Tragic Utah Crash Involving a “1966 Cessna Piper 28-21490”

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FlyingElvii

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flyingElvii
The circumstances of the crash are truly tragic, to be sure. The Female pilot was very experienced, and sounds like a hell of a person to have known. This post is not about that.

We make memes about how the media describes these things, but here it is, in real life, from the article:

“Federal Aviations Administration lists that Seigel had a commercial pilot certificate and instrument qualifications for helicopters and had private privileges for a single engine land airplane like her 1966 Cessna Piper 28-21490 she was flying Thursday.”

https://www.havredailynews.com/stor...ughter-die-in-plane-crash-in-utah/534367.html
 
What's a "Cessna Piper"? Very tragic. Would like to know more on what happened with the pilot being so experienced.
 
Good lord. Killed her little granddaughter and started a wildfire. I’d feel awful in the afterlife.

I’m anxious to find out what happened, doesn’t look like your average idiot pilot. I wonder what kind of trouble she got into?

and I’d like to know what a Cessna Piper is too.
 
Rushie said:
Good lord. Killed her little granddaughter and started a wildfire. I’d feel awful in the afterlife.

I’m anxious to find out what happened, doesn’t look like your average idiot pilot. I wonder what kind of trouble she got into?

and I’d like to know what a Cessna Piper is too.
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DA’s have been insanely high in the west for the past several days. There have been more than a few accidents this week.
 
Disclaimer:the following humor is directed at the manufacturer faux pas, not making light of the tragedy behind it...


But Cessna Piper made me think of this...
 
Racerx said:
What's a "Cessna Piper"? Very tragic. Would like to know more on what happened with the pilot being so experienced.
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Not trying to discount this tragic events, but then it is important to be able to properly interpret the media reporting.

Please refer the the Uninterested Reporters Standard Guide and Dictionary to Reporting Aviation.

Cessna = Any small usually single engine aircraft, might be an airplane, might have more than one engine. Sometimes high wing.

I have misplaced my copy and don’t recall exactly what Piper means.
I know in one context Piper means, any yellow and black, antique looking airplane, but I think they used a different meaning in this context, which I recall in part means a Low Wing Small Airplane for those reporters that want to put a bit of effort into the reporting and sound like they might have a clue about airplanes. Ie. Knowing more names the “Cessna” although “Cessna” and “Piper Cub” can be used interchangeably.

:)

Brian

Racerx said:
What's a "Cessna Piper"? Very tragic. Would like to know more on what happened with the pilot being so experienced.
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..and every Boeing product is now, or is somehow related to, a MAX
 
For clarity, I'm aware the media/reporters rarely get anything right when it's GA related... actually can say that about a lot of topics. But seriously, you give the serial number but can't figure out the make?

As far as the tragedy itself... High DA. I would hope a pilot that experienced knows DA. Although looking at registration, this looks like a fairly recent purchase so perhaps unfamiliar with the limits in that environment. Ugh.
 
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Racerx said:
For clarity, I'm aware the media/reporters rarely get anything right when it's GA related... actually can say that about a lot of topics. But seriously, you give the serial number but can't figure out the model?

As far as the tragedy itself... High DA. I would hope a pilot that experienced knows DA. Although looking at registration, this looks like a fairly recent purchase so perhaps unfamiliar with the limits in that environment. Ugh.
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Looks like she was crossing a ridge with two mountains at 10,300, and another at 11,000, near Johnson Pass at 6400. The wilderness area mentioned is on the western side.

No idea what the DA was at the time, but someone will find it. Been an awful lot of these already this summer.
 
Sad tale indeed. Other reports mention time of day about 930pm, just getting dark. And, the flight was supposedly on an IDA-CDC leg, crash site on the side of one of those taller mountains mentioned, right on the magenta line.
RIP.
 
She was very experienced, but sounds like most of her flight time was in rotors. Not sure how much of that applies to fixed wings.
 
Someone on BeechTalk overlaid the FlightAware track on Google earth. Makes it pretty clear what (with 99% likelihood) happened and that's CFIT. May or may not have been fully dark but it was close.

Horrible that a woman lost her mom and child in an instant.
 
Blatham489 said:
Someone on BeechTalk overlaid the FlightAware track on Google earth. Makes it pretty clear what (with 99% likelihood) happened and that's CFIT. May or may not have been fully dark but it was close.

Horrible that a woman lost her mom and child in an instant.
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So Flightaware was available before and now it's not? Do people go in and take it down because an accident happened? I can't see the Beechtalk post unless I create an account. Hubby has one, when he gets home maybe he'll let me log in with his.
 
Rushie said:
So Flightaware was available before and now it's not? Do people go in and take it down because an accident happened? I can't see the Beechtalk post unless I create an account. Hubby has one, when he gets home maybe he'll let me log in with his.
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On the BT post, not from Flightaware, but a flight planner/sim combo for that sobering image posted. The accident airplane does not appear to have any recent Flightaware tracks. Probably not ADS-B equipped, one might conjecture the route was selected to remain clear of Salt Lake Mode C airspace, and below 10,000MSL(or 2500AGL), a lethal combination in near dark and high terrain. Probably never know for sure, with extensive fire damage and little info to go on.
 
Sounds too speculative for my taste to declare cfit.
 
Agreed speculative. It looks like it was about 20 mins after sunset. That is on the west side of the Great Salt Lake and a lot fewer lights over there to indicate the presence of a mountain. There was a full moon.

Flying over mountains at night in a single is not a choice I would normally make with passengers, and only rarely solo.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Agreed speculative. It looks like it was about 20 mins after sunset. That is on the west side of the Great Salt Lake and a lot fewer lights over there to indicate the presence of a mountain. There was a full moon.

Flying over mountains at night in a single is not a choice I would normally make with passengers, and only rarely solo.
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I have never flown at night VFR out of Juneau. Even with the longer days we get in the summer, it's something I don't do. Flying in SE AK is fun, night VFR is a no go for me.
 
Salt Laker here. The TFR for the fire is still in effect. And I have no idea why she would be transiting west in that location. Staying over I-80 to Wendover is the only sensible path IMO. So sad.
 
Media blunders regarding aviation are so common it's not worth commenting on.

Very sad that they were lost on a trip to meet great grandpa for the first time. Rest easy, little one.
 
nKeNvcmYnYxnI-Nk2EdAiHnn-GPo-j6AgYy2-M3bWVY.jpg
 
More info

So, the plan was to fly south from KIDA to KCDC.

Personally, I’ve flown KSLC to KIDA round trip, as well as KSLC to KCDC round trip.

There is some desolate terrain between KIDA and KSLC which I’ve had to deal with (day and night). If not at altitude FF is not an option in that area. But from KSLC to KCDC one can follow I-15 southbound all the way and have FF all the way. I was day VFR with FF so I did shortcut a bit, but the terrain is flat and not a major concern in an emergency situation. Provided day VFR. And I was with FF.

This pilot was flying at night, and I’m guessing not on FF based on the track west of KSLC into the granite area. The pilot could have easily requested FF through the Bravo while well north and stayed over I-15 south all the way to KCDC. Instead of what happened. Just sickening to think instead of using ATC intentionally avoiding controlled airspace to end this way.
 
Wow, deliberately flying at night over mountainous terrain with a passenger and clearing terrain by small amounts. Terrible ADM. So sorry for the families loss.

I do wonder if plane not equipped with ADS-B out so poor choices being made.
 
woodchucker said:
More info

So, the plan was to fly south from KIDA to KCDC.

Personally, I’ve flown KSLC to KIDA round trip, as well as KSLC to KCDC round trip.

There is some desolate terrain between KIDA and KSLC which I’ve had to deal with (day and night). If not at altitude FF is not an option in that area. But from KSLC to KCDC one can follow I-15 southbound all the way and have FF all the way. I was day VFR with FF so I did shortcut a bit, but the terrain is flat and not a major concern in an emergency situation. Provided day VFR. And I was with FF.

This pilot was flying at night, and I’m guessing not on FF based on the track west of KSLC into the granite area. The pilot could have easily requested FF through the Bravo while well north and stayed over I-15 south all the way to KCDC. Instead of what happened. Just sickening to think instead of using ATC intentionally avoiding controlled airspace to end this way.
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Thanks. From the link within your link:

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/103287/pdf

Sheesh... what was she thinking!?
 
FlyingElvii said:
After reading that, why does it seem like fatigue?
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Yep. Seems like this:

“...the pilot opted to fly overnight to avoid the heat and turbulence associated with flying over the desert, and had planned to sleep for two hours in the airport during the stop at CDC.“

...was the first bad decision. How bad can the “heat and turbulence” in the daytime be? I don’t know, I’ve never flown in that area. Someone will have to tell me if that’s reasonable. Maybe she wanted to make the trip as smooth as possible for the kid.

But unless she was on a graveyard shift sleep schedule, her circadian rhythm would have been off, and two hours in an FBO lounge might be better than nothing but isn’t going to get you at the top of your game. As it was she didn’t even get that far. They started around 4 pm (the time of day I need a nap!) and the accident happened around 11 pm after one stop.

I think she might have lost situational awareness and thought she was west of the mountains, and the crossing over the northern section of the range at 400' agl was unintentional, she may not have been aware of it at the time, then, later, realizing she was off course, the fatal turn back west was an attempted correction.

A better plan would have been to make it a two day trip and fly in the mornings. Let the kid swim in a hotel pool that afternoon, treat her to dinner and an overnight stay watching TV in a comfy room, finish the trip the next morning. That's what I would have done.

Having said that, this is all speculation and I realize I'm armchair quarterbacking. Whatever happened I'm sure she didn't intend this outcome and but for the grace of God go I, I've certainly made some real screw ups in my life, especially when younger, I just got lucky. May they RIP.
 
Rushie said:
How bad can the “heat and turbulence” in the daytime be
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If that area flown over is like around my small part of the world, Rough. Ruff. I mean it can be hang on for all it's worth because it ain't getting better rough. Thought process is how much more until the wings come off ruff. I have been beaten up pretty good at 18,000 msl in the daytime. During monsoon season even late evening, early night can be pretty tough. In summer I preferred late night, very early morning flights over any other time of day over the desert southwest.
 
Zeldman said:
If that area flown over is like around my small part of the world, Rough. Ruff. I mean it can be hang on for all it's worth because it ain't getting better rough. Thought process is how much more until the wings come off ruff. I have been beaten up pretty good at 18,000 msl in the daytime. During monsoon season even late evening, early night can be pretty tough. In summer I preferred late night, very early morning flights over any other time of day over the desert southwest.
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Thanks! Well there ya go, makes her decision a bit more understandable.
 
woodchucker said:
Salt Laker here. The TFR for the fire is still in effect. And I have no idea why she would be transiting west in that location. Staying over I-80 to Wendover is the only sensible path IMO. So sad.
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I've flown that route into Elko, NV. Bumpy ride the day I flew it.
 
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