Transistioning to the DA20

MassPilot

MassPilot

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An airport nearby recently acquired a 2004 Diamond DA20 Eclipse, and it is available for rental. I have about 90 hours in C172SP's and I'm current. I have flown nothing else.

Any idea how long a checkout in the DA20 might take? I understand it has control sticks which are more sensitive than yokes, a free castering nose wheel, T-tail, and a much slicker airframe. Any other big differences from what I'm used to? Thanks.
 
The hardest part is going to be wiping the smile off your face. enjoy it, fun airplane to fly.
 
My guess is it will only take a few hours. I learned in a DA20 Eclipse, and then I transitioned to a Cessna 172 and 177B.

The biggest thing you will notice is that it has a much shallower glide ratio. This is because the plane's roots are in gliders. You really need to watch that you are not coming in too fast, or you will land long, and may need to do a go around. Also, power on stalls are hard to do because it doesn't really like to give a nice clean break. It will just kind of wallow through the air. It's an easy plane to fly otherwise. It's pretty forgiving, and very safe. It can be quite hot on the ground because of the buble canopy.
 
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That sounds a lot like transitioning from a 172 to a Grumman, and I've taken a lot of people through that transition. Based on that, and your stated level of experience and proficiency, I'm guessing 2-3 hours of flying plus an hour or two on the ground to cover systems and procedures first. Might take more, depending on your actual proficiency (too many pilots seem to have a significantly higher opinion of their own proficiency than is formed in my mind the first time I fly with them), but it's not likely to take less if done properly.
 
tonycondon said:
The hardest part is going to be wiping the smile off your face. enjoy it, fun airplane to fly.
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:yeahthat:

Power on stalls are the most fun in this aircraft. The canopy view, the reclined seat, and the AoA required to stall make you feel like you're going straight up and hanging on the prop.

The stick is easy to transition too. In many cases, a more natural movement than the yoke. Trimmed correctly, it's fingerprint pressure to make small changes.

The biggest challenge is to be on the correct speeds for approach and landing. That glider wing wants to continue to fly. 4-5kts or more too fast and you're gonna float a ways down the runway.

Enjoy the usage! Speedy aircraft, low fuel burn, and loads of fun.


Finally, make sure to get the full tutorial on the ultra sophisticated remaining fuel measuring device. (Even Kimberly can figure out this one).
 
It varies a lot depending on experience and proficiency. You mentioned that you've only flown a 172. The first transition is usually the most difficult one since the differences tend to get magnified by that lack of experience (think about how weird it felt the first time you drove a car that was different than the one you learned in). But even then, I think 2-3 hours is a likely maximum and it could be as quick as the first flight.

For most, the stick is the easiest part of the transition; a lot realize it's a non-event in the first 6 seconds after after the first takeoff. More significant differences with a 172 for a first-transition are the non-steering castering nosewheel and the comparatively low visual deck angle when landing.
 
Some have mentioned the differential braking for steering on the ground. It is true-- there is no linkage to the nose wheel. I learned to give a shot of power when trying to turn sharply to force more wind against the rudder. That seems to help bring her around and get the nose wheel to swing in the right direction.
 
midlifeflyer said:
...and it could be as quick as the first flight.
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I do not like signing off someone with that low an experience level after only one flight in a new type, even if the second flight is just 30 minutes in/near the pattern after we've ground-debriefed the first flight. Just want to make sure it all sank in.
 
I've owned a DA20 for 9 years and I'm still totally in love with it:goofy:. The stick took less than an hour to feel perfectly natural. As others have said, landing speed control is the biggest challenge (think Mooney on steroids). But it's so much fun to practice dead-stick landings from 15 miles out -- I've done that numerous times.

The only advantage a Cessna has is hands-off stability.

;););)
 
Have fun! The view/canopy make you feel the speed more, especially on takeoff. I had about an hr in the da20 and got my official checkout a year later in 1 hr, which included 3 landings at night. Probably depends on the instructor.

Not sure if it is "lazy" but putting full flaps in starting abeam the numbers helps keep the speed under control. Don't turn base until your speed is under control (75-80 if I remember)
 
Hi MassPilot,

I flew a review of the DA20 for a magazine some time back.

If you'd like a copy of the PDF, PM me and I'll email it to you.

Cheers,

Owen
 
I got checked out in a DA20 after about 75 hours in 172s. It took <3 hours. Excellent plane, I'd fly one all the time if I still had access to one.
 
2 hours, tops, if you have airspeed discipline. The high aspect ratio is not tolerant to a wide spread of landing speeds. By the end of the demo ride, in which I did slow flight, stalled, and spun it (intentionally) I was pretty comfortable....get the landing speed right and it's a puddy tat.
 
bbchien said:
2 hours, tops, if you have airspeed discipline.
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That and any new systems seems to have been key to numerous transitions for me over the years.

Some glider time and/or an IR will fix any tendencies toward crappy airspeed control in anyone you meet who can't hold an airspeed worth a crap.

I've met a couple. Their altitude/power control issues also settled in nicely after a glider CFI barked at them about airspeed enough times.

The glider gives such an enormous amount of audible feedback on airspeed that it "switches on their ears" as one friend put it.

IR, it's about precision timing and getting a feel if you're fast or slow overall from what the numbers show your performance to be.
 
The instructor who checked me out in a DA20 wouldn't clear me to rent it until I demonstrated a no-flaps landing, I guess so I'd be prepared in the case of electrical failure. I pulled the power back to idle abeam midfield, extended my downwind, and still cleared the threshold.

I'd flown Champs and Cessnas to that point. The stick and the diff braking were no big deal to get used to, but the glide ratio sure was. And fun!

I proposed to my wife, Cindy, during a romantic night sightseeing flight in a DA20. She said yes, so I know the plane is a winner.

You'll also have to squint harder to detect your fuel purchases on your credit card statement, whether it's the Continental or the Rotax. Sweet plane!
 
bbchien said:
2 hours, tops, if you have airspeed discipline. The high aspect ratio is not tolerant to a wide spread of landing speeds. By the end of the demo ride, in which I did slow flight, stalled, and spun it (intentionally) I was pretty comfortable....get the landing speed right and it's a puddy tat.
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Big difference between your experience level when you did that and someone with 90TT all in 172's. I was more like the OP, with about 85TT in 150's when I first checked out in a Yankee, and that was a big step -- took two sessions and about three hours to get it right.
 
Just got back from a fly-in and was reminded of another important factor: the prettiest girls all want a ride in the Diamond; never had one show any interest in a Cessna. :yes:
 
All the 2-3 hour recommendations are probably spot on. A bit of reference, I bought a DA40 just before earning my PP in a 172. For a brand new pilot, insurance required only 5 hours duel time. :). Hardest part for me was adjusting to the more reclined seats and site picture, kept flaring too high.
 
MassPilot said:
An airport nearby recently acquired a 2004 Diamond DA20 Eclipse, and it is available for rental. I have about 90 hours in C172SP's and I'm current. I have flown nothing else.

Any idea how long a checkout in the DA20 might take? I understand it has control sticks which are more sensitive than yokes, a free castering nose wheel, T-tail, and a much slicker airframe. Any other big differences from what I'm used to? Thanks.
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What is the panel like in the DA20? What were the panels like in the C172s?
 
spiderweb said:
What is the panel like in the DA20? What were the panels like in the C172s?
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Many panels in the DA20 are the standard 6-pack, wet compass in the panel, GNS430, SL40 (or similar), single CDI head, Garmin 327, but some have the 330 with TIS.

172 panels vary widely on model year and what the owners have or haven't done to update them. Too much variety to provide an answer.
 
Gnomad said:
For a brand new pilot, insurance required only 5 hours duel time. :).
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Sounds dangerous. I'd rather fly.
images
 
midlifeflyer said:
Sounds dangerous. I'd rather fly.
images
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My buddy TexAg93 was on the fencing team back in college.

I told him I wasn't aware barbed wire was accepted by the olympic committee
 
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