Transitioning Charlie to land at Delta

flytime

flytime

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Fly Time
I have had my PPL for just under a year now, and due to where I live and fly, I have never had the occasion, either in flight training or as PIC, to operate in class C airspace. I operate out of a class D airport and have transitioned B many times, but only on an established VFR transition corridor.

This weekend I am planning a cross country flight to a class D airport (KSFF Spokane Felts Field) which underlies class C airspace (KGEG Spokane International and Fairchild AFB ). The most efficient way for me to approach is directly through class C from the west, descending through class C as I approach KSFF, which is located at the eastern edge of class C.

As we all know, for any given scenario, it is always best to anticipate what clearances and instructions ATC is likely to provide. Within 20 NM of KGEG, I will:

1) call Spokane approach, report position, altitude and that I have current ATIS
2) tell them I will be descending to land at Felts

What can I expect as a response? Vectors through C? Altitude assignment? Or more general clearance to enter C and descend at my discretion?
 
You could do that but it would be simpler to make a FF call (can you do that on ground at your airport?), terminating at Felts.
 
Atc will give you a squack code,altitude and heading to fit you in the flow of traffic. It's a piece of cake.
 
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By far the easiest way to transition Class C is with flight following.

You may get asked your intentions about crossing the primary airport's extended centerline (midfield works real well), but that's about it. If it's really hairy, you might get a course or altitude restriction, but that's not very likely. If you do, do what they say.

If your home airport will give you flight following on the ground, that's easiest. Failing that, contact Approach or Center as soon as you can when airborne and ask for it.

If you're not already talking to Approach as you near Class C, you'll be handed off. That takes care of the airspace requirements. You're done unless you get an instruction. And in a sleepy Class C, you won't.

On a good day, Approach will not say a single thing to you aside from normal traffic calls.

A few weeks ago, I did some sightseeing inside the Monterey Class C. As long as I was off the runway centerline, Tower didn't care. I got one traffic call for a Learjet inbound from the south over Carmel. I told them I intended to cross midfield at 2000 on my way out, but they didn't ask for it. I got handed off to approach as I climbed afterward.
 
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Remember that the only reason Class C airspace exists is to keep ATC current on who is flying in their airspace and their intentions....period. Once you have called them and advised them of your position, altitude, squawk, and intentions, they can keep you from swapping paint with someone. Still keep your head on a swivel. If you are given an instruction, follow it. Not a big deal.

Bob Gardner
 
Sac Arrow said:
You could do that but it would be simpler to make a FF call (can you do that on ground at your airport?), terminating at Felts.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I may do that as I will be flying over some pretty big mountains. That brings up another question...another one of those things that I have not learned through experience yet.

Normally when I use FF it is underneath class B to start, and I will adjust my altitude as I progress without announcing my intentions. When flying toward home, I do the same, progressively reducing my altitude as I pass underneath the various B shelves without announcing my intentions.

For this flight, my descent from cruise altitude will be through class C, and at the start of my descent I will already have been handed off to approach. Do I wait for them to tell me to descend? Do I ask them for a descent? Or do I just descend at my discretion since I would technically be cleared into C at that point anyway.
 
flytime said:
Yeah, I may do that as I will be flying over some pretty big mountains. That brings up another question...another one of those things that I have not learned through experience yet.

Normally when I use FF it is underneath class B to start, and I will adjust my altitude as I progress without announcing my intentions. When flying toward home, I do the same, progressively reducing my altitude as I pass underneath the various B shelves without announcing my intentions.

For this flight, my descent from cruise altitude will be through class C, and at the start of my descent I will already have been handed off to approach. Do I wait for them to tell me to descend? Do I ask them for a descent? Or do I just descend at my discretion since I would technically be cleared into C at that point anyway.
Click to expand...

"Cessna XXX, contact Approach at..."

"Approach, Cessna XXXXX descending through 2,600 feet."
 
Thanks everyone. Trying something for the first time is so much easier when you know what to expect!
 
Class C is much less of a Big Deal than class B. When you get about 25 miles from the outer ring just call the approach control.

As soon as you hear the controller say your callsign you're golden. If the controller ignores you, then stay well clear of the ten mile ring around the airport.

Once you hear the controller transmit your callsign you're golden, head for the airport and tell the controller where you want to go and that you have the current ATIS. You'll probably get a vector right away.

Just do what the nice man/women on the radio says and go land. They will tell you when to switch to tower, or if he/she seems to forget about you when you are roughly five miles from the airport just tell the controller that you have the field in sight.
 
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flytime said:
For this flight, my descent from cruise altitude will be through class C, and at the start of my descent I will already have been handed off to approach. Do I wait for them to tell me to descend? Do I ask them for a descent? Or do I just descend at my discretion since I would technically be cleared into C at that point anyway.
Click to expand...

Second on the recommendation for flight following. They can help you out a lot here.

Just remember you're not on an IFR flight plan so they don't really know your intended route of flight or altitude (other than your final destination) unless you tell them. If they don't ask you your intentions just give the flight following controller a heads up as to what you would like to do and they should coordinate with the appropriate ATC (if it's not them directly) to get you vectors across the C airspace to your destination.
 
If I am just a mile or so out of outside of the class C, do I contact approach or the control tower if I just want to transit through the airspace?


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RalphInCA said:
If I am just a mile or so out of outside of the class C, do I contact approach or the control tower if I just want to transit through the airspace?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You should always make first contact with Approach. For incoming traffic tower is only expecting to talk to people that have been handed to them by Approach.

Depending on how close you get to the field and how busy the airport is they may hand you off to the tower if you're just transitioning, but likely you will just stay with the approach/departure controller.
 
flytime said:
Yeah, I may do that as I will be flying over some pretty big mountains. That brings up another question...another one of those things that I have not learned through experience yet.

Normally when I use FF it is underneath class B to start, and I will adjust my altitude as I progress without announcing my intentions. When flying toward home, I do the same, progressively reducing my altitude as I pass underneath the various B shelves without announcing my intentions.

For this flight, my descent from cruise altitude will be through class C, and at the start of my descent I will already have been handed off to approach. Do I wait for them to tell me to descend? Do I ask them for a descent? Or do I just descend at my discretion since I would technically be cleared into C at that point anyway.
Click to expand...

You are VFR!!!! It is good manners to tell them that you are beginning your descent, but you are on your own....unless they say "Advise prior to descent."

Bob Gardner
 
RalphInCA said:
If I am just a mile or so out of outside of the class C, do I contact approach or the control tower if I just want to transit through the airspace?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Tower airspace is about five miles in diameter...Approach Control airspace is thirty miles or more in radius....much larger than what is depicted as Class C. The tower has no interest in you whatsoever until you are just outside their airspace.

Flight following is the answer...pick it up ASAP after takeoff.
Bob Gardner
 
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Agree with what everyone says. Tell Approach your intentions, follow the instructions, and enjoy the ride.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
You should always make first contact with Approach. For incoming traffic tower is only expecting to talk to people that have been handed to them by Approach.

Depending on how close you get to the field and how busy the airport is they may hand you off to the tower if you're just transitioning, but likely you will just stay with the approach/departure controller.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. Thanks.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
You should always make first contact with Approach. For incoming traffic tower is only expecting to talk to people that have been handed to them by Approach.

Depending on how close you get to the field and how busy the airport is they may hand you off to the tower if you're just transitioning, but likely you will just stay with the approach/departure controller.
Click to expand...

Tower seldom (ever?) controls the entire Class C airspace. Same deal in Class B and D. The upper part is controlled by Approach.

The sectional says to contact Approach, so that's what you do. UNLESS you have been given instructions otherwise. E.g., KRHV will hand you off to San Jose Tower if they know you want to transit the airspace. The same thing happens in KSFO Class B when leaving from KSQL -- you talk to San Francisco Tower and remain below 2000. The KLAX Mini Route is similar, but it's more constrained. Higher transitions talk to SoCal.

If you get it wrong, you'll be handed off. Just make sure you know where the boundary is, as you'll have to remain clear while you sort it out.
 
Several of you are saying to get flight following for the entire flight, which will give me clearance through class C to my destination, so that is what I will do.

But it makes me realize that I've misunderstood an element of FF. One of my favorite short-hop destinations from Seattle is the San Juan islands, and flying there direct takes you through Whidbey Island NAS class C. It's the only class C airspace nearby, and since it is there solely for a military base, I have always avoided it, either going around or over the top, even when talking to Whidbey approach for flight following.

But if I understand correctly, if I've been handed off to Whidbey NAS approach, then I can fly through it, right? Or is that assuming too much?
 
Unless it's restricted airspace or a TFR, or the traffic is really hairy, no problem.

I transition Travis AFB every once in a while, which is Class D with an Alert SUA around it. The Alert is because of really low time C-5 drivers. Unlike the usual Class D, Travis has its own Approach, more like a Class C.

If you read the Whidbey A/FD entry, they start the overhead from 3000 MSL, so you may want to cross midfield real high, or else cross elsewhere at a lower altitude. There may be some screaming fighter jets flying around there, as the overhead is a high speed maneuver (at least initially). Public aircraft are not limited to 250 KIAS.

Some people even like to practice approaches at Federal/military airports. Just don't touch the pavement without PPR. Moffett (KNUQ) has a convenient ILS approach with almost no traffic. Looks real hairy for the safety pilot, though. (BTDT :) ) IAF is pretty close to a mountain peak with buildings on it, and they break off at 200 AGL. KNUQ is Class D and it's next to impossible to get around here without transitioning it.
 
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flytime said:
Several of you are saying to get flight following for the entire flight, which will give me clearance through class C to my destination, so that is what I will do.

But it makes me realize that I've misunderstood an element of FF. One of my favorite short-hop destinations from Seattle is the San Juan islands, and flying there direct takes you through Whidbey Island NAS class C. It's the only class C airspace nearby, and since it is there solely for a military base, I have always avoided it, either going around or over the top, even when talking to Whidbey approach for flight following.

But if I understand correctly, if I've been handed off to Whidbey NAS approach, then I can fly through it, right? Or is that assuming too much?
Click to expand...

It's been awhile, but as I recall it goes Seattle Approach/Departure, Seattle Center (125.1?), Whidbey Approach. Tag up with Whidbey: Posotion, altitude, squawk, intentions....and motor on through. As I mentioned in another post, the airspace controlled by a TRACON (Terminal Radar Approach Control) is much larger than that depicted as Class C, so you will be in Whidbey's airspace the whole time you are in the islands. This doesn't impose any duty on you, just a friendly voice when you need one.

Bob Gardner
 
They will likely give you a xpndr code if you are coming into the Charlie on a 1200 code unless you're already on FF. They will then identify you on radar and may give you intructions depending on how busy they are or they may just say "radar contact .... VFR decent your discretion", as you approach the D airspace they will most likely just hand you off to the tower and everything should be like a normal class D entry from there.
 
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I fly in the SF Bay Area. Returning to KPAO from southerly directions is very similar to the situation you described. It's a bit more complex on the sectional (transit Moffet class D under San Jose's class C under SFO's class B ), but just as easy on the radio. Here's a sample script of what you may expect:

N12345: NorCal, N12345 <position> <altitude> VFR Palo Alto
NorCal: Squawk 4123, ident
(a few sec)
NorCal: Radar contact 5 west of south county. advise information whiskey at Palo Alto
N12345: affirmative Whiskey
(you may get assigned headings or altitudes. if not, start descent as normal)
NorCal: Contact Moffet tower on 119.55.
N12345: 119.55, N12345.
N12345: Moffet Tower, N12345 3000 descending
Moffet:transition approved at or above 1500
(keep descending, but follow instructions)
(a few more minutes)
Moffet: Contact Palo Alto tower on 118.6
N12345: 118.6
N12345: Palo Alto Tower, N12345 one thousand seven hundred with whiskey
Palo Alto: N12345 make straight in, number one, cleared to land

ATC will just hand you off as you progress. Easy peezy. :yesnod:
 
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