Track Cars vs. Aviation

Lance F

Lance F

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Lance F
Based on Ted's excellent thread on his Cobra build I noticed that some other posters are or were into track/road racing. I thought I'd start a thread on that to see how many of us there are and to swap some stories.

As was said, racing, aviation or cocaine. You can only afford one. Don't know about cocaine, but for the other two that is oh so true. And as far as affording one, that means affording time just as much as money.

I started SCCA road racing looong ago. Started in Regionals in a kind of ratty G Production Spitfire. I got the bug though, bought a very well prepared G Prod Spitfire from Mother Mueller out in California and did pretty well at the National level towing to races all over the country. Got burned out.

The new activity became soaring. Got very serious at that, and Sue and I towed my Standard Cirrus to Regional and National competitions all over the country. Longest tow was to Hobbs, NM from Chicago for the Std Class Nationals out there. Did pretty well. Got burned out.

So back to road racing. I bought a Porsche 944 Turbo for Porsche Club racing in E Stock. Did this quite seriously for a number of years again towing all over the country for events. Had a good time. Did pretty well. Got burned out.

So back to aviation. Got my airplane rating. Got my instrument rating, Got my multi rating. Got lucky with some contacts and had some excellent adventures flying Lear Jets. Bought a Mooney and 5 years ago a Cessna 414. Currently I do some contract flying, some flight instruction and some personal flying. Haven't burned out yet.

If this thread keeps going, I'll poke around and find some pictures to prove the above. Anyone else?
 
I went from autocross/track days/ hill climbs to selling the racecar, getting my PPL, instrument rating, CPL and buying into a Cessna partnership. 8 years later, I haven't flown much in 3 years, sold my share in the airplane and bought my old racecar back. At least my daughter is now old enough to autocross it and it's REALLY fun watching her compete with my wife. :)

We've got a 1980 911 as well and am seriously considering a 944 for PCA club racing.

I unfortunately found WAY too much bureaucracy dealing with the FAA and really took the fun out of flying for me.
 
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Drag raced from 1983 to 2007. Picked up aviation in 2015. Kart race crew chief and head mechanic & tuner 2022/2023 which rekindled my interest in racing, this time using a steering wheel…
 
My Corvette has "Track" mode! It even has a lap timer and cameras to record while you're racing. But I won't be taking it on the track, it will never see it's true potential!
 
Started kart road racing with my son in the Work Karting Association Gold Cup in 1999 and moved to shifter karts later. After completing the Skip Barber basic/advanced school, I bought a formula car for myself then my son (14 yo at that time) and it went downhill from there. Raced mostly SCCA/NASA/Southwest Formula Mazda regional series then moved my son to the Pro Mazda series which is a ladder in the 'Road to Indy" program sponsored by Mazda. I only ran the carbon tub/sequential box/ Renesis 13B engined car in SCCA a few times a year and ran Spec Miata's at endurance events. I jumped out in 2008 to support my son on the Pro Mazda Tour. He had a lot of success but did not secure the $$$$ to move to the next rung on the ladder, Indy Lights. I had a blast but don't miss the bills too much ;).
 
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Lance F said:
…towing to races all over the country. Got burned out.

… I towed my Standard Cirrus to Regional and National competitions all over the country….Got burned out.

…towing all over the country for events. …Got burned out.
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Sounds like towing all over the country is not for you.
 
Autocrossed in college in a Fiat 850 Spider.

Ended up heading for USAF UPT, so picked up my Private on the way. Flew for a number of years. Did some instruction. Got out of flying. Raced sailboats (another "cheap" hobby :D ).

Got back into flying. Got out of flying, went racing SCCA with an SRF. And did track days in my 2002 E46 M3. Instructed (still do) at track days.

Got back into flying, bought a plane. Plan on getting back to racing, just need to fund the upgrade to SRF to Gen 3. New panel and avionics for the airplane comes first. :D
 
I have been involved in various types of motorsports for longer than I've been able to drive, mostly in the engineering/development/fabrication capacity but I've had a couple of stints as a driver too. Flying and aircraft maintenance was a natural progression from the racing activities, especially since some of the guys I raced with were also aircraft mechanics or pilots. I've been working on getting my Triumph Spitfire prepped to race (it's a long way down the priority list) but I'll likely track the Subaru in the meantime to get my fix again.
 
I started autocrossing in 1991 with a non-turbo 2nd gen RX7 and did pretty well with it for a few years. Eventually I traded it for a 300ZX, which was a better road car but wasn't nimble enough for a great autocrosser. Nevertheless, I managed to win a local championship with it and place 2nd at the Florida state championship.

Somewhere along the way I got interested in road racing. A few autox buddies had made the leap, so I took a Skip Barber course to see how much I'd like it. Turns out I loved it and got hooked. I bought a 1st gen RX7 (the one @Ted has now) and built it into an SCCA ITA / IT7 road racer. At the same time I was racing it in regional races, a good friend was racing nationals in a Spec Racer Ford. We helped each other out at races whenever our schedules didn't conflict, so I ended up trailering all over the South with him running nationals.

After a few years of road racing, I became interested in motorcycles and picked up a Kawasaki Ninja. I discovered that a fast sport bike on a winding road was about 80% of the fun of sports car racing for about 10% of the hassle and expense. Most of my racing buddies moved on to other interests, and I sort of faded away from it. A medical issue sidelined me for a couple of years and afterward I just never picked it up again.

Racing was a blast while I did it, but these days the people I knew in that world have moved on or passed away. A dear friend who crewed for me (and was a former top national driver himself) died of cancer a while back and I just never had the driving desire to get back to it. These days the airplane and the motorcycle (Triumph Daytona) are plenty for me.

Racing is one of those things that, if you hope to have any success, is extremely demanding of time and money. It can be done casually, just for fun, if you can be content with running mid-pack or so. At its heart, though, it's all about competition, and if you become a serious competitor you have to ignore the budget and buy whatever tires and parts are necessary, pay for the test days, trailer all over creation to make every race, etc., etc. Most of us only sustain it for a few years, then move on to other interests.


This pretty much says it all:

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Apparently racing is in the blood. My dad and his friend Willie Carter (in the pic below) shared a dirt-tracker back in the late 1950s / early 1960s.

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I never got into auto racing as much as I should have. I'm a huge fan and my dad races (raced?) for ages - he's trying to retire, and my grandfather raced early stock cars. The problem was I was never that good. As a kid I had the pleasure of racing "real" karts in Europe a few times. After college I did some Porsche Club stuff, periods of auto crossing (SCCA), but then life got in the way - left all of the clubs. After that I actually got into sailboat racing about 10 years go and do it competitively. And not to thread drift, but sailboat racing is about as much fun as anyone can have going that slow.

My passion, however, has always been in aviation. I never knew how to get in until a colleague of mine gave me a ride in his E55 Baron in 2018, and gave me contact info to the owner of a local flight school. From there, it's been aviation ever since. I have on occasion gotten back and had the pleasure of auto-crossing my dad's F500, flying lap around COTA, etc. We'll see what's next. I have two dependents I need to ship off before I can take too much else on.
 
Formula SAE in school, then SCCA Spec Miata until the combination of having trouble differentiating what I was doing for work vs. recreation made racing feel like work, the automotive industry downsizing of ~'08, and my divorce made me stop. A smattering of LeMons/Chumpcar/Champcar races in the early 2010s. Then the engineering side of Ford's return to (and class win of) leMans in 2016. I feel like having recreation (aviation) somewhat separate from my work activities (test tracks, racetracks, offroad, simulation, etc. - all for vehicle dynamics/brake controls development) is healthier now than it has been in the past.
 
kaiser said:
I never got into auto racing as much as I should have. I'm a huge fan and my dad races (raced?) for ages - he's trying to retire, and my grandfather raced early stock cars. The problem was I was never that good. As a kid I had the pleasure of racing "real" karts in Europe a few times. After college I did some Porsche Club stuff, periods of auto crossing (SCCA), but then life got in the way - left all of the clubs. After that I actually got into sailboat racing about 10 years go and do it competitively. And not to thread drift, but sailboat racing is about as much fun as anyone can have going that slow.

My passion, however, has always been in aviation. I never knew how to get in until a colleague of mine gave me a ride in his E55 Baron in 2018, and gave me contact info to the owner of a local flight school. From there, it's been aviation ever since. I have on occasion gotten back and had the pleasure of auto-crossing my dad's F500, flying lap around COTA, etc. We'll see what's next. I have two dependents I need to ship off before I can take too much else on.
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I have been known to say, the there is exactly the same rush of a planing hull keelboat (Laser 28) at 18 knots, a Formula Ford at 100 MPH through the paddock bend at Lime Rock (Skip Barber school on street tires) and a T-38 at 500 knots at low level (I won't say HOW low).
 
Do track cars and aviation have to be mutually exclusive?

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Spitfire SCCA Natiional Race.jpg PCA Race Road Atlanta April 12 1997.jpg

Didn't happen without pictures, right. Back in the day spending my kid's inheritance. #1 SCCA National Race G Production Triumph Spitfire at unknown track. #2 PCA Club Racing E Stock 944Turbo at Road Atlanta
 
My two favorite things are racing and flying. I raced SpecBoxster with PCA for a while before it got to be too much and I sold the car, truck, and trailer. I've since done a few AER races and I manage to squeeze in a few DE's here and there. I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that with three little kids I just don't have the time right now. I got in to flying with the idea that it's something I can do with my kids and doesn't require me to be away for 3-4 days at a time. We'll see how that ultimately turns out, as right now my boys don't particularly care to fly with me.

When I'm finally able to make my triumphant return, it'll hopefully be in a Spec Cayman or maybe even a GT3 Cup car.
 
PGas32 said:
My two favorite things are racing and flying. I raced SpecBoxster with PCA for a while before it got to be too much and I sold the car, truck, and trailer. I've since done a few AER races and I manage to squeeze in a few DE's here and there. I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that with three little kids I just don't have the time right now. I got in to flying with the idea that it's something I can do with my kids and doesn't require me to be away for 3-4 days at a time. We'll see how that ultimately turns out, as right now my boys don't particularly care to fly with me.

When I'm finally able to make my triumphant return, it'll hopefully be in a Spec Cayman or maybe even a GT3 Cup car.
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In the meantime, I recommend a good sportbike.
 
PGas32 said:
My two favorite things are racing and flying. I raced SpecBoxster with PCA for a while before it got to be too much and I sold the car, truck, and trailer. I've since done a few AER races and I manage to squeeze in a few DE's here and there. I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that with three little kids I just don't have the time right now. I got in to flying with the idea that it's something I can do with my kids and doesn't require me to be away for 3-4 days at a time. We'll see how that ultimately turns out, as right now my boys don't particularly care to fly with me.

When I'm finally able to make my triumphant return, it'll hopefully be in a Spec Cayman or maybe even a GT3 Cup car.
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With 3 small kids of my own, I can tell you that it's hard to figure out which things they'll want to do with you. My kids loved flying, I think as much because of the places we went and the puppies we were flying than the flying itself.

I don't fly anymore, But ultimately you'll figure out what the activities are that you and your kids can share. The one that we're able to do together the best is dirt biking on our property.
 
@Lance F Same corner. My gold 911 that I did a full rebuild of engine and suspension. Did one track weekend. Decided I liked flying better, sold the car after 10 years of rebuilding shortly there after.

upload_2023-6-9_19-2-33.jpeg
 
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Both my grandparents raced stock cars. The one raced at in Soldier Field when that was a thing. It skipped a generation then I I raced legend cars all over the country against a lot of current Nascar drivers. My dad then got another car for a bit and he ran, but found it more fun to watch.

Spoiler....there's a pretty cringey post race interview of 15 yr old me you stick it out. That's always when I check out.

 
That was just an invitation to scroll to the end, lol! It’s only cringy when you see yourself. That was cool.
 
Back about 25-30 years ago I got into SCCA autocross. I had a '95 RX-7 (twin turbo) and later a Panoz Roadster. That was tons of fun, I learned a lot, became a better driver, and got to drive lots of different cars at events.

But ever since I was 5 years old my true love was always aviation. I used to build & fly R/C but thought I'd never be able to fly "for real". Later I ended up living on an island so I decided, I've always loved airplanes so what the heck, I'm going to get my pilot's license. And I did, then I bought a plane that I still fly today.

I discovered that slow airplanes are more fun that fast cars (at least for me). With bigger adventures since I can combine with other things like mountain biking, and more family friendly, and more fun to share with others. I still like cars and motorcycles but any time that I would spend doing that, I spend flying instead. 15 years and 1500 hours later it hasn't gotten boring and I haven't burned out on it.
 
PGas32 said:
My two favorite things are racing and flying. I raced SpecBoxster with PCA for a while before it got to be too much and I sold the car, truck, and trailer. I've since done a few AER races and I manage to squeeze in a few DE's here and there. I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that with three little kids I just don't have the time right now. I got in to flying with the idea that it's something I can do with my kids and doesn't require me to be away for 3-4 days at a time. We'll see how that ultimately turns out, as right now my boys don't particularly care to fly with me.

When I'm finally able to make my triumphant return, it'll hopefully be in a Spec Cayman or maybe even a GT3 Cup car.
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You have boys? Would they like to take up karting? Also, maybe you can slip in a few Track Night events every year.
 
Half Fast said:
In the meantime, I recommend a good sportbike.
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FormerHangie said:
Might want to check with the wife on that. Mine made me promise not to get another one until mine were grown after I crashed the last one I had.
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The overall risk of motorcycling is often compared to general aviation. But even if the odds are overall similar, I see a key difference. When you're motorbiking on the street you depend on others. Every few seconds, a mistake by another driver can injure or kill you. Ride with your head on a swivel, like you are invisible and everyone's trying to kill you, and you reduce that risk. But you can't reduce it all that much because your safety depends on the inattentive and incompetent drivers that share the road with you.

In aviation there are far fewer situations where the other guy can injure or kill you. Your destiny and safety are much more in your own hands. Not entirely of course, but much much more so. General aviation is as safe or as dangerous as you, the pilot, make it.
 
Does "Pine Wood Derby" count ?
Have a wall with a few of my Sons cars and trophies. :)
 
I'm still new to the track/racing world, and I suppose have only relatively recently gotten to a point in life where I can appreciate watching something vs. being only able to enjoy it if I was doing it myself. I also am now at a point where I can appreciate that a lot of fun things have much more time spent in the preparation aspects vs. the doing aspects. For me, that ratio was good with flying - especially given my propensity to fly something in the range of 8-16 hours in a weekend, and enjoying it. Incidentally, this is why I instantly gravitate towards endurance racing - endurance is engrained into me as a human, it's simply part of my ethos.

Racing/track time has been one of those things where the ratio of preparation to doing is very low. For 60 minutes of track time in a track night, I'm at the track for about 4-5 hours, spend around 2.5 hours driving round trip (for Heartland Park, which is the closest to me), another hour or so dealing with hooking up the trailer, loading up the car, and reversing the process, and then whatever I spend working on the car. With many hobbies and vocations these ratios of prep vs. doing are very low, but I think especially with track time.

With my kids expressing inerest and getting older, hopefully the timing for me learning more about racing/track time as a hobby and about having a properly/fully sorted car will time well for it to be something we all enjoy. We have all of the base ingredients at this point, just time to get the recipe improved.

For a long time, I gravitated towards the idea of a single "do it all" car, a street car that I could track, but I am realizing more and more how impractical that is. A GT car (one of my favorite classes) that is truly good for Grand Touring will not be competitive or perform well on the track. The RX-7 is horrible on the street. I think at this point I've realized that a car needs to have a lane picked, so to speak, at least for my satisfaction.

And so that means I have more work to do on the RX-7 for the time being so I can post some better pictures of it in a real race. :)
 
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Ted said:
I'm still new to the track/racing world, and I suppose have only relatively recently gotten to a point in life where I can appreciate watching something vs. being only able to enjoy it if I was doing it myself. I also am now at a point where I can appreciate that a lot of fun things have much more time spent in the preparation aspects vs. the doing aspects. For me, that ratio was good with flying - especially given my propensity to fly something in the range of 8-16 hours in a weekend, and enjoying it. Incidentally, this is why I instantly gravitate towards endurance racing - endurance is engrained into me as a human, it's simply part of who I am regardless of what I'm doing.

Racing/track time has been one of those things where the ratio of preparation to doing is very low. For 60 minutes of track time in a track night, I'm at the track for about 4-5 hours, spend around 2.5 hours driving round trip (for Heartland Park, which is the closest to me), another hour or so dealing with hooking up the trailer, loading up the car, and reversing the process, and then whatever I spend working on the car. With many hobbies and vocations these ratios of prep vs. doing are very low, but I think especially with track time.

With my kids expressing inerest and getting older, hopefully the timing for me learning more about racing/track time as a hobby and about having a properly/fully sorted car will time well for it to be something we all enjoy. We have all of the base ingredients at this point, just time to get the recipe improved.

For a long time, I gravitated towards the idea of a single "do it all" car, a street car that I could track, but I am realizing more and more how impractical that is. A GT car (one of my favorite classes) that is truly good for Grand Touring will not be competitive or perform well on the track. The RX-7 is horrible on the street. I think at this point I've realized that a car needs to have a lane picked, so to speak, at least for my satisfaction.

And so that means I have more work to do on the RX-7 for the time being so I can post some better pictures of it in a real race. :)
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That preparedness was something my dad harped on. The car sits 99% of the time so it better be prepared for that 1%. The Legends cars taught me a lot about the mechanics of things. I was packing bearings and doing my own rear end gear swaps when I was 14. When I learned more I could re-jet a carburetor. Then started to search out how to lose rotating weight. Would chuck driveshaft bolts and wheel studs in the lathe to bare minimum. Because, what else is there to do when you're not at the track and the car is all set up? Take it apart to make it go faster. Caster, camber, toe, stagger, pinion angle, brake bias...list goes on.

For anyone looking into racing with the kids...I strongly suggest looking at the legends or bandolero class. They race them everywhere. Dirt, asphalt, road course. And have 4 different classes. Young lions, semi pro, pro, masters. Most local tracks have them all race together.

My dad enjoyed watching he ended up getting a second car the first season... Then decided he liked watching. Sold his car and bought another car that was the same body style as mine. So I had a backup car. Friday and Sunday ran one car. Saturday ran the other as 2 tracks a 3.58 in 4th worked better and the one liked a 4.10 in 5th better.
 
@Ted its even a worse ratio with drag racing and gets even worserer the quicker your car.

I just spent 100s of hours hands-on and 100s more researching, then testing for a 1 hour annual 160 lap go kart race. 63 karts registered, 33 qualified (we were 24th on the grid), and were 9th when we pitted on lap 90. Finished 16th due to driver fatigue and a zip tie. Rookie year.
 
There are now rental track cars. :D No prep, no trailering.

Same for racing. I started renting an SRF for a couple of race weekends. Then I bought a car, but it is handled by the CSR. It stays at his shop, I call and tell him I will be a X race on Y date, and the car there, and prepped. And they handle everything during the weekend. It costs, but it saves my time. You pay with one or the other.
 
Half Fast said:
In the meantime, I recommend a good sportbike.
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Ha, I've already been down that road! I (not my wife) have sworn off bikes until my kids are grown. Someone else will kill me on the street, or I'll kill myself on the track.

Pinecone said:
There are now rental track cars. :D No prep, no trailering.

Same for racing. I started renting an SRF for a couple of race weekends. Then I bought a car, but it is handled by the CSR. It stays at his shop, I call and tell him I will be a X race on Y date, and the car there, and prepped. And they handle everything during the weekend. It costs, but it saves my time. You pay with one or the other.
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This concept is why (in my opinion) endurance racing has gotten so popular. Many teams will rent seats for an event, requiring a driver to bring nothing more than his helmet and checkbook. You wind up getting the same amount of seat time as a normal race weekend, but you might only spend half and incur none of the hassle.
 
Pinecone said:
There are now rental track cars. :D No prep, no trailering.
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I used to have an "in" with Jim Downing's team when they ran Camel Lights and later RX-7's in the GTO category. Jim always had an inventory of older race cars he'd prep for monied guys who wanted to run the Daytona 24 or other races of their choosing.
 
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