed need a CFI sign off for both complex and high performance aircraft. When it comes to choosing a CFI for the transition training, the last thing he wants is some jackwad CFI of the street that don't know diddly squat about Bonanzas. Like all airplanes, they have their quirks and peccadilloes and having someone who is knowledgeable and well-versed in the type is exactly the guy you want to provide the transition training. But, as everyone has said, it's not a big deal. However, the insurance company is going to have a say in the type and amount of initial training you will be required to get. Bottom line, you will want to make sure your checklist habit is well developed and deeply rooted.
 
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Hi Reno,

I have a similar amount of experience as you and got my HP endorsement in a 182 this summer.

The process took longer than I expected, almost all of that time focused on cleaning up my landings -- faster groundspeed, big heavy nose, things get interesting fast if you get behind the power curve and allow a sink to develop.

The good news is that I suck less at landing and the 182 is a great airplane. I feel like going from a 160 hp trainer straight to a Bo would be a bit of a step, so maybe try to get some time in your buddy's 182 before he dumps it.

Good luck! I'm finding it's pretty hard to go back to an Archer or 172 now that I'm used to zooming around at 140 kts :)
 
Morgan3820 said:
The whole 'doctor killer' thing has me spooked, I guess. I like to think of myself as a careful, cautious pilot. I never considered HP flying, much but going faster sounds nice.
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Careful, cautious pilots are the kind of guys that don't have problems in HP aircraft. It's the other type that you want to steer clear of.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
You will be fine. Just use a bit of common sense.

You don't need a CFI. What you should use is someone very familiar with the systems and the safe operation of the aircraft.

They put the bigger engine on a bigger airframe for a reason. Don't think it would be equivalent to putting a 300hp engine on a 152.
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He WILL need a CFI for the Complex & HP endorsements. I had no problem with Complex when I had less than 70 hours total; with a few hundred Mooney hours, I recently picked up the HP endorsement in a 182. Nothing to it.

What will concern you is being behind the plane. It will get everywhere faster than you are expecting, and there is less preparation time for everything. Then you will need to learn how to slow down . . .

Good luck, and fly safe!
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
You don't need a CFI.
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Yes, you do. You can't get the FAA-required HP and complex endorsements any other way, and I don't think I've ever heard of an insurer who would cover a 150-hour Warrior pilot in a Bonanza without a certain amount of training from a CFI. How much time with an instructor may vary, but with that experience going in, it's likely to be on the higher side of 10 hours, especially if one does not already have an instrument rating. The insurer may also require some amount of solo time after completing the training before covering flight with passengers.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The whole 'doctor killer' thing has me spooked, I guess. I like to think of myself as a careful, cautious pilot.
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If you are, then you have nothing to worry about. If you aren't, you could get killed pretty much as easily in your Warrior.

The whole "fork-tailed doctor-killer" business came more from the fact that Bonanzas were popular with many doctors in the 70's, mainly because it was the most performance they could get without getting a ME rating, and ME ratings required more skill and proficiency than they could achieve. They'd then get into situations they couldn't handle (often due to their ego writing checks their skills couldn't cash), and then die in their Bonanza. If you really are careful and cautious, and have a well-developed sense of your personal limitations as a pilot, and you stay within those limits, you have nothing to worry about.
 
Join ABS the Bonanza society and do the BPP program if you are looking to get into a Bonanza. Great planes but they have their quirks and things happen faster plus need to get used to retract landing gear and the constant speed prop.
 
Bonanzas do not kill doctors. Doctors kill Bonanzas.

The Bo is one of the easiest airplanes to fly.
I never understood why some people complain about Mooney landing characteristics until I flew the Bonanza.

Wow.

Very easy, and makes me look good.
 
Lots of good advise here. To pick a seasoned CFI I think is most important, rather than one who hasn't got a whole lot more hours than you do. Many WW2 pilots were flying P51s, spits, B17s, on and on, with same time you have. The teacher makes a big difference.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The whole 'doctor killer' thing has me spooked, I guess. I like to think of myself as a careful, cautious pilot. I never considered HP flying, much but going faster sounds nice.
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If they called is a "more money than brains killer" would you still be spooked?

It's just a somewhat slick aircraft, nothing special.

With 150tt you'll be fine as long as you keep somewhat current in it.

Go find yourself a experienced CFI and have fun.


skynewbie said:
Join ABS the Bonanza society and do the BPP program if you are looking to get into a Bonanza.
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Not sure you need to do all that.

I joined the Seaplane Pilots Association when I bought my 185, that's money I'll never get back, I actually sent in corrections for half a dozen lakes in their little database, and their forum isn't nearly as good as backcountrypilot for seaplane stiff :rolleyes2:
 
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Morgan3820 said:
I am a 150 hr. pilot with a nice (to me) Warrior. A coworker with an older C182 has been talking for a while about starting a partnership with me and trading up to something newer or faster or both. He sounds more serious lately. Bonanzas came up. Can a lower time pilot like me safely transition to such a craft?
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Yes. More right rudder.
 
skynewbie said:
Join ABS the Bonanza society and do the BPP program if you are looking to get into a Bonanza. Great planes but they have their quirks and things happen faster plus need to get used to retract landing gear and the constant speed prop.
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James331 said:
Not sure you need to do all that.

I joined the Seaplane Pilots Association when I bought my 185, that's money I'll never get back, I actually sent in corrections for half a dozen lakes in their little database, and their forum isn't nearly as good as backcountrypilot for seaplane stiff :rolleyes2:
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The ABS and its BPPP are both excellent. While there are plenty of non-BPPP instructors who can give you high quality Bonanza type training, you are pretty well guaranteed that quality with the ABS and BPPP without further ado. Also, ABS provides excellent material and technical benefits to its members well beyond the BPPP. If I owned a Bonanza, I'd certainly be a member.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I am a 150 hr. pilot with a nice (to me) Warrior. A coworker with an older C182 has been talking for a while about starting a partnership with me and trading up to something newer or faster or both. He sounds more serious lately. Bonanzas came up. Can a lower time pilot like me safely transition to such a craft?
Click to expand...

Yes, no worries, trim becomes more important, including rudder trim.
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
Bonanzas do not kill doctors. Doctors kill Bonanzas.

The Bo is one of the easiest airplanes to fly.
I never understood why some people complain about Mooney landing characteristics until I flew the Bonanza.

Wow.

Very easy, and makes me look good.
Click to expand...

Well, doctors have more practice at killing, usually they get away with it. An airplane is a hell of a karma sync tool.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I am a 150 hr. pilot with a nice (to me) Warrior. A coworker with an older C182 has been talking for a while about starting a partnership with me and trading up to something newer or faster or both. He sounds more serious lately. Bonanzas came up. Can a lower time pilot like me safely transition to such a craft?
Click to expand...


Have you flown your buddies 182? You can't find a more docile HP aircraft than a skylane.

I've only flown right seat in a Bonanza. It was boring and very straightforward and docile.

Get some TW time. Work up to landing in bad winds with a CFI. It will multiply your confidence level X 10. :yesnod:
 
Morgan3820 said:
Curious, what was the premium, if I may ask? This, whole thing is a really new idea for me, one that I had not ever anticipated.
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I have about 120hrs, in cherokees and 172s. I recently got a quote on insurance for a Mooney M20B, and was quoted roughly $1600/year with a requirement of 10 hours training and 5 hours solo before passengers. Since then I got my Complex endorsement and have been building some retract time in an Arrow. Called back for another quote on an M20C and got 2 different quotes, one for about the same price but only a 5 hour dual and 5 hour solo requirement and one for about $100 more that only required a checkout.
 
Our 3 man partnership bought a 77 Lance last spring. Insurance was based on the lowest pilot's hours (mine). I had about 140 TT at the time, had about 20 hours in Make / model though. Our Insurance was $2500. Interestingly, I didn't need a checkout, but the other guys had to have a CFI checkout / sign off. No hour time was noted, just had to have the CFI sign them off. All of us were already signed off for HP / complex.
 
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